Not your average "chances" thread

[Anita]

Hello Psychology posters!

The title is rather ambitious, it seems, but all it really means is that I don't know anyone else with a similar situation :| This is a looooong post, but I hope it's entertaining. If you feel inclined to respond, please do read the whole thing somewhat closely first, because I've tried to make all the info here count, and not having to clarify would save time for both of us

Sooo...I'm a senior at a very elite New England private liberal arts college. I'm thinking of grad school, and change my mind about it pretty much every other day depending on how I feel about my chances and the research process. The reason I'm so unsure is because my situation is pretty unique AFAIK. It got to a point where I found the career center and my own advisor to be of no help at all, and am hoping you guys would have better and more friendly advice

OK, so I'm an international student from SE Asia. English is my second language, but somehow I achieved near-perfection in it, according to people. Anomaly #1. This leads to a very high GRE score, again according to people (770M, 720V). Anomaly #2. I'm the only Asian int'l student I know who majors in psychology without any other, more "practical" backup major such as econ. Anomaly #3. Somehow, I kept screwing my psyc classes in my last 3 years at college, leading to a rather mediocre major GPA of around 3.4 (never bothered to calculate because it's depressing), and a cum GPA of 3.54. Keeping in mind my school has an insane grade inflation problem, especially the psyc department, so when I say my GPA is low, it really _is_ low. You won't find many foreign students, especially at a school like mine, who does such a mediocre job (got a C+ in stats, no kidding). Anomaly #4. Finally, not really an anomaly, but it does complicate things so I might as well mention it. I need a full ride at whatever school I'm going to. Neither my family nor myself can shell out a cent toward an advanced degree (I'm already on a full ride here at college). Anomaly #5. Oh and since I'm on a roll, here's #6: I have no professor who can definitely write me an impressive rec, because, well, AFAIK I don't think I managed to impress anyone in the dept. Maybe my thesis advisor, who I'm at least friendly with and don't feel awkward around.

I didn't take the GRE Subject, because I forgot that one needs to register a month in advance for the paper tests. So, no GRE Psy Subject. I'm writing an empirical thesis, but it's about the only research experience I've had, and I haven't even started running trials yet. I have a few research interests, none of which overlaps with my thesis topic. And they're in the most general of terms. Intelligence, romantic interpersonal relationships, affective forecasting, positive psychology. Basically they're things I enjoy pondering on, and things studied by psychologists I admire, e.g. Dan Gilbert, Robert Sternberg, Martin Seligman, Howard Gardner, Mike Csikszentmihalyi, etc. Now the question is, should I even bother to apply, and if so, where? Keeping in mind each school on the list translates to $100 in application expenses. No fee waivers, of course.

Someone will probably recommend taking a year off. The pre-emptive answer is, I'd love to, but it's very hard, because of visa issues. Heavens knows I want to stay stateside, because home is unbearable. I can't help feeling, as I write this, that I've screwed myself in several different bodily orifices. Up to you to judge though.

Phew, there, that's all my fears and insecurities laid out on the page for all of you to see. Any and all feedback is appreciated! Seriously, if things work out, I'll actually send you real cookies in the mail!

Edited October 26, 2009 by Anita

[pospsy]

Hello Psychology posters!

Sooo...I'm a senior at a very elite New England private liberal arts college. I'm thinking of grad school, and change my mind about it pretty much every other day depending on how I feel about my chances and the research process. The reason I'm so unsure is because my situation is pretty unique AFAIK. It got to a point where I found the career center and my own advisor to be of no help at all, and am hoping you guys would have better and more friendly advice

OK, so I'm an international student from SE Asia. English is my second language, but somehow I achieved near-perfection in it, according to people. Anomaly #1. This leads to a very high GRE score, again according to people (770M, 720V). Anomaly #2. I'm the only Asian int'l student I know who majors in psychology without any other, more "practical" backup major such as econ. Anomaly #3. Somehow, I kept screwing my psyc classes in my last 3 years at college, leading to a rather mediocre major GPA of around 3.4 (never bothered to calculate because it's depressing), and a cum GPA of 3.54. Keeping in mind my school has an insane grade inflation problem, especially the psyc department, so when I say my GPA is low, it really _is_ low. You won't find many foreign students, especially at a school like mine, who does such a mediocre job (got a C+ in stats, no kidding). Anomaly #4. Finally, not really an anomaly, but it does complicate things so I might as well mention it. I need a full ride at whatever school I'm going to. Neither my family nor myself can shell out a cent toward an advanced degree (I'm already on a full ride here at college). Anomaly #5. Oh and since I'm on a roll, here's #6: I have no professor who can definitely write me an impressive rec, because, well, AFAIK I don't think I managed to impress anyone in the dept. Maybe my thesis advisor, who I'm at least friendly with and don't feel awkward around.

