Chances for an international student to get into phd prgram with no philosophical background?

[Johannes]

Hi guys

I'm a student from China now planning to apply for programs starting in 2016 fall. My major is german studies (but I'm much more into analytic philosophy). Due to some policies of my college the grades recalculated into GPA look bad.

My toefl score is 107 and I'm now preparing for GRE and writing sample.

Are there any chances for me to get into any decent phd programs, or I should just give up phd programs and apply for MA programs?

Are there any MA programs with funding recommended?

I'm feeling extremely stressed out and desperate these days and I would really appreciate any help and advice.

Areas of interests: Language & Mind, Metaethics

Edited October 7, 2015 by Johannes

[maxhgns]

What do you mean by "no background"? If you've really got none, then you've got virtually no chance. If you've taken some courses, the chances get better, and if your work in German bordered closely on philosophy, then they're better too. FWIW, it's not the 'international' part that's the problem, it's the question of background (and that may not be as hopeless as you think). You'll definitely want a writing sample that's in philosophy, and you'll want your references to be able to speak to your suitability and self-study (if that's what it was).

 

You should also think about getting an MA in philosophy before trying to apply to PhD programs. For one thing, it's important to get some kind of background in the subject to make sure you're a competitive applicant, and so that you don't find yourself having to learn all the basics as you start your PhD. But for another, your experience of academic philosophy may not match up to your experience of it as an independent study, and an MA at least introduces you to some of those aspects.

[Johannes]

What do you mean by "no background"? If you've really got none, then you've got virtually no chance. If you've taken some courses, the chances get better, and if your work in German bordered closely on philosophy, then they're better too. FWIW, it's not the 'international' part that's the problem, it's the question of background (and that may not be as hopeless as you think). You'll definitely want a writing sample that's in philosophy, and you'll want your references to be able to speak to your suitability and self-study (if that's what it was).

 

You should also think about getting an MA in philosophy before trying to apply to PhD programs. For one thing, it's important to get some kind of background in the subject to make sure you're a competitive applicant, and so that you don't find yourself having to learn all the basics as you start your PhD. But for another, your experience of academic philosophy may not match up to your experience of it as an independent study, and an MA at least introduces you to some of those aspects.

Thank you so much for your advice. :)

Yes, I've been self-studying ever since I found out that we couldn't change major here. I've taken a few blow-off electives on philosophy. They didn't in effect help me study philosophy, but I guess it's good to have them in the transcripts.

We don't really have a philosophy department here, so my references don't really teach philosophy.(antropology,  linguistics and literature)

Will that be a problem?

We do have a "Marxism School" here in which some of the professors teach "philosophy", should I get at least one of them to write a rec letter?

[philstudent1991]

To get into a PhD, you will need to have background in philosophy, including upper level coursework in philosophy and letters of recommendation from philosophy faculty that have worked with you. There are some good, funded MA programs that might suit your interests. Northern Illinois University has people that do mind and language, and Georgia State University has faculty that do Marx and German philosophy. 

[Johannes]

To get into a PhD, you will need to have background in philosophy, including upper level coursework in philosophy and letters of recommendation from philosophy faculty that have worked with you. There are some good, funded MA programs that might suit your interests. Northern Illinois University has people that do mind and language, and Georgia State University has faculty that do Marx and German philosophy. 

Thank you so much!

What about Tufts and Brandeis? I love Boston.

Are their programs funded?

[Cecinestpasunphilosophe]

Have you considered doing a second BA State-side? From what I've seen, a lot of programs will be willing to offer you at least a year's worth of transfer credits, which would mean a BA would take 2-3 years (depending on your workload, summer courses etc.), and would give you a chance to meaningfully study philosophy in a formal academic setting. 

I don't want to undervalue the benefits of self-studying philosophy, nor say that going straight into an MA or Ph.D. program without much formal philosophical training is impossible... but I can't really imagine trying to dive into an MA workload without at least a couple solid years of philosophical experience behind me. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. 

[Johannes]

Have you considered doing a second BA State-side? From what I've seen, a lot of programs will be willing to offer you at least a year's worth of transfer credits, which would mean a BA would take 2-3 years (depending on your workload, summer courses etc.), and would give you a chance to meaningfully study philosophy in a formal academic setting. 

