Ph.D Programs in Higher Ed & Concerns

[Psycherd12]

Hey everyone--

For this interested in pursuing or are already pursuing a doctorate in Higher Ed, I have a question: Is it a bloated field? I'm really interested in becoming an Administrator at a university but have received a few warnings about how the field is too full of highly qualified applicants who can't find jobs. What has been your experience? Or do you have any insight? No one wants to pursue a higher degree in a field that will lead to little job prospects, of course, so I figured this was a relevant issue Any insight, advice, etc. would be appreciated!

Also, have you heard anything about the University of Minnesota's and the University of Wisconsin-Madison's Higher Ed programs?? As you can tell I want to stay in the Midwest.

Thanks!

[ZeChocMoose]

Higher Ed is one of those disciplines where a lot of schools have departments (I imagine) because there is a demand from students and they are relatively cheap to run compared to other programs in the academy i.e. engineering and other STEM disciplines.  It does mean that there tends to be a huge range of quality among the programs. 

You mention that you want to be a higher ed administrator, but that is a pretty vague job title that can encompass a lot of different areas. Which specific area do you want to go into (e.g. student activities, academic affairs, admissions, residential life, institutional research, etc.)?  Usually to become an administrator you don't need a PhD - just a master's degree and relevant experience.  You may need a PhD eventually if you are looking to be the director of an office or a vice president level administrator especially at large research intensive universities, but you are not going to jump out of a PhD program and into one of those positions unless you came in with pretty substantial amount of experience before the PhD.

To get into a competitive PhD program in higher ed - you'll typically need a master's degree and a good 3-5 years of experience at least somewhat related to education.  Do you have this?  If not, it would be better for you to look at master's programs.

To answer your question about employability -- I am currently in a well regarded Higher Ed PhD program.  As far as I have seen (being here 4+ years now), PhD students that want to go the administration route do well on the job market.  In fact, some decide to leave after they reach candidacy and finish their dissertations from afar because they either get recruited by different organizations or because a dream position opens up and they just can't pass it up.  We do tend to have small cohorts (8 - 10 people) and PhD students come in with good amount of higher ed experience.  If you decide to go to a non-selective Higher Ed PhD program -- I am not sure how well they do on the job market especially if their experience is weak to begin with.    

[Psycherd12]

Thank you so much for your reply, I really appreciate all of the insight and thought that you put into that in order to help me out

As for what specific job I want eventually, I would love to be head honcho of admissions or student affairs. 

As for what kind of background/education I have: I'm currently in a Counseling and Student Personnel Psychology master's program in the Midwest. I'm also a Graduate Research Assistant at the Medical School (I do a lot of evaluative/stats work) which I hope will help boost my resume. In addition, as part of my program requirements, I have just started a 700-hour internship at a small liberal arts university close to the big university I'm attending. I'll be interning in their Career Development Center and working 1 on 1 with students. I also received a fellowship over the summer. So, in short, I'm hoping I have enough research experience. But the 700-hour internship and the GRA position at the medical school are the only substantial experiences I've had in Higher Ed so far. I'm only 23 and started my master's right from undergrad. It may be relevant to note that I was also a RA and a TA at my undergrad institution. 

I'm really interested in hearing more about the program you're in and how you're liking it. Is it in the Midwest by chance? My partner is currently here and we've already been doing distance as I pursue my master's. Not sure I would want to do anything longer unfortunately. It is tempting, though, considering the job prospects your program has. Have you heard anything about UW-Madison or University of Minnesota? Those are the two schools I've been considering. But yeah I would absolutely love to get some insight on your program-- sounds amazing! Let me know And once again thanks SOOOO much for your help!!!

[ZeChocMoose]

You sound like you are off to a good start -- but you'll need about 3 - 5 years of full-time experience to get into a competitive Higher Ed PhD program.  The typical PhD student for Higher Education is usually in his/her late 20's to early 40's. (I was 29 when I started my program and I was one of the younger students in my cohort.) It is not a discipline where you go straight through (unlike other social science disciplines) as the field will expect that you'll have a decent amount of professional experience to draw from in the classroom and to shape your research interests.  It is also would be kinda odd to be job searching for an admin job with a PhD and no full-time experience.  I imagine you would have a hard time finding a job as the field really values experience! I would suggest to try to get a job in admissions and see how you like it before deciding that you want to go back for a PhD.  It can be a long haul.

