marks in UK vs. US MA programmes

[AlvinAiley]

Hello all. I write to ask whether professors' marks are less generous in the UK (or maybe even Europe more generally) than in the US. As an undergraduate in the US, my work virtually always achieved "A" marks. As a postgraduate student in the UK, my marks seem to be all across the board. I am having trouble figuring out whether my inconsistency is due to my own incompetence for work at a postgraduate level (and that it is simply the nature of graduate school to hold students to severe rigor), or due to the nature of grading in the US (more specifically, the severity of US grade inflation). I took graduate courses as an undergraduate and did extremely well, so I suspect that the answer is the latter; I am not sure and post, however, because I am curious about others' experiences of this matter. Is receiving a "B" in the UK mean something different than a "B" in the US? How common are "B"'s in graduate schools at each institution, respectively? Will "B"'s here foreclose my chances at a PhD, even if I achieve a first?

 

[waterbottle]

The grading scale in the UK is completely different from the US, and trying to do direct comparisons will not be easy. First of all, letter grades like A, B, C don't exist in the UK, and you can't put your 1-100 numerical grade into a letter grade straightforwardly. In the UK, the vast majority of grades will be between 50 and 75 (this is especially true in social sciences and humanities; outliers are more common in the sciences). Although the details differ a bit per university, you can generally think of it like this:

Under 50: something is seriously wrong, you didn't understand the material or assignment  

50-60 (which can be referred to as lower second class in undergrad grading or pass in grad grading, also depending on the uni): not very good although not disastrous, looks pretty bad on phd applications though 

60-70 (upper second for undergrads, merit for grads): good, middle of the road. There's a pretty big range within this for most profs. Low 60s will be looked on slightly badly for phd apps, high 60s is good but expected. 

70 and up (first class or distinction): excellent. Grades between 70 and 75 will score you points with the adcom, over 75 is very unusual so will stand out even more. 

In terms of the goals you should be setting for yourself, definitely aim for a first or distinction overall (look up the rules for getting one in your program, they differ a lot and are not always just about averages) but if you fall a bit short, don't panic, you'll still have a shot at phd programs. Having at least a 70 in any dissertation or other research project you might do is at least as important as it has most direct relevance to your skills as a phd student. 

Regarding your inconsistency in grades, that's something to pay attention to. Go talk to the professors who gave you low grades if possible. My hunch is that you might be having trouble meeting the exact requirements of the assignment or question set, which is pretty common when  people who should be able to score well fail to do so, and also very common for people changing between different national systems because the expectations can be very different. 

[hippyscientist]

The interpretation above is pretty good but I'd like to point out that it definitely varies across the board. For example my school at undergrad had the following:

Below 40 - Fail

40 - 50: You need to review this material as you haven't got a good understanding

50 - 60: Hey you're getting there, good work. (The equivalent to about an A-)

60 - 70: Your work is publishable, you're incredibly competent and you understand everything

Over 70: Unheard of. Literally our grade scheme stopped at 70. I graduated with an overall 62%, and one of my old lecturers is actually an American professor now. He said everything we had covered is equivalent to the first two years of a PhD, and he would hire any of our graduates getting over 50% in a heartbeat. Now trying to explain this to adcomms in the US is infuriating as I've got a very good degree, a good grasp on advanced concepts (I've already covered the content for my MSc - I'm basically doing it to ensure my grades translate and get some extra research experience), and am more than capable at the PhD level. They see my transcript and see high 50s - mid 60s and think somethings wrong. AGH! 

[AlvinAiley]

waterbottle, thank you so much for your response; you've responded to my every problem. And thank you, too, for your response piglet. I have a feeling that my program is more like the one waterbottle described. It sounds frustrating, but I hope your recommendation letter writers will be able to speak to the caliber of your program and the rigor with which they assess you?!

[TakeruK]

Don't forget that academia is a very international field and you will not be the first nor last applicant with a UK degree applying to the program. Professors will likely already be familiar with the UK grading scheme, and if they are not, you can count on them being smart and resourceful enough to find out for themselves instead of just assuming that everyone does things like America  There may even be several people in the department with UK degrees that they can ask for help!

 

[fuzzylogician]

^ Not only that, but your letter writers will attest to your academic excellence, both as reflected in your grades and coursework, and as reflected in your research. 

[unræd]

^ Not only that, but your letter writers will attest to your academic excellence, both as reflected in your grades and coursework, and as reflected in your research. 

Although even this, too, apparently shows a marked difference in conventions across the Atlantic!

I have a friend who used to teach at one of the Oxbridge schools in a humanities field, and he'd get an email every year that the college would send out to the tutors who were asked to write recommendation letters. It said that, basically, if the students were applying for other programs in the UK to feel free to write as they normally would, but that if they were writing to US programs, the letters would need to be just over the top hyperbole. Anything else--i.e. the standard British academic reserve in which "quite competent" is high praise--would (these emails claimed) be read as implicit criticism by American committees and tank the application, so florid and effusive is the normal American LoR tone!

[fuzzylogician]

the standard British academic reserve in which "quite competent" is high praise--would (these emails claimed) be read as implicit criticism by American committees and tank the application, so florid and effusive is the normal American LoR tone!

I've heard about this too, as in that North American professors know that their European colleagues tend to be more reserved. But yes, when I was applying to grad school I supplied all of my letter writers with an instructions sheet from some book (can't remember which) that directly addressed that issue and had some specific ideas for how to convert a "European style" letter into a "North American style" one. 

[TakeruK]

We talk about different tones of LORs a lot in my field too. I almost want to say that most people know about these differences now, but I think supplying European LOR writers with a "instructions sheet" when applying to US/Canada schools is still a very good idea

[fuzzylogician]

We talk about different tones of LORs a lot in my field too. I almost want to say that most people know about these differences now, but I think supplying European LOR writers with a "instructions sheet" when applying to US/Canada schools is still a very good idea

I should probably note that one of my letter writers was (academically) young at the time and had never written a letter for anyone applying to North American schools. Once I found that book, I figured it wouldn't hurt to just send it along with my other materials to all my letter writers.