I didn't take the GRE Subject, because I forgot that one needs to register a month in advance for the paper tests. So, no GRE Psy Subject. I'm writing an empirical thesis, but it's about the only research experience I've had, and I haven't even started running trials yet. I have a few research interests, none of which overlaps with my thesis topic. And they're in the most general of terms. Intelligence, romantic interpersonal relationships, affective forecasting, positive psychology. Basically they're things I enjoy pondering on, and things studied by psychologists I admire, e.g. Dan Gilbert, Robert Sternberg, Martin Seligman, Howard Gardner, Mike Csikszentmihalyi, etc. Now the question is, should I even bother to apply, and if so, where? Keeping in mind each school on the list translates to $100 in application expenses. No fee waivers, of course.

Someone will probably recommend taking a year off. The pre-emptive answer is, I'd love to, but it's very hard, because of visa issues. Heavens knows I want to stay stateside, because home is unbearable. I can't help feeling, as I write this, that I've screwed myself in several different bodily orifices. Up to you to judge though.

Phew, there, that's all my fears and insecurities laid out on the page for all of you to see. Any and all feedback is appreciated! Seriously, if things work out, I'll actually send you real cookies in the mail!

I have very similar interests as you do! (Mine = Positive psych + emotion in general, with a secondary focus on affective forecasting and social connection)

Awesome GRE score! You probably don't have to worry about your GPA because of your stellar GRE.

PhD usually offers a full package with fellowship/TA-ship/RA-ship, and you should be able to survive with the stipend. I am not familiar with the process for international student though. I think you need to submit some sort of financial statement?

For letter of rec, if you got one from your thesis advisor, that will probably be a relatively strong one. Hopefully you can get two more letters of rec from someone who knows you or you have taken multiple classes with. (Preferably from psych)

For psych GRE, you can try walk-in. I am not sure how to go about doing it, but there are definitely people who register on the spot and take the test. (You still have the November one. Some schools will consider it, though it may be too late for some.) You, being a good test taker, should be able to score high in the subject test, and this will help offset your "low" psych GPA (3.4 is decent, I don't think it's low at all).

Obviously, you want to focus on your thesis as your research experience. Show your knowledge in the field! (As you enjoy reading works from those great researchers.) If at all possible, try to link your thesis to your interest. I never thought of my field as related to positive psychology, but I found a way to link them.

Perhaps, you can try to draw from other psych classes (especially lab classes) and extracurricular activities to demonstrate your potential as a researcher.

The big names that you mentioned will probably attract a lot of super-impressive apps. It's up to you whether you want to apply to work with them. (If you have money, then go ahead because your interest fits perfectly with them)

Here are some researchers who definitely focus on positive psych(I know less about research on relationship.) :

Sonja Lyubomirsky at UC Riverside

Maya Tamir at Boston College

Dacher Keltner at UC Berkeley

Laura King at U Missouri

....etc

Here's a website with faculty who are interested in positive psych:

http://www.ppc.sas.upenn.edu/ppfaculty.htm

Hope this helps!

[profound_g]

Your summary is perfect. This is just a list of fears.

I'm sure that the specific combination is somewhat atypical, but this is true for anyone.

Anyhow, here's a summary of the important/relevant things here:

Great GRE, Less so GPA, need full funding, recs uknown, some basic research exp, no year off.

Sounds like a normal application profile to me. I'm not sure what feedback you had in mind when you posted this, but just apply to some schools. Really.

Edited October 26, 2009 by profound_g

[Anita]

Thanks a mil guys I'm feeling a lot better now.

Funny that you should mention Maya Tamir. I was going through a list of pos. psy. researchers, looked her up and fell in love with her research, then I checked this thread and there her name is

More questions coming up. First, how to pick schools. As I said, each school translates to several hours of putting things together, and $100 in fees (app fees as well as GRE score reports). So we probably have to put a cap on it, say 7 schools. My strategies for finding interesting professors has been:

- this list: http://www.ppc.sas.upenn.edu/ppfaculty.htm.

- collaborators of the superstars mentioned above.

- people heavily cited in positive psychology books

- people published in journals such as J. Pos. Psy. and J. of Happiness.

This translates to not 7, but 70 schools. The thing that makes it hard is that I don't have specific interests, so I'd look at someone's research interests and think, "Hm, interesting, I'd like to know more about this." But that's not enough to keep me fired up for 5 years, I don't think. So, I need some kind of more restrictive criteria. Let me ask you a question. Were you so excited about your research interest that you "can't sleep at night" (from UMN's department website)? I can't say the same about myself.

So yeah, school selection first, and then we'll see if I'm required to take the subject test. Another question: with programs that only "recommend" the subject test, is it worth it? It's $150, hours and hours of studying and lots of transport arrangements to the test site because I don't have a car.

Everyone recommends writing to professors I'd like to work with. I'll be honest again. I feel pretty bad doing that, because my interest in most people's research is pretty shallow. Not to mention they are superstars. At least people like Ed Diener and Mike Csikszentmihalyi are. So, IDK if I should write those people. Oh also, is now too late to write professors?

