CGS/OGS 2016 - Applying at the graduate level

[Jay's Brain]

Hey folks!

I've began my graduate career last week, and already I face the wrath of having to start applying for funding for the second year of my Master's. I received CGS-M funding this year, so I am only eligible for OGS next year (correct me quickly if I am wrong), but thought I can open this up to other Canadian students too. Out of curiosity to the mentors who have gone through this process repeatedly, did anyone find preparation for CGS/OGS to be more difficult when applying as a graduate student compared to an undergraduate student? Or was it more or less the same? Is there an expectation that the proposal for graduate students be more refined and less broad?

Any tips is appreciated. Thank you 
 

[TakeruK]

I was in the same shoes as you! CGS-M for my first year of my Masters and I got an OGS for the second year. You are right that this is the only award at this level which you are eligible for.

I found the preparation for the OGS easier than the application for my CGS-M. However, I did not apply to OGS as an undergraduate because I was from BC and I didn't even know what the OGS was (in 2009, when I would have had to apply, the OGS was still an award you applied directly to the Ontario government, not each school). 

I do agree that your OGS proposal should be more refined/specific than your CGS-M proposal. But after going through the process of writing an undergraduate thesis and beginning grad school, I think this is a lot easier and less daunting than when I was writing the CGS-M proposal. However, that might have been mostly me having zero exposure to this level of writing when I applied to NSERC awards so even a tiny bit of experience since then made a giant difference!

I also think that in general, the OGS is less competitive than the CGS-M, so if you were successful in getting the CGS-M as an undergraduate, then the OGS should be attainable. Don't let that affect how hard you work on the OGS application of course, but if it helps relieve a little bit of stress to know that, then keep it in mind! 

Finally, another advantage of applying to the OGS vs. the CGS-M is that when you were applying to the CGS-M, you didn't really have an advisor lined up and invested in you (yet). But now, you have a graduate supervisor (I think?) and if you get this OGS, it would greatly benefit your supervisor as that's money they don't have to pay you. So, while you must write the proposal yourself, your supervisor is an excellent resource to help brainstorm thoughts, discuss ideas, and get feedback in writing a strong proposal. When I wrote my CGS-M proposal, I did contact potential advisors to help generate ideas but I got a lot more support when I was applying for my OGS and my supervisor was just down the hall and has a big incentive to help!

[Jay's Brain]

I was in the same shoes as you! CGS-M for my first year of my Masters and I got an OGS for the second year. You are right that this is the only award at this level which you are eligible for.

I found the preparation for the OGS easier than the application for my CGS-M. However, I did not apply to OGS as an undergraduate because I was from BC and I didn't even know what the OGS was (in 2009, when I would have had to apply, the OGS was still an award you applied directly to the Ontario government, not each school). 

I do agree that your OGS proposal should be more refined/specific than your CGS-M proposal. But after going through the process of writing an undergraduate thesis and beginning grad school, I think this is a lot easier and less daunting than when I was writing the CGS-M proposal. However, that might have been mostly me having zero exposure to this level of writing when I applied to NSERC awards so even a tiny bit of experience since then made a giant difference!

I also think that in general, the OGS is less competitive than the CGS-M, so if you were successful in getting the CGS-M as an undergraduate, then the OGS should be attainable. Don't let that affect how hard you work on the OGS application of course, but if it helps relieve a little bit of stress to know that, then keep it in mind! 

Finally, another advantage of applying to the OGS vs. the CGS-M is that when you were applying to the CGS-M, you didn't really have an advisor lined up and invested in you (yet). But now, you have a graduate supervisor (I think?) and if you get this OGS, it would greatly benefit your supervisor as that's money they don't have to pay you. So, while you must write the proposal yourself, your supervisor is an excellent resource to help brainstorm thoughts, discuss ideas, and get feedback in writing a strong proposal. When I wrote my CGS-M proposal, I did contact potential advisors to help generate ideas but I got a lot more support when I was applying for my OGS and my supervisor was just down the hall and has a big incentive to help!

I was fortunate enough to have had a advisor work with me when applying to CGS-M last year, which is probably the reason why it was accepted (ironically at a different institution that I ultimately pursued with his blessing). And yes, I will have a graduate advisor during my Master's so it'll definitely be a bit more convenient! I'll need to write a prospectus for my Master's thesis anyway, so I assume that it makes sense to write something concrete for OGS which I can later modify. Since it's going to be on my project that I'm dedicating to for the next two years, it'll hopefully come a bit more naturally than when I was applying for CGS-M. 

Thanks as always TakeruK! Always appreciative reading your answers whether it be for my questions or for others!

[clem5]

I'm also a CGS-M recipient applying to OGS this year, and I'm wondering if there's any reason for me not to use the same proposal I applied with last year? I don't see why there would be any issue, given that, well, presumably I'm still working on the same thing I was last year. But I did already use it to win the CGS-M, so is submitting a proposal that is word-for-word the same questionable at all?

[TakeruK]

Why would you submit the same proposal, word-for-word? It's a year later now and some things must have changed and improved. Submitting the exact same proposal means throwing away an opportunity to improve it and make yourself more competitive. 

