UCSD Literature PhD Question

[caught_between]

Hello All -

I had a question about UCSD's Literature PhD program. I just recently decided that I would like to apply for the PhD program, and I live in San Diego, so I thought an obvious choice would be UCSD. Their graduate Literature program is listed as #41 out of 100 on US News & World Report. However, their admission standards do not seem to be very stringent. On their website, their qualifications are as follows:

Minimum 3.0 GPA

GRE scores (scores for the general test only. Scores must be from an exam you have taken within the past three years.)

TOEFL score (if you are an international student)

Working knowledge of a second language and its literature

25 page writing sample (minimum) - multiple samples totaling at least 25 pages acceptable

3 letters of recommendation (minimum)

When browsing the FAQs, I also discovered that they do not require the GRE Analytical and they also do not require a bachelor's degree in literature, english, etc (although, of course, having taken some of these upper level courses is advisable). This sounds kind of strange to me because San Diego State University (SDSU) requires both the GRE Analytical AND at least 24 s.h. of upper division lit/english courses - all this just for their master's program. Is UCSD below average in terms of acceptance standards, or is this typical of PhD vs. Masters?

To give you an idea of my stats, they are fairly average. I will graduate in May 2010 with my bachelor's degree in business with a minor in english, with an expected GPA of 3.25. I will have 3-4 solid letters of recommendation and have a good pool of writing samples to submit. On the SATs (many years ago) I got a 650v. I know the GRE is much different, but just to give you an idea since I haven't taken a standardized test since then. As far as the language requirement, I am conversational in Spanish and am average at being able to read it. I am not familiar with Spanish lit, but I'm sure within the timeframe of May 2010 and August 2011 (when I would presumably begin the program), I could become more fluent and familiar with the lit. Does it sound like I have a chance at admission to the program?

Thanks much,

Sarah

[sustain81080]

Hello All -

I had a question about UCSD's Literature PhD program. I just recently decided that I would like to apply for the PhD program, and I live in San Diego, so I thought an obvious choice would be UCSD. Their graduate Literature program is listed as #41 out of 100 on US News & World Report. However, their admission standards do not seem to be very stringent. On their website, their qualifications are as follows:

Minimum 3.0 GPA

GRE scores (scores for the general test only. Scores must be from an exam you have taken within the past three years.)

TOEFL score (if you are an international student)

Working knowledge of a second language and its literature

25 page writing sample (minimum) - multiple samples totaling at least 25 pages acceptable

3 letters of recommendation (minimum)

When browsing the FAQs, I also discovered that they do not require the GRE Analytical and they also do not require a bachelor's degree in literature, english, etc (although, of course, having taken some of these upper level courses is advisable). This sounds kind of strange to me because San Diego State University (SDSU) requires both the GRE Analytical AND at least 24 s.h. of upper division lit/english courses - all this just for their master's program. Is UCSD below average in terms of acceptance standards, or is this typical of PhD vs. Masters?

To give you an idea of my stats, they are fairly average. I will graduate in May 2010 with my bachelor's degree in business with a minor in english, with an expected GPA of 3.25. I will have 3-4 solid letters of recommendation and have a good pool of writing samples to submit. On the SATs (many years ago) I got a 650v. I know the GRE is much different, but just to give you an idea since I haven't taken a standardized test since then. As far as the language requirement, I am conversational in Spanish and am average at being able to read it. I am not familiar with Spanish lit, but I'm sure within the timeframe of May 2010 and August 2011 (when I would presumably begin the program), I could become more fluent and familiar with the lit. Does it sound like I have a chance at admission to the program?

Thanks much,

Sarah

This season is going to be tough and financially tight. The UC just underwent some serious budget cuts, staff losses, etc. So, here is my advice: If you have the time and money (app fees aren't cheap) to put into this application, you might as well do it. However, you must remember that you'll be competing with more people for fewer spots. Among the people with whom you'll compete are people who already possess BA's and MA's in Literature (whether English, comp lit, comp and rhet, etc). Of these, many will have substantially high GRE scores and GPAs. Writing samples include items such as a few essays (when they say 25 pages cumulative, don't submit more than two papers totaling 25 pages. Go for two papers of around 12-15 pages in length, since you probably won't have a min. 25 page paper on a lit. specific topic as an English minor). Also, in regards to your language ability, they don't look for conversational fluency, they're looking for literacy. So, you would have to convince them that you can read Spanish texts fairly well. Of course, they'll admit people whose language skills need work, but that's usually because those individuals had stellar applications.