 

I'm really interested in hearing more about the program you're in and how you're liking it. Is it in the Midwest by chance? My partner is currently here and we've already been doing distance as I pursue my master's. Not sure I would want to do anything longer unfortunately. It is tempting, though, considering the job prospects your program has. Have you heard anything about UW-Madison or University of Minnesota? Those are the two schools I've been considering. But yeah I would absolutely love to get some insight on your program-- sounds amazing! Let me know And once again thanks SOOOO much for your help!!!

Sure, send me a PM and I'll answer your questions about my program.

I'm not familiar with the two programs that you mention.  I know much more about the higher ed programs either on the East or West Coasts because I applied to a bunch of them, lived on both coasts, and worked with graduates of those programs. For the Midwest, I am only familiar with some programs in Michigan, Illinois, and Indiana because I know people who have attended or are attending them and/or I have met graduate students from those programs at academic conferences.  

The important thing at the PhD level though is you want to apply to programs that have faculty members doing the type of research that you want to do so you can learn from them.  Ideally, you'll want a couple faculty with similar research interests so you are not in a difficult place if that faculty member decides to leave/retire. In both of my master's and PhD programs, faculty members have left/retired.  You'll be miserable and have a really difficult time trying to complete a dissertation without someone who knows your literature well enough to supervise your dissertation.  And you'll want a faculty member who uses similar research methods as you do.  These don't have to be the same people, but both are really important for a happy PhD student.

[Psycherd12]

You sound like you are off to a good start -- but you'll need about 3 - 5 years of full-time experience to get into a competitive Higher Ed PhD program.  The typical PhD student for Higher Education is usually in his/her late 20's to early 40's. (I was 29 when I started my program and I was one of the younger students in my cohort.) It is not a discipline where you go straight through (unlike other social science disciplines) as the field will expect that you'll have a decent amount of professional experience to draw from in the classroom and to shape your research interests.  It is also would be kinda odd to be job searching for an admin job with a PhD and no full-time experience.  I imagine you would have a hard time finding a job as the field really values experience! I would suggest to try to get a job in admissions and see how you like it before deciding that you want to go back for a PhD.  It can be a long haul.

First and foremost, YOU ARE AMAZING. I am really thankful for all of your guidance as I try to navigate all of this...you clearly know MUCH more than I do and I'm really glad that you're here to help

I do have one quick question referencing what you said above-- could someone make the argument that you'll gain experience through a Ph.D. program? Or are mid-level to upper Higher Ed jobs looking for full-time experience? The reason I ask is because my masters has really provided me a wealth of experience that takes up a good chunk of my resume now. I also ask because I was SO set on attending a doctoral program right after my masters because it's something I really want to do. But perhaps gaining experience wouldn't be a bad route to go, especially if I'm sure I want to do the administration route Just figured I would ask! I'll also PM you later today to hear more about your program!

[ZeChocMoose]

 

I do have one quick question referencing what you said above-- could someone make the argument that you'll gain experience through a Ph.D. program? Or are mid-level to upper Higher Ed jobs looking for full-time experience? The reason I ask is because my masters has really provided me a wealth of experience that takes up a good chunk of my resume now. I also ask because I was SO set on attending a doctoral program right after my masters because it's something I really want to do. But perhaps gaining experience wouldn't be a bad route to go, especially if I'm sure I want to do the administration route Just figured I would ask! I'll also PM you later today to hear more about your program!

The hiring committee for a mid-level to upper level job will be looking for a skillset that you can't gain in part-time student positions.  Don't get me wrong - student positions are great for introducing you to the field and giving you a taste of particular subareas of higher ed. However, hiring managers for mid-level to upper level positions will want to see that you have a track record of making difficult and successful decisions that affect the unit, supervising professional staff members, working with faculty and staff members in other units, and managing a budget for at least a project - if not a subsection of the unit. Part-time student positions just don't have that level of authority attached to them - nor should they!  First and foremost you are a student and since most offices understand that and the fact that you come to the position with limited experience, they set up those positions to be fairly straightforward and manageable while you are attending school full-time.

At the doctoral level - the assistantships tend to be either research or teaching positions which neither one is going to help you gain more administrative experience.  Sometimes you can get a graduate assistantship as a part-time staff member, but generally you are considered to be entry level and not given the authority you need to gain the experience that mid-level to upper level hiring managers are looking for.

What you might want to do is look into working full-time while doing an EdD part-time.  In EdDs, you tend to learn a lot more practical skills than you would in a PhD that is more applicable for administration.  Honestly, if you don't want to be an independent researcher or at least train to become one, completing a PhD might not be worth it.