Also, does school ranking matter? On PHD.org, two programs I'm interested in (Positive Psy at Claremont U. and Boston College) have an "educational effectiveness" below average. I tried to dig up the research methods that led to that rating, but couldn't. Should this matter? I think it's at least somewhat accurate, b/c Stanford, UMich and Harvard are all on top as we can imagine.

Meh, I'm a walking conglomeration of insecurities. I hope they'll disentangle themselves one by one. In any case, thanks for all the help

[pospsy]

Thanks a mil guys I'm feeling a lot better now.

Funny that you should mention Maya Tamir. I was going through a list of pos. psy. researchers, looked her up and fell in love with her research, then I checked this thread and there her name is

More questions coming up. First, how to pick schools. As I said, each school translates to several hours of putting things together, and $100 in fees (app fees as well as GRE score reports). So we probably have to put a cap on it, say 7 schools. My strategies for finding interesting professors has been:

- this list: http://www.ppc.sas.upenn.edu/ppfaculty.htm.

- collaborators of the superstars mentioned above.

- people heavily cited in positive psychology books

- people published in journals such as J. Pos. Psy. and J. of Happiness.

This translates to not 7, but 70 schools. The thing that makes it hard is that I don't have specific interests, so I'd look at someone's research interests and think, "Hm, interesting, I'd like to know more about this." But that's not enough to keep me fired up for 5 years, I don't think. So, I need some kind of more restrictive criteria. Let me ask you a question. Were you so excited about your research interest that you "can't sleep at night" (from UMN's department website)? I can't say the same about myself.

So yeah, school selection first, and then we'll see if I'm required to take the subject test. Another question: with programs that only "recommend" the subject test, is it worth it? It's $150, hours and hours of studying and lots of transport arrangements to the test site because I don't have a car.

Everyone recommends writing to professors I'd like to work with. I'll be honest again. I feel pretty bad doing that, because my interest in most people's research is pretty shallow. Not to mention they are superstars. At least people like Ed Diener and Mike Csikszentmihalyi are. So, IDK if I should write those people. Oh also, is now too late to write professors?

Also, does school ranking matter? On PHD.org, two programs I'm interested in (Positive Psy at Claremont U. and Boston College) have an "educational effectiveness" below average. I tried to dig up the research methods that led to that rating, but couldn't. Should this matter? I think it's at least somewhat accurate, b/c Stanford, UMich and Harvard are all on top as we can imagine.

Meh, I'm a walking conglomeration of insecurities. I hope they'll disentangle themselves one by one. In any case, thanks for all the help

I thought i will apply to BC to work with Maya too, but i am applying with my girlfriend and she couldn't find a school that fits her interests in Boston.

Sounds like BC would be a great choice for you!

People usually take years off to strengthen their apps, narrow down their interests, and make sure they have a strong passion in research. Having said that, I think you have a good idea of your interests while not narrowing down too much, which is good for grad school. For interest and passion, you really need to ask yourself why you want to pursue a PhD in psych and why you want to study positive psych.

For psych GRE, you can look for schools that don't require it. It's probably not worth it to take the psych GRE only for schools that recommend it. Save your time to contact prof, and write a better SoP.

Now is not too late to contact prof. In fact, most professors have a better idea whether they are going to accept students now than two months ago. Write to famous prof is totally fine. Just keep the email short and polite. They are super busy people.

Ed retired, btw. Mike is at Claremont which to my understanding, does not guarantee funding for PhD students.

ranking matters but not so much. The fit with the professors that you are planning to work with is way more important.

educational effectiveness sounds to me like the quality of classes. if that's the case, it's not so important because most of what you do in grad school is research rather than taking classes.

You should check out Richard Lucas at MSU (he's a student of Ed Diener).

oh, and you should look at the editors in those positive psych journal. People who published in it may not be the most ideal people to look at because if their research is indeed very important, they would have published their research in journals like JPSP.

[wolfentinus]

I agree that you aren't the only one with these concerns. I myself having similar concerns (worse as I do not have such a stellar GRE score).

With regards to research interest, a good start will be to ask yourself why you are interested in the topics you mentioned. You'll probably be able to focus your interests based on your answers, and that will help you to narrow your list of schools. Your answers will help you in the emails to prospective professors as well

Even better if you can link your thesis idea (however little) to your interests.

[LaurenA]

Another option if you're still not sure what you're really interested in is to apply to an experimental M.A. program first. That's what I did/am doing, and thank goodness I did! Within three months I was able to find my true interests and got a ton of experience, which I'm hoping wipes out my mediocre B.A. GPA and research experience and propels me over B.A./B.S.'s applying this term. Ever since starting this M.A. program, I've been a huge advocate for this route (IF you aren't nailed down to a particular set of interests, want experience, etc.)

Edit: M.A.'s are also great back-ups...I thought I was a gung-ho (sp?) clinical applicant a few years ago and applied to M.A.s as back-up, didn't get in to PhDs and LOVE my current program

Edited December 31, 2009 by LaurenA

[Anita]

Whoa, this thread is up again!

Thanks everyone for suggestions. A lot of people are recommending