[clem5]

I just started in September, so I'll certainly try to improve it if I can, but truthfully I don't think a whole lot has changed in terms of what I want to do (at this point).

I guess I was just thinking, "If it's not broken, don't fix it" and wondering if I was even allowed to re-submit the same thing.

[TakeruK]

You probably won't have to make drastic changes. But if I understood your situation, you wrote the CGS-M proposal a year ago, before you were a graduate student and while you may have been doing completely different research. I wrote my CGS-M proposal based on 10 or so hours of background reading and research work. I feel like even a week as a graduate student and getting a start on your project is enough to give some new insight and perspective! Depending on your field, maybe some methods, numbers, references, etc. can be updated.

I don't think it would be a huge problem if it was exactly the same (after all, you're right, it worked before) but it's also very likely the same people that judged your CGS-M will be judging your OGS application (since both awards are judged at the University level only). Maybe they won't remember reading the same thing, but maybe they will! The OGS is a $15,000 award, so it's worth a few hours to see if it can use a tune-up, in my opinion!

[clem5]

You make some good points (as Jay's Brain said, "as always"! ). I’m in a program that’s largely course-based in the first year, so I haven’t been working on my own research quite yet. Still, it’s true I have new insights on my project so I will give it some serious thought and see if I can incorporate them into the proposal. Thanks!

[TKYU]

On 10/15/2015, 7:56:06, clem5 said:

I'm also a CGS-M recipient applying to OGS this year, and I'm wondering if there's any reason for me not to use the same proposal I applied with last year? I don't see why there would be any issue, given that, well, presumably I'm still working on the same thing I was last year. But I did already use it to win the CGS-M, so is submitting a proposal that is word-for-word the same questionable at all?

 

On 10/15/2015, 9:05:11, TakeruK said:

Why would you submit the same proposal, word-for-word? It's a year later now and some things must have changed and improved. Submitting the exact same proposal means throwing away an opportunity to improve it and make yourself more competitive. 

If I'm an undergraduate student applying to the OGS for my first time, would it be acceptable to use my research proposal for the CGS-M in my OGS applications since I haven't had any experience in the graduate level yet to revise the research proposal?

[TakeruK]

1 hour ago, TKYU said:

If I'm an undergraduate student applying to the OGS for my first time, would it be acceptable to use my research proposal for the CGS-M in my OGS applications since I haven't had any experience in the graduate level yet to revise the research proposal?

I think this would be okay, because it's unlikely anything changed in the few months between these two deadlines! I don't remember perfectly since this was about 4-5 years ago now, but I don't recall any specifically different things in the prompts for the OGS and CGS-M applications. I also did not apply for OGS and CGS-M in the same year (I only applied to CGS-M during undergrad because I was outside of Ontario and did not even know about the OGS---in British Columbia in 2009, the equivalent award is automatically evaluated based on your application materials, not additional applications!) However, it would be a good idea to read through the CGS-M instructions and doing a final check to see if there is anything you can tweak. 

[TKYU]

2 hours ago, TakeruK said:

I think this would be okay, because it's unlikely anything changed in the few months between these two deadlines! I don't remember perfectly since this was about 4-5 years ago now, but I don't recall any specifically different things in the prompts for the OGS and CGS-M applications. I also did not apply for OGS and CGS-M in the same year (I only applied to CGS-M during undergrad because I was outside of Ontario and did not even know about the OGS---in British Columbia in 2009, the equivalent award is automatically evaluated based on your application materials, not additional applications!) However, it would be a good idea to read through the CGS-M instructions and doing a final check to see if there is anything you can tweak. 

That's a relieve to hear! Thanks!

[Oshawott]

I didn't get CGS-M last year (didn't send an application to my current school since I was limited to 5...) nor OGS.

I'm finding CGS-M to be easier now that I'm in grad school. I know exactly what research I'm doing, how to approach it, and can argue why my school's resources are the best fit for this research (especially since I developed this idea keeping in mind what the school can provide me).

I'm hoping I can get a CGS, I'm just worried because my cGPA wasn't the greatest, and while my last 20 credits puts me in the A-range, I didn't really have a full course load (but took summer courses) and deferred taking my last credit in my last year. I was juggling various other research commitments, and long-story-short, personal issues came up and I made the call to reduce my work load rather than let all my course work (and most importantly, research) suffer, but I feel like making a mature decision to make the best of an unfortunate situation is going to be held against me given CGS's criteria for "academic excellence":

Indicators of Academic Excellence:

• Academic record (first class average)
• Scholarships and awards held
• Duration of previous studies
• Type of program and courses pursued
• Course load
• Relative standing (if available)

The only thing I'm confident in these criteria is my "academic record" and "relative standing"

Edited November 7, 2015 by Oshawott

[Jimtastic]

Sorry to piggyback on this thread, but I'm an undergrad who is thinking about applying for CGS-M funding and I'm a bit confused by how it's structured (and you all seem to know what's going on).

Given that I've only really begun to contact profs and am in discussion with a few, how the heck does the research proposal work? If I'm not sure yet of where I want to go to grad school (and the field will vary a bit), how can I used one proposed project to apply to five different graduate programs? Until now I was under the assumption that you should first identify a professor you want to work with then craft an application based on their proposed research projects.

If someone could shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated!