how much difference does submitting grad school apps ahead of the deadline really make ?

[metallocene2015]

Hi everyone, 

I've started finalizing my grad school apps and I was curious about how much an impact submitting grad school apps early have on my chances of being admitted ? I know that the earlier I submit my app the better it is but would it actually make a difference in my chances of being accepted ? I am planning to submit my app for my safety school (Oregon State U) and my dream school (UC Irvine) ahead of the deadline but my current P.I has already made it clear to me that he can't do that so what I am thinking now is to have someone else who CAN submit my letters earlier write my recommendation letter in his place for these two schools. The problem is that the prof. I have in mind doesn't really know me that well, is known to write only so-so letters and only remembers me from having gotten an A+ in his class 3 years ago. Assuming that he and my other 2 recommendation writers can submit their letters before the deadline for both these schools, is it worth it to trade a potentially strong recommendation for a so-so letter just so that I can (hopefully) hear back from these schools earlier (or have a better chance at getting in)?  One of these profs taught a graduate course that I aced and the other one taught a graduate course that I also did very well in and I am currently working as his TA for general chemistry. I am an international student btw. Any advice would be highly appreciated !

Thanks !

[Monstercookie]

Sending a weaker application just to be early sounds like I very bad idea to me. I won't claim to be very knowledgeable in regards to this, but I can't imagine an early application would make much of a difference. For example, I'm fairly certain that it makes no difference  at my current school, and it's probably the same for many others.  

 

Does anyone have reliable sources on the importance of early submissions? I know that some schools start looking at applications, or even start admitting, before the deadlines.  However, I wouldn't necessarily assume this implies that early applications are favored. From what I gathered, it's generally clear if an applicant has what the school wants or not, and as there are often no strict limits on the number of accepted students they can safely start admitting as soon as the applications drop in. I think you shouldn't worry too much about getting ahead of the pack. In most cases, although of course not always, you're mainly competing with yourself; if you have what the school wants they'll admit you.

[TakeruK]

You should only submit an application ahead of the deadline if:

1. The school indicates that early applications will be given some favourable treatment (usually only true if it's a rolling admissions process or the actual deadline is really late, like March).

2. You are 100% certain that your application is 100% complete and will not change (i.e. all your best LORs are submitted, any papers that you are waiting on for review has reached their decision etc.)

Otherwise, there is no point submitting early (well, submit a day or two early to avoid last minute computer issues). Don't rush your LOR writers into writing a letter early.

What normally happens is that most schools have deadlines in December. During December, the staff work to put together portfolios of all applicants and maybe there is an initial vetting to remove obviously uncompetitive applicants (depending on the volume of applications). Then, completed applications are sent to the committee for review, which may be late December (if deadline was early December and faculty want to review over the break) or more likely, early January. Sometime in January or February, the committee meets and makes decisions. 

Some schools may deviate from this standard approach. But for schools that do the standard thing, your time of application does not matter. This is why it's often okay for things like test scores or LORs to come after the deadline---as long as it's all there by the time the committee finishes reviewing applications, it will be fine.

[St Andrews Lynx]

I've heard that some Chemistry AdComms do look at applications ahead of the deadline. But they're probably going to wait until after the deadline to make offers for the majority of applicants (if a really strong application came in on the day of the deadline they wouldn't want to have allocated all their offers before then).

Even without considering deadline dates, you need to have a LoR from your current PI. It would be a offer-killing red flag about your suitability for research if you didn't. 

[metallocene2015]

Thanks everyone for the really insightful and helpful replies !

TakeruK, I had the same thoughts as you did- one of my safety schools has their priority deadline on March 15th (regular deadline is April 1st) and the two other schools have deadlines in February and March (UBC and McGill)- since the February deadline is the priority deadline for international students I thought I would submit my application at that time. Since my PI is unwilling to submit my application be the priority deadline I thought I would find someone else who can do this to write my other recommendation letter. By the way, do you know what deadline grad schools normally request recommendation letters to submit their letters ? Priority deadline or regular (latest) deadline ? Because if it's the priority deadline then I might be able to keep my PI's letter after all..

 

[ChemEnthusiast]

Admission representative at Vanderbilt University told me that they are doing rolling admission and will offer based on first come first serve. You might want to email the programs that you are applying to get more specific answers.

[TakeruK]

13 hours ago, metallocene2015 said:

Thanks everyone for the really insightful and helpful replies !

TakeruK, I had the same thoughts as you did- one of my safety schools has their priority deadline on March 15th (regular deadline is April 1st) and the two other schools have deadlines in February and March (UBC and McGill)- since the February deadline is the priority deadline for international students I thought I would submit my application at that time. Since my PI is unwilling to submit my application be the priority deadline I thought I would find someone else who can do this to write my other recommendation letter. By the way, do you know what deadline grad schools normally request recommendation letters to submit their letters ? Priority deadline or regular (latest) deadline ? Because if it's the priority deadline then I might be able to keep my PI's letter after all..

Ah I didn't realise that you were including two Canadian schools as well. They might work a little differently than US schools, but I'm not in your field so I can't say for sure there.

I know that most programs at Canadian schools admit students by professor rather than by committee. A committee may exist in order to pick out the top candidates, but after that, a professor must "speak up" for you in order to get an offer. This is mostly due to experience with the Physics programs though, so Chemistry may be different. But my impression of the system at the PhD level is that if the school has funding for say 10 students, the committee may identify the top 20-30 students and then send those profiles to all professors. If a professor wants any of those students, they speak up and the committee can make a shortlist based on how many professors speak up for a candidate. If there are more interests than spots, then some "horse-trading" or negotiating might be done to make a final list of offers. In addition, sometimes Canadian schools will make offers ahead of the deadline if a professor for sure wants an candidate and is already fully willing to pay for it. There was one school that was a great match for me and I ended up receiving an offer from them before the application deadline because another school only gave me 4 weeks to respond to their initial offer (which would have been before the first school's application deadline). Basically, I would treat Canadian PhD applications to be more like job offers where you are admitted directly to a professor's group, rather than the department. However, all of this is based on my experience with Canadian Physics programs---Chemistry may be a different beast!

But what does this all mean? I think you should treat the priority deadline as the actual deadline for you. Get everything in by then and tell your LOR writers that this is the deadline for international students. That said though, it's common for Canadian schools to have an early deadline for your application itself and then a later deadline, often 2 weeks later for transcripts (if they are requesting paper copies) and LORs to arrive. I remember that for my U Toronto application, the online application deadline (which was just basic biographical information) was January 15 and then all of the supplementary materials (SOPs, transcripts, LORs) had to be in by February 1 (because they wanted hard copies for some reason, but that was 2010).

Despite all of the speculations above, the best thing to do is to not speculate and just ask the programs you are applying to for the deadline which the letters should arrive. Then, communicate this to your LOR writers (you can forward them the email if you'd like). You should not try to submit an incomplete application---get the letters from the best possible people to arrive at the proper time. 

[metallocene2015]

Thanks for the comments everyone ! I finally managed to convince my advisor to submit his letters a week before the deadlines and have already submitted all my applications. Hope I'll hear back from some schools soon