I don't want to undervalue the benefits of self-studying philosophy, nor say that going straight into an MA or Ph.D. program without much formal philosophical training is impossible... but I can't really imagine trying to dive into an MA workload without at least a couple solid years of philosophical experience behind me. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. 

Thank you for the advice ：）

But for all I know, BA programs rarely offer financial aid, right?

My family has already been too supportive on my decision to apply for programs of  philosophy in English-speaking world, I don't want to double the load on their shoulders.

Studying philosophy is a crazy idea during the current study-abroad fever in China, as you may notice, most of them go to engineering or business...

[ExponentialDecay]

But for all I know, BA programs rarely offer financial aid, right?

 

If you're hoping that MAs will offer financial aid to international students, your hope is misplaced. If you are a good student, it will be much easier to get funded in a US BA program as an international student (it's still not at all easy, but many people do it). However, from what I understand, you are about to graduate with a BA, which will make getting a second funded BA in the States difficult-to-impossible. I have a few friends who came to the states after having done some years at university and basically started over at community college, but none of their university years back home officially counted for anything, of course. It's not very realistic for a student with a degree from a third country to make it into a PhD in the west without doing time at a western educational institution first, especially in the humanities, even if they are an exceptional student and they're not changing fields, and in that light, your situation is even more precarious. In general, every international admissions question needs a bespoke answer. I would dig around alumni from your university or friends or mentors and see if anyone went on to a PhD in the humanities in America, and ask them for advice. That will be far more valuable than anything that anybody here can give you.

[Johannes]

 

 

If you're hoping that MAs will offer financial aid to international students, your hope is misplaced. If you are a good student, it will be much easier to get funded in a US BA program as an international student (it's still not at all easy, but many people do it). However, from what I understand, you are about to graduate with a BA, which will make getting a second funded BA in the States difficult-to-impossible. I have a few friends who came to the states after having done some years at university and basically started over at community college, but none of their university years back home officially counted for anything, of course. It's not very realistic for a student with a degree from a third country to make it into a PhD in the west without doing time at a western educational institution first, especially in the humanities, even if they are an exceptional student and they're not changing fields, and in that light, your situation is even more precarious. In general, every international admissions question needs a bespoke answer. I would dig around alumni from your university or friends or mentors and see if anyone went on to a PhD in the humanities in America, and ask them for advice. That will be far more valuable than anything that anybody here can give you.

Thank you so much.

Actually a friend from Tsinghua University（if you happen to know it）who is now applying for a PhD program in English literature did gave me some advice. She's got a lot of help from her alumni who are now in great PhD programs in English literature. I find her advice too optimistic and our situations have not so much in common（Tsinghua is far better than my university, she's not changing fields and she's got great rec letters）.

 

 

.

 

 

[philstudent1991]

Thank you so much!

What about Tufts and Brandeis? I love Boston.

Are their programs funded?

I haven't attended either, but my understanding is that they are not funded. Brandeis offers some tuition remission I think. What I mean by funded is full tuition remission plus a living stipend. I think it would be unwise to attend an unfunded MA, except in special circumstances (independently wealthy, for example). 

[Johannes]

I haven't attended either, but my understanding is that they are not funded. Brandeis offers some tuition remission I think. What I mean by funded is full tuition remission plus a living stipend. I think it would be unwise to attend an unfunded MA, except in special circumstances (independently wealthy, for example). 

That's extremely helpful. ：)

I'll apply for Northern Illinois University

[maxhgns]

FWIW, I do know a few people who got into PhD programs despite majoring and minoring in other fields. One did his UG degree in history, another in mathematics and physics, and the other in political theory. There's no harm in trying, especially if you've got a strong writing sample in philosophy.

[Johannes]

FWIW, I do know a few people who got into PhD programs despite majoring and minoring in other fields. One did his UG degree in history, another in mathematics and physics, and the other in political theory. There's no harm in trying, especially if you've got a strong writing sample in philosophy.

Thank you

I guess I'll just do my best and wish me good luck.

[philstudent1991]

I guess I'll just do my best and wish me good luck.

That's where I've come to in my admissions quest as well. So many things to think about that maybe it's best to tune it all out and just do your work and hope. Yet here I am on gradcafe lol.