Remember that applying takes a lot of time, and the fee can be pricey. I'm not totally discouraging you, but you should find out what they average GPA's and GRE scores of prior applicants were. If you could find out how many entered with a non-humanities bachelor's degree, that might be more telling as to their flexibility.

[joeygiraldo]

This season is going to be tough and financially tight. The UC just underwent some serious budget cuts, staff losses, etc. So, here is my advice: If you have the time and money (app fees aren't cheap) to put into this application, you might as well do it. However, you must remember that you'll be competing with more people for fewer spots. Among the people with whom you'll compete are people who already possess BA's and MA's in Literature (whether English, comp lit, comp and rhet, etc). Of these, many will have substantially high GRE scores and GPAs. Writing samples include items such as a few essays (when they say 25 pages cumulative, don't submit more than two papers totaling 25 pages. Go for two papers of around 12-15 pages in length, since you probably won't have a min. 25 page paper on a lit. specific topic as an English minor). Also, in regards to your language ability, they don't look for conversational fluency, they're looking for literacy. So, you would have to convince them that you can read Spanish texts fairly well. Of course, they'll admit people whose language skills need work, but that's usually because those individuals had stellar applications.

Remember that applying takes a lot of time, and the fee can be pricey. I'm not totally discouraging you, but you should find out what they average GPA's and GRE scores of prior applicants were. If you could find out how many entered with a non-humanities bachelor's degree, that might be more telling as to their flexibility.

This thread makes me laugh.

UCSD's program in Literature is highly, HIGHLY selective. Esp. the language requirements (dig deeper into that site, please).

My friend who just got accepted into there is from Belgium. He is fluent in 3 languages (with working knowledge of a fourth), and has TWO Master's: he has a M.A. from Antwerp in Germanic Languages, and an M.A. from SUNY in Comparative Literature (he was my classmate). For one of his classes, he wrote a 45 page final essay just for the hell of it (it wasn't a thesis).

That's the type of competition you are going up against.

[caught_between]

This thread makes me laugh.

UCSD's program in Literature is highly, HIGHLY selective. Esp. the language requirements (dig deeper into that site, please).

My friend who just got accepted into there is from Belgium. He is fluent in 3 languages (with working knowledge of a fourth), and has TWO Master's: he has a M.A. from Antwerp in Germanic Languages, and an M.A. from SUNY in Comparative Literature (he was my classmate). For one of his classes, he wrote a 45 page final essay just for the hell of it (it wasn't a thesis).

That's the type of competition you are going up against.

Thanks for the head's up. The deepest I can dig into the site regarding the language requirement is the FAQ section, which states the following:

I do not speak a foreign language. Can I start studying one once I get into the Program?

Once you are in the program, it is very difficult to start learning a language. Learning a language requires many hours of study, and you run the risk of getting behind in the program.

What is the language requirement for the PhD program?

Students entering UCSD's Ph.D. program are expected to demonstrate a graduate-level working knowledge of a language other than that of their specialization.  For French, German, Spanish and Italian, this is generally construed to mean at least two years of undergraduate study; for Latin and Greek, at least three years; for Chinese, at least four years. Ph.D. students are required to take at least two seminars in a language other than that of their intended specialization. (The Comparative Literature section requires seminars or the equivalent in two foreign languages). Competence in reading, understanding, and interpreting both literary and critical texts in a second language, and --when appropriate--ability to follow seminar discussions or lectures in a second or third language must be demonstrated by the end of the sixth quarter of study.

These guidelines did not seem particulary stringent or selective to me. I'm not saying that they aren't, I'm just saying I didn't interpret it to be so. As I said, I am already average in Spanish, and in 1.5 years time (from the time I finish my bachelor's to the time I would begin the program), I'm sure I could become fluent and familiar with the literature, if I apply myself. I do not intend to major in Comparative Lit; I intend to major in English Lit. Thus, fluency would be required in only one other language, which would be Spanish.

Another FAQ that caused me to be dubious about their selectivity is the following:

Do I need a BA in Literature to apply to the Graduate Program?



You do not need a BA in Literature, but most of our students have a strong background in Literature, Theory, and/or Cultural Studies. It would be to your advantage to take classes in Literature before you apply.

