PhD admission presentation

[Mil_1768]

I am accepted the first two parts of application and now they asked me to go there to have a presentation!GOOD but i don't know how detailed and how long it should be, and can't ask them bc they may think I am novice. I used to give presentations every month in my master group but they are 30 min! they also asked me for an abstract so they can announce my presentation. and should I talk about my master thesis results with all experiments i have done!? my field is chemistry and material science

[fuzzylogician]

Ask them how long the presentation should be. There is no way we can tell you that. Asking doesn't make you seem like a novice (but asking here does--how could we possibly know?). The contents will at least partly depend on how much time you have, so you need to know. While you're at it, also ask what to expect the audience to be like (just one prof? an entire research group? the whole department? students - undergrads? grads?). That should also inform your decision of what to present. 

[TakeruK]

As fuzzy said, it's okay to ask questions! You definitely want to ask the questions fuzzy suggested about the audience, the length, the level of detail. I'll expand on the last point a bit.

In my field (but not in my current program), sometimes prospective students/applicants are invited to come and give a talk to a particular research group, or as part of the same seminar series that current graduate students present in. It's really important to understand the context of the talk. Part of this is knowing the audience, but another big part is knowing the purpose of the talk series you're participating in (if any). A talk to a particular research group should be more like what you've been doing in your Masters group, where you are talking to people at a high level of detail, especially the technical details of exactly how and why you did things the way you did.

However, if you are presenting in a Journals Club or department seminar type series, then you should keep your talk at a "higher level". This means spending lots of time motivating the research question and the background. Spend only a little bit of time on your methods---say the key words that will tell the experts in the room what kind of techniques you're using but don't spend too much time that a non-expert would be bored or confused. Also, usually the goal of these types of seminars is for people to learn something cool and new from outside of their field, so be sure to focus your time on what the question is, why it's important, your main results and how your work fits into the current understanding.

Finally, the request for an abstract for an announcement makes me think this is more like the second case I described (seminar series instead of research group). Sometimes you can find the website for this seminar series on the department pages. You can take a look at previous abstracts to see what has been presented in the past. Some seminar series even puts the slides that the speakers used online, so flip through them too. One danger is that you have no idea which talks were well received in the past, so I wouldn't just copy the same style (since you might copy someone they didn't like!). Instead, use this information to understand what the audience has been seeing before. 

[Mil_1768]

18 hours ago, TakeruK said:

As fuzzy said, it's okay to ask questions! You definitely want to ask the questions fuzzy suggested about the audience, the length, the level of detail. I'll expand on the last point a bit.

In my field (but not in my current program), sometimes prospective students/applicants are invited to come and give a talk to a particular research group, or as part of the same seminar series that current graduate students present in. It's really important to understand the context of the talk. Part of this is knowing the audience, but another big part is knowing the purpose of the talk series you're participating in (if any). A talk to a particular research group should be more like what you've been doing in your Masters group, where you are talking to people at a high level of detail, especially the technical details of exactly how and why you did things the way you did.

However, if you are presenting in a Journals Club or department seminar type series, then you should keep your talk at a "higher level". This means spending lots of time motivating the research question and the background. Spend only a little bit of time on your methods---say the key words that will tell the experts in the room what kind of techniques you're using but don't spend too much time that a non-expert would be bored or confused. Also, usually the goal of these types of seminars is for people to learn something cool and new from outside of their field, so be sure to focus your time on what the question is, why it's important, your main results and how your work fits into the current understanding.

Finally, the request for an abstract for an announcement makes me think this is more like the second case I described (seminar series instead of research group). Sometimes you can find the website for this seminar series on the department pages. You can take a look at previous abstracts to see what has been presented in the past. Some seminar series even puts the slides that the speakers used online, so flip through them too. One danger is that you have no idea which talks were well received in the past, so I wouldn't just copy the same style (since you might copy someone they didn't like!). Instead, use this information to understand what the audience has been seeing before. 

thanks!!! awesome info! Just that I still hesitate if its second case, I checked the department and there is no info, I think the best is as you said, I prepare a presentation with my master uni sign to show i am a kinda guest researcher and first try to motivate them then give them some info about the most important results and methods I achieved. 

about abstract it should be like a journal paper?half a page and no photo or graph....

[TakeruK]

For the abstract, keep it short since most people will just skim it to decide if they want to go. Very few people will read it deeply. You can also be a lot less formal for a talk abstract than a journal paper. Also, think of a good and interesting title too, some people will only read the title and not the abstract! Remember, the main point of the title+abstract for a seminar talk is to simply convince people to attend your talk!

I looked for the same thing at my old undergrad school. Here is an example of what a typical abstract for a seminar might look like in physics (assuming your field isn't going to be that much different in this regard): Source: http://www.phas.ubc.ca/thin-film-alchemy-using-strain-and-dimensionality-unleash-hidden-properties-oxides

Guided by theory, unparalleled properties—those of hidden ground states—are being unleashed by exploiting large strains in concert with the ability to precisely control dimensionality in epitaxial oxide heterostructures.  For example, materials that are not ferroelectric or ferromagnetic in their unstrained state can be transmuted into ferroelectrics, ferromagnets, or materials that are both at the same time.  Similarly, new tunable dielectrics with unparalleled performance have been created.  Results of fundamental scientific importance as well as revealing the tremendous potential of utilizing multicomponent oxide thin films to create devices with enhanced performance will be shown

 

[Mil_1768]

On 21 Nov 2015 19:17:51, TakeruK said:

For the abstract, keep it short since most people will just skim it to decide if they want to go. Very few people will read it deeply. You can also be a lot less formal for a talk abstract than a journal paper. Also, think of a good and interesting title too, some people will only read the title and not the abstract! Remember, the main point of the title+abstract for a seminar talk is to simply convince people to attend your talk!

