2nd MA in Philosophy

[Needle in the Hay]

Hi all,

So I have an MA in Philosophy from University College London and I'm currently enrolled in a 2nd MA (also in Philosophy) at Georgia State University. I decided to enroll because I thought it would further my PhD prospects, but since enrolling I've had some doubts about whether this is really true. There is not much likelihood that I will drop out of my program at GSU at this point, but I would still like to know how much it will really help me in my applications to have this degree (and to have done well and gotten strong letters). 

Here are the reasons I thought it might likely help:

-GSU's MA has excellent PhD placement records.

-the UCL MA is a one year program and GSU is a two year program.

-UK MA's are arguably a slightly different kind of tradition/ degree than US MA's. By my understanding, UK MA's are not seen as primarily geared towards preparing one for further graduate study or a career in the subject. They are rather seen as primarily offering intellectual fulfillment in particular subjects and also as (perhaps incidentally or secondarily) having some prospect of helping students in applications to further graduate study (I am open to correction on this point). I believe this is part of what differentiates MA's from MPhil degrees in the UK. 

-GSU also has a lot of great faculty who work on areas related to my own who would be able to help me produce a strong writing sample. I consider this as somewhat of a lesser consideration because I also feel that I could produce a strong writing sample if I were not in the program and asked for help from my undergrad UNC professors.

Any insights would be very much appreciated.

Thank you,

Theoldpond

 

[philstudent1991]

Hi all,

So I have an MA in Philosophy from University College London and I'm currently enrolled in a 2nd MA (also in Philosophy) at Georgia State University. I decided to enroll because I thought it would further my PhD prospects, but since enrolling I've had some doubts about whether this is really true. There is not much likelihood that I will drop out of my program at GSU at this point, but I would still like to know how much it will really help me in my applications to have this degree (and to have done well and gotten strong letters). 

Here are the reasons I thought it might likely help:

-GSU's MA has excellent PhD placement records.

-the UCL MA is a one year program and GSU is a two year program.

-UK MA's are arguably a slightly different kind of tradition/ degree than US MA's. By my understanding, UK MA's are not seen as primarily geared towards preparing one for further graduate study or a career in the subject. They are rather seen as primarily offering intellectual fulfillment in particular subjects and also as (perhaps incidentally or secondarily) having some prospect of helping students in applications to further graduate study (I am open to correction on this point). I believe this is part of what differentiates MA's from MPhil degrees in the UK. 

-GSU also has a lot of great faculty who work on areas related to my own who would be able to help me produce a strong writing sample. I consider this as somewhat of a lesser consideration because I also feel that I could produce a strong writing sample if I were not in the program and asked for help from my undergrad UNC professors.

Any insights would be very much appreciated.

Thank you,

Theoldpond

 

So the question is will the degree from GSU help? I'd say probably. Degrees from the UK may be tough for American ad comms to evaluate, whereas a degree from Georgia State is more widely recognized. I think that strong letters from an MA program are immeasurably more helpful than letters from places without a strong tradition in philosophy. 

That said, even the top MA programs can have a wide range of outcomes. So at GSU for instance, last year's cohort had a student accepted at Yale, Michigan, UNC, Arizona and Brown. Other students in the same cohort were shut out. So the degree itself is not a credential you can ride to PhD admissions glory; you have to put a lot of work into your seminars and getting a seminar paper (most likely) into writing sample condition, getting good letters, making good grades, etc. While doing well at a program like Georgia State is good evidence that a candidate can perform at a high level in a PhD program, a poor performance at a place like Georgia State would be decisive evidence that they cannot handle the workload and rigor of a PhD. 

I also think that being in a philosophical environment is better for helping motivate you in working on your sample and apps than being on your own. You will get more feedback from faculty that actually have an obligation to you than those from your undergrad, who frankly have more pressing things to do than helping former students with their work. 

[Needle in the Hay]

Thanks for your helpful input on the subject, philstudent1991. I think you are probably right that the notoriety of the program will help me and that it will also help to have more extensive help from faculty in writing my sample. 

I should note that UCL actually does have a very strong tradition in philosophy; it is ranked about 6th in the UK on philosophical gourmet, for whatever that is worth. I'm not sure if that changes your perspective, but I'm inclined to think and hope that most of what you say still stands.

Thanks again.

[philstudent1991]

Thanks for your helpful input on the subject, philstudent1991. I think you are probably right that the notoriety of the program will help me and that it will also help to have more extensive help from faculty in writing my sample. 

I should note that UCL actually does have a very strong tradition in philosophy; it is ranked about 6th in the UK on philosophical gourmet, for whatever that is worth. I'm not sure if that changes your perspective, but I'm inclined to think and hope that most of what you say still stands.

Thanks again.

Sorry, I didn't mean that UCL didn't have one. I guess I was lumping in those schools that don't and those schools that are not as well understood in the US. Yes, I think most of what I said is right  

[maxhgns]

The most tangible advantage--perhaps the only real one, really--is that your work will (presumably!) be much improved, and you'll be more informed and professionalized. That will be reflected in your writing sample,in the way you present yourself in the cover letter, in the things your references can say about you, and in your choice of programs. Once in a PhD program, you might also find that you've got a more developed background than other incoming students, and having a developed background helps a lot in those first few years.

[ianfaircloud]

Reasons that MAs help some people get into strong PhD programs, roughly in descending order of weight:

1. Better letters (because faculty are better known and understand how to write letters that help in the process, because you cultivate a few valuable relationships with good philosophers)

2. Better writing sample (because more time to prepare it, because a community of faculty and student help, because more mature understanding of field/area of interest)

3. Credential (because you came from lesser known institution, because the MA is a well known institution, because the MA shows a different level of seriousness in the candidate)

4. Help with application (because you have a community of people who can give better guidance)

5. Other factors that are much less important: strong showing on the transcript (a 4.0 on the MA transcript); actual increased understanding/become a better student of philosophy; time to do better on the GRE

And then there are other reasons to do the MA that have nothing to do with getting into a strong PhD program:

1. Study philosophy at a high level

2. Give yourself time to consider the range of career options available to you; decide whether philosophy is right for you

3. Teach (as an adjunct professor at a community college, at a high school, etc.)

 

[Needle in the Hay]

Thanks to all for your helpful input! Actually, Ian, I think 1- 5 on your "ways MAs help with PhD applications list" probably all apply in some way and to varying degrees in my case. 1- 3 on your "other reasons to get an MA" probably all apply to some degree in my case too.

Maxhgns I think you raise a very valuable point as well.

Thanks again, all! I'm feeling better about my situation now in part thanks to your advice.