Perhaps they are simply being "nice", but saying something to the effect of "it would be to your advantage" to have taken one or two Literature classes in the past didn't seem like particularly harsh admission requirements. Also, they don't require the GRE Lit Analytical, which I don't understand. Wouldn't a highly selective school at least require that? I have admitted I am a newbie to this entire process, so I don't mean to offend or come off with an attitude, I am simply asking because I am unfamiliar with the process.

~Sarah

[joeygiraldo]

Thanks for the head's up. The deepest I can dig into the site regarding the language requirement is the FAQ section, which states the following:

I do not speak a foreign language. Can I start studying one once I get into the Program?

Once you are in the program, it is very difficult to start learning a language. Learning a language requires many hours of study, and you run the risk of getting behind in the program.

What is the language requirement for the PhD program?

Students entering UCSD's Ph.D. program are expected to demonstrate a graduate-level working knowledge of a language other than that of their specialization.  For French, German, Spanish and Italian, this is generally construed to mean at least two years of undergraduate study; for Latin and Greek, at least three years; for Chinese, at least four years. Ph.D. students are required to take at least two seminars in a language other than that of their intended specialization. (The Comparative Literature section requires seminars or the equivalent in two foreign languages). Competence in reading, understanding, and interpreting both literary and critical texts in a second language, and --when appropriate--ability to follow seminar discussions or lectures in a second or third language must be demonstrated by the end of the sixth quarter of study.

These guidelines did not seem particulary stringent or selective to me. I'm not saying that they aren't, I'm just saying I didn't interpret it to be so. As I said, I am already average in Spanish, and in 1.5 years time (from the time I finish my bachelor's to the time I would begin the program), I'm sure I could become fluent and familiar with the literature, if I apply myself. I do not intend to major in Comparative Lit; I intend to major in English Lit. Thus, fluency would be required in only one other language, which would be Spanish.

Another FAQ that caused me to be dubious about their selectivity is the following:

Do I need a BA in Literature to apply to the Graduate Program?



You do not need a BA in Literature, but most of our students have a strong background in Literature, Theory, and/or Cultural Studies. It would be to your advantage to take classes in Literature before you apply.

Perhaps they are simply being "nice", but saying something to the effect of "it would be to your advantage" to have taken one or two Literature classes in the past didn't seem like particularly harsh admission requirements. Also, they don't require the GRE Lit Analytical, which I don't understand. Wouldn't a highly selective school at least require that? I have admitted I am a newbie to this entire process, so I don't mean to offend or come off with an attitude, I am simply asking because I am unfamiliar with the process.

~Sarah

I realize my post seemed a bit forward (sorry) and the tone was a little off. I'll just tell you facts: 1) My friend who got accepted into the program is one of the brightest people I know (smarter than me, yes), and the faculty in our previous grad program all agreed, and he is extremely lettered and knows many languages (all I'm saying here is this is the type of competition you'll be up against) and 2) UCSD's Literature program is not a traditional English program, but rather more of a Comparative Literature one (so thusly, I think even though they don't have specific language requirements on the site, I believe wholeheartedly that they expect serious language skills for admission).

[glasses]

Another FAQ that caused me to be dubious about their selectivity is the following:

Do I need a BA in Literature to apply to the Graduate Program?



You do not need a BA in Literature, but most of our students have a strong background in Literature, Theory, and/or Cultural Studies. It would be to your advantage to take classes in Literature before you apply.

Perhaps they are simply being "nice", but saying something to the effect of "it would be to your advantage" to have taken one or two Literature classes in the past didn't seem like particularly harsh admission requirements.

This means nothing. I know someone currently at a top PhD program in English, TAing for a top professor in the field (and by "top professor," I mean Rock Star Tippity-Top Professor). His BA is in biology.

Also, they don't require the GRE Lit Analytical, which I don't understand. Wouldn't a highly selective school at least require that?

This doesn't mean anything, either. U Chicago and Columbia also don't require the Eng. lit. subject GRE, and both are excellent programs. (Although, you wrote "GRE Lit Analytical" -- not sure what you mean? Do you mean the Analytical Writing section of the regular GRE, or the Lit subject GRE, or both?)

[sonicsustain]

This thread makes me laugh.