I looked for the same thing at my old undergrad school. Here is an example of what a typical abstract for a seminar might look like in physics (assuming your field isn't going to be that much different in this regard): Source: http://www.phas.ubc.ca/thin-film-alchemy-using-strain-and-dimensionality-unleash-hidden-properties-oxides

Guided by theory, unparalleled properties—those of hidden ground states—are being unleashed by exploiting large strains in concert with the ability to precisely control dimensionality in epitaxial oxide heterostructures.  For example, materials that are not ferroelectric or ferromagnetic in their unstrained state can be transmuted into ferroelectrics, ferromagnets, or materials that are both at the same time.  Similarly, new tunable dielectrics with unparalleled performance have been created.  Results of fundamental scientific importance as well as revealing the tremendous potential of utilizing multicomponent oxide thin films to create devices with enhanced performance will be shown

 

thnx OK, got ur point, but: is it ok to present my master thesis data ?I mean I don't ask my professor bc I may loose my back up chance for phd! and the results will be published soon (they are mine but he is my supervisor) and they are kinda confidential! So how detail should I reveal them?

[TakeruK]

42 minutes ago, Mil_1768 said:

thnx OK, got ur point, but: is it ok to present my master thesis data ?I mean I don't ask my professor bc I may loose my back up chance for phd! and the results will be published soon (they are mine but he is my supervisor) and they are kinda confidential! So how detail should I reveal them?

This is really tricky and depends on the norms of both your field and also any agreement you may have with your supervisor/lab group.

In my field, it would be very bad for a student to present work they did with their supervisor without informing their supervisor. Usually, I will also inform any coauthors if I am presenting any work we did together outside of my own department and if the abstract or talk will be archived or indexed in some way (but not necessarily ask for approval---just informing people in case they object to me saying a particular thing). 

So, really, it depends on who "owns" this work. Is it just you? Or also your supervisor?

I understand that you are in a tricky situation because you are applying to other schools for PhD and it seems like your professor does not know. However, this seems like there are a lot of other problems going on. You really should have the support of your current professor** if you want to have a good chance at other PhD programs.

So, I think the real issue is first you should figure out how to talk to your current professor about applying to PhD programs. Honestly, if the professor is a good advisor and truly wants the best for you, they would understand and support that you need to see other options too and apply to more than just their PhD program. 

However, you also said that you've accepted the first two parts of the application? I'm not sure what this means. Does it mean that they already requested and read references and don't need to see your Masters professor's letter? Maybe this is a very different system than what I'm used to then and this advice does not apply anymore. You don't have to provide more details if you don't want to, of course!

(** Unless of course, your current professor is a terrible person and you need to get out and can explain this).

[Mil_1768]

31 minutes ago, TakeruK said:

This is really tricky and depends on the norms of both your field and also any agreement you may have with your supervisor/lab group.

In my field, it would be very bad for a student to present work they did with their supervisor without informing their supervisor. Usually, I will also inform any coauthors if I am presenting any work we did together outside of my own department and if the abstract or talk will be archived or indexed in some way (but not necessarily ask for approval---just informing people in case they object to me saying a particular thing). 

So, really, it depends on who "owns" this work. Is it just you? Or also your supervisor?

I understand that you are in a tricky situation because you are applying to other schools for PhD and it seems like your professor does not know. However, this seems like there are a lot of other problems going on. You really should have the support of your current professor** if you want to have a good chance at other PhD programs.

So, I think the real issue is first you should figure out how to talk to your current professor about applying to PhD programs. Honestly, if the professor is a good advisor and truly wants the best for you, they would understand and support that you need to see other options too and apply to more than just their PhD program. 

However, you also said that you've accepted the first two parts of the application? I'm not sure what this means. Does it mean that they already requested and read references and don't need to see your Masters professor's letter? Maybe this is a very different system than what I'm used to then and this advice does not apply anymore. You don't have to provide more details if you don't want to, of course!

(** Unless of course, your current professor is a terrible person and you need to get out and can explain this).

Yes he is a terrible person!exactly  thats why i want to leave his group, otherwise scientifically he is as good as my destination professor. he already gave a good LOR but he thinks i want to stay here! and if he realises that i won't then its not good! I mean i don't need him but he is my prof. but more than that I am worried that scientifically and professionally its kinda betrayal or sth. He is my supervisor so he is kinda co author and the lab at least belongs to him! about the abstract i don't think if they archive it some important info be revealed but presenting sth and the people may see sth and thats not professional if my prof is not informed , I think :/

[TakeruK]

Yeah, I can't know what the best for you since I don't know the details of your unique situation.

But, I would not present work with my supervisor without informing my supervisor. And I think there could be unintended consequences of people seeing your work and not realising that you didn't tell your supervisor and then they meet your supervisor and say something like "hey, your student gave a great talk last month!" and your supervisor finding out that way. I think I personally would take the risk of telling my supervisor what I was doing and if that means I don't get to stay in their group as a PhD student, then well, that's okay with me since I don't really want to work for someone like that anyways. But that is just my opinion and your situation may be very different. Hope these thoughts are helpful.