Venting about how programs treat students

[CBG321]

Hope nobody minds I just needed to vent to people who might understand my frustration.

 

I won't mention any names but I have been disappointed in my choice of post-bacc programs but at the same time very, very grateful for the opportunity.  In addition i'm taking a summer school class elsewhere and have just gotten a bad grade on a test that I felt (as did other students) had a lot of trick questions and topics that were not covered in the lectures at all.  

 

Is anyone else frustrated that we are expected to meet these insane requirements of being absolutely perfect academically, socially, GRE scores, volunteering, job experience, personality, had enough time to foster relationships with the "right" letters of recommendation, be able to write 10 different flawless essays for 10 completely different prompts.  Etc, etc, etc.

 

I know I want to do this career more than anything, i've been in the real world and returned to school to do this career and this career only.  My stats are not bad, probably above average in most categories, but the stress we are put under to reach them is just completely insane.  I am willing to put the hard work in but since when did us working our butts off and missing an A grade by literally one question make us unworthy of pursuing this profession?  As the Professors and graduate programs tend to make us feel...

 

I know we all tell each other well it's competitive that's how it goes, but I for one will make it my secondary mission in this career to work towards changing that.  Because a 4.0 does NOT make you a good clinician by any standards!  It means you are a better test taker.  Or better at studying/memorizing.  (No offense to 4.0 students they earn those grades).  I'm just saying no it does not mean you will be better than someone who got a 3.9, or 3.7 different people have different skills and those lower GPA's might be better in the field with hands on application.

 

Most schools treat students as being so lucky to be there when we are all struggling to maintain these perfect standards.  It seems so backwards to me in a Profession that is supposed to be (and is once you enter it) all about giving back and being compassionate.  I'm just so frustrated with the attitudes of professors and faculty at this level in the field.  It is in stark contrast to how other fields treat their students, and should not be the case being what the career is meant to be and represents.  It seems to me instead of mentoring and recognizing hard work and dedication you are nothing to them unless you are in their Graduate program.  My undergrad never treated us as lesser students because we weren't yet in graduate school.  I feel like that is wrong and needs to change.  

 

Sorry for the long vent just wondering if anyone else feels this way.  I love school I always have and working harder isn't what makes me upset it is that we are treated this way and it makes the experience unpleasant.  

[g.costanza]

I can understand your frustration.  It's a tight rope.

 

I also went back to school to level after taking about six years off from academics. I was able to make straight A's in my pre-req courses, but I was under immense pressure and stress.  I had a lot on the line, and it was not an enjoyable experience. I remember taking my first quiz and making a 54. 

 

Just try and stay positive and take pride in the fact that you are trying your best and are dedicated.  Even if you fail, at least you can say you gave it 100%.  Hang in there. 

 

And to add to what you are saying, I have a friend who had a professor tell her that she would never be a SLP, because she made a "B" in his class.  Ridiculous. 

[CBG321]

Someone understands me!  Thanks it feels better knowing other people feel the same way!  Yeah and as a returning student I think we know how much we want to do this over any other options so it makes the pressure we put on ourselves huge too!

 

Thanks for the encouragement it means a lot when you're feeling extra stressed by the program and the process.

 

Exactly you hit the nail on the head with that last part.  Since when did a B become a death sentence?!  

[Yancey]

I felt the same way in undergrad and even now in grad school shaking that perfection mentality is difficult. Sometimes I feel like the grad programs still get lost in grades, competition and "weeding out" students for certain placements. It almost feels like the students are fighting against the system and have to come to terms with accepting a B (oh no it's the end of the work?!) or being completely drained, losing sight of what our field is about, and focus on the grade rather than learning. My best advice is to try and find a school that values the fundamental aspects you find important when applying for grad school. We as a field can get so caught up in perfection and sometimes that does not end in graduate school because the mentality becomes so engrained. Find a grad program that values the student and sees their program as a platform for collaboration and learning and hopefully graduate school won't feel like an extension of post bac/ undergrad. I've had a hard time coming out of the perfection mode in a field with so many type A people and professors who make it seem like grades are the be all end all - it can be so challenging! Good luck! You can do it!

[CBG321]

Thank you Yancey, I am really really hoping to get a better environment for my Graduate program.  I have a few that i'm hopeful will be exactly what i'm looking for and am doing my best to get into the ones that seem to see us as humans rather than grade making machines!

 

And that part you said about focusing soley on the grade rather than learning is exactly how I feel!  I want to learn because I want to do this for my career, however some of the structures of my classes do not allow us to do so.  I'll go in to try to learn and have to focus so much on avoiding trick questions or over-studying b/c of inconsistent tests that it really doesn't allow me to learn as much as I would like to while in undergrad.

 

And it's going to be really hard to accept the lower grades if they happen in graduate school as well, hopefully I can take a vacation before starting and relax a little lol.  Thanks for the advice and acknowledgement, i'm happy to find i'm not the only one that wishes the academic portion was a little closer to the professional environment!

[mr479]

AMEN!

Hope nobody minds I just needed to vent to people who might understand my frustration.

I won't mention any names but I have been disappointed in my choice of post-bacc programs but at the same time very, very grateful for the opportunity. In addition i'm taking a summer school class elsewhere and have just gotten a bad grade on a test that I felt (as did other students) had a lot of trick questions and topics that were not covered in the lectures at all.

Is anyone else frustrated that we are expected to meet these insane requirements of being absolutely perfect academically, socially, GRE scores, volunteering, job experience, personality, had enough time to foster relationships with the "right" letters of recommendation, be able to write 10 different flawless essays for 10 completely different prompts. Etc, etc, etc.

I know I want to do this career more than anything, i've been in the real world and returned to school to do this career and this career only. My stats are not bad, probably above average in most categories, but the stress we are put under to reach them is just completely insane. I am willing to put the hard work in but since when did us working our butts off and missing an A grade by literally one question make us unworthy of pursuing this profession? As the Professors and graduate programs tend to make us feel...

I know we all tell each other well it's competitive that's how it goes, but I for one will make it my secondary mission in this career to work towards changing that. Because a 4.0 does NOT make you a good clinician by any standards! It means you are a better test taker. Or better at studying/memorizing. (No offense to 4.0 students they earn those grades). I'm just saying no it does not mean you will be better than someone who got a 3.9, or 3.7 different people have different skills and those lower GPA's might be better in the field with hands on application.

Most schools treat students as being so lucky to be there when we are all struggling to maintain these perfect standards. It seems so backwards to me in a Profession that is supposed to be (and is once you enter it) all about giving back and being compassionate. I'm just so frustrated with the attitudes of professors and faculty at this level in the field. It is in stark contrast to how other fields treat their students, and should not be the case being what the career is meant to be and represents. It seems to me instead of mentoring and recognizing hard work and dedication you are nothing to them unless you are in their Graduate program. My undergrad never treated us as lesser students because we weren't yet in graduate school. I feel like that is wrong and needs to change.

Sorry for the long vent just wondering if anyone else feels this way. I love school I always have and working harder isn't what makes me upset it is that we are treated this way and it makes the experience unpleasant.

[mr479]

For this very reason I will not do a PhD, and if I ever change my mind, I would not teach in the U.S. I do not want to be a part of a system that gives birth to working professionals crippled by debt and exhausted.

[Jolie717]

We have it a lot better here in the US than many other countries who weed people out and don't allow certain higher education based on testing done at the high school level. Americans have the luxury of being able to go back to school to pursue a new career even much later in life. The way I see it, schools need to have a certain graduation rate in order to maintain their status and credibility.

In SLP: the graduation rate, Praxis passing rate, etc all come into play. I am guessing there is a correlation between GPA & testing scores and graduation rates. In addition the lack of spaces in programs due to lack of PhDs in the field needs to be taken into consideration. GPA and test scores offer a quick, inexpensive and simple way to rank applicants. Whether right or wrong. I myself, in studying for the GRE, am finding the questions so far removed from what likely determines a good SLP from a bad SLP that I do truly feel your pain.

[CBG321]

@Bettercallsaul

 

SERIOUSLY!  I didn't want to mention this initially but I was like how many people are going to remember how awful their under-grad was, and for some people their graduate school experience in terms of stress and lack of support.  I feel like the negative emotions associated with it are not going to encourage people to return to these programs for an extra couple years for a Phd.  Or will discourage them b/c they may remember how unfriendly some of their professors were and assume all programs are like that and say they'd rather work in another setting where the ppl are friendlier and every day isn't a competition.  

 

Supporting students helps the field and helps the profession in all regards.  

 

@Jolie717

 

I feel like to a certain point there is definitely a cut off of GPA's where a school can determine whether or not you'll be a strong enough student to succeed in Graduate school, but I do think that cut off is much lower than the competition in this program has made the actual cut off.

 

Also every school that doesn't use the GRE has indicated they don't because it was a poor indication of how students will bear in their graduate programs.  These programs tend to interview students to get that last component.  The schools that don't interview seem to rely heavily on the GRE, in my opinion just as a way to make it easier to pick people.   

 

And I really feel your pain as well on the GRE, i'm sorry how is algebra or fractions or knowing an obscure synonym for reduce going to assist my ability to treat a patient or help me think on my feet to find a creative solution to a problem...it's not haha.  They should have a subject specific test for us but they don't, and there isn't enough standardization in our undergraduate/post-bacc programs to make that work.