UCSD's program in Literature is highly, HIGHLY selective. Esp. the language requirements (dig deeper into that site, please).

My friend who just got accepted into there is from Belgium. He is fluent in 3 languages (with working knowledge of a fourth), and has TWO Master's: he has a M.A. from Antwerp in Germanic Languages, and an M.A. from SUNY in Comparative Literature (he was my classmate). For one of his classes, he wrote a 45 page final essay just for the hell of it (it wasn't a thesis).

That's the type of competition you are going up against.

Good for him, I guess. This doesn't really do much for the OP, though.

[joeygiraldo]

Good for him, I guess. This doesn't really do much for the OP, though.

I think it does. I think it gives the OP some perspective on the strength of the types of applicants and accepted students there and demonstrates that the school does expect a lot more than they lead on on their website.

I do admit it was an awkward way of me to show all this, by telling the OP about my friend, but I'm sticking to it.

[caught_between]

Thank you all for your information - I do really appreciate you taking the time to answer me and offer your advice and/or share your experience. It sounds to me like perhaps it would be best if I pursue my M.A. before applying to the Ph.D. programs. After all, this would give me a chance to really stand out amongst fellow applicants as well as work on my graduate-level foreign language requirement. My intention was to apply to both SDSU's M.A. program and UCSD's Ph.D. program in 2010 for Fall 2011 admission and see what happens.

I'm quite settled in San Diego at the moment, and so that is why I'm applying for admission only at San Diego schools. I have a good feeling that I will at the very least be accepted to SDSU's M.A. program, so not too worried about that. I realize, however, that in the future I will likely have to branch out. I'm just not ready yet to relocate as of yet, especially since my fiance and I are currently in the process of buying a house!

~S.

[rising_star]

What is the language requirement for the PhD program?

Students entering UCSD's Ph.D. program are expected to demonstrate a graduate-level working knowledge of a language other than that of their specialization. For French, German, Spanish and Italian, this is generally construed to mean at least two years of undergraduate study; for Latin and Greek, at least three years; for Chinese, at least four years. Ph.D. students are required to take at least two seminars in a language other than that of their intended specialization. (The Comparative Literature section requires seminars or the equivalent in two foreign languages). Competence in reading, understanding, and interpreting both literary and critical texts in a second language, and --when appropriate--ability to follow seminar discussions or lectures in a second or third language must be demonstrated by the end of the sixth quarter of study.

These guidelines did not seem particulary stringent or selective to me. I'm not saying that they aren't, I'm just saying I didn't interpret it to be so. As I said, I am already average in Spanish, and in 1.5 years time (from the time I finish my bachelor's to the time I would begin the program), I'm sure I could become fluent and familiar with the literature, if I apply myself. I do not intend to major in Comparative Lit; I intend to major in English Lit. Thus, fluency would be required in only one other language, which would be Spanish.

UCSD is basically a comparative literature program without the name. Though they don't say this explicitly, they're expecting applicants to have two non-English languages generally speaking. So you'd be taking graduate seminars not only through their department (which would be in English) and then graduate seminars in Spanish and possibly another department. And, FWIW, I know one of my friends who spent four years living and working in Mexico City found graduate seminars in Spanish challenging not only due to the volume of the reading but also the difficulty of reading things like literary criticism in another language.

Another FAQ that caused me to be dubious about their selectivity is the following:

Do I need a BA in Literature to apply to the Graduate Program?



You do not need a BA in Literature, but most of our students have a strong background in Literature, Theory, and/or Cultural Studies. It would be to your advantage to take classes in Literature before you apply.

Perhaps they are simply being "nice", but saying something to the effect of "it would be to your advantage" to have taken one or two Literature classes in the past didn't seem like particularly harsh admission requirements. Also, they don't require the GRE Lit Analytical, which I don't understand. Wouldn't a highly selective school at least require that? I have admitted I am a newbie to this entire process, so I don't mean to offend or come off with an attitude, I am simply asking because I am unfamiliar with the process.

~Sarah

Of course you don't need a BA in literature to apply but if you don't have one, you'll need to convince the admissions committee of your ability to do graduate coursework in literature. Also, it's not common for comparative literature programs to require the English Lit GRE because it focuses on things that most comparative literature students (and faculty) do not.

Just so there's no doubt, UCSD is an incredibly selective PhD program and they also weed students out by flunking them on their comprehensive exams (so the competition doesn't end when you get in).

[caught_between]

rising_star, thank you for your input! This gives me even better perspective.

[teepeer]

Hello, I am a Pakistani college teacher with an MPhil in English literature and a Masters in ELT (English language teaching). I am interested in applying for a PhD in English at UCSD. I have four years of college teaching experience and good GPA's. My GRE score is 540 v 460 maths and 5.5 in AWA (not very good I know). Do i stand a chance for admission. (Please give honest feedback even if its discouraging) Plus, the languages I know besides English is Urdu (and a regional language Punjabi). I am interested in working on Asian/ South Asian literature basically. Is it a problem that i dont meet 2nd language requirements of most universities? I am confused because half the programmes talk about french, german and what not.... any feedback from a current UCSD student will be immensely useful.(I am intending to apply for 2012)

[papillon]

Thanks for the head's up. The deepest I can dig into the site regarding the language requirement is the FAQ section, which states the following:

I do not speak a foreign language. Can I start studying one once I get into the Program?

Once you are in the program, it is very difficult to start learning a language. Learning a language requires many hours of study, and you run the risk of getting behind in the program.

What is the language requirement for the PhD program?

Students entering UCSD's Ph.D. program are expected to demonstrate a graduate-level working knowledge of a language other than that of their specialization. For French, German, Spanish and Italian, this is generally construed to mean at least two years of undergraduate study; for Latin and Greek, at least three years; for Chinese, at least four years. Ph.D. students are required to take at least two seminars in a language other than that of their intended specialization. (The Comparative Literature section requires seminars or the equivalent in two foreign languages). Competence in reading, understanding, and interpreting both literary and critical texts in a second language, and --when appropriate--ability to follow seminar discussions or lectures in a second or third language must be demonstrated by the end of the sixth quarter of study.

These guidelines did not seem particulary stringent or selective to me. I'm not saying that they aren't, I'm just saying I didn't interpret it to be so. As I said, I am already average in Spanish, and in 1.5 years time (from the time I finish my bachelor's to the time I would begin the program), I'm sure I could become fluent and familiar with the literature, if I apply myself. I do not intend to major in Comparative Lit; I intend to major in English Lit. Thus, fluency would be required in only one other language, which would be Spanish.

Another FAQ that caused me to be dubious about their selectivity is the following:

Do I need a BA in Literature to apply to the Graduate Program?



You do not need a BA in Literature, but most of our students have a strong background in Literature, Theory, and/or Cultural Studies. It would be to your advantage to take classes in Literature before you apply.

Perhaps they are simply being "nice", but saying something to the effect of "it would be to your advantage" to have taken one or two Literature classes in the past didn't seem like particularly harsh admission requirements. Also, they don't require the GRE Lit Analytical, which I don't understand. Wouldn't a highly selective school at least require that? I have admitted I am a newbie to this entire process, so I don't mean to offend or come off with an attitude, I am simply asking because I am unfamiliar with the process.

~Sarah

I think that they give low-end requirements for language study/undergrad major in their FAQ section in order to avoid discouraging exceptional but nontraditional applicants from applying. Those application requirements do not mean that they are likely to accept people with little language study or a non-English background; it just means that they theoretically could accept someone who showed great potential but lacked some of the standard preparation. As for the Literature GRE, if that is the test you are referring to, many schools are beginning to question its value as an indicator of graduate success. The fact that they do not require it does not mean they are not selective, but rather that they do not think of it as a useful tool. Many top programs do not require the test--Vanderbilt, Brown, Wisconsin, etc.

If you are trying to decide when to apply, however, I would not recommend making that decision based on whether you think you will get in. Instead, I would recommend making that decision based on whether or not you feel ready to commit to a PhD program at this point in your academic and personal life. In other words, do you have a clear idea of what you want to specialize in? Which scholars you would like to work with? Are you ready to live in one city for 5 to 7 years, supporting yourself with a graduate stipend? Are you willing to commit yourself to very serious and time-consuming study for 5-7 years, knowing that it is very difficult to get a job in academia even after successfully completing your PhD? If not, then go for the MA and use that as a time to develop your interests, better understand your own goals, and improve your application. If you do feel ready for the PhD, then do your research, find programs that are truly good fits, and don't let the possibility of not getting in stop you. Best of luck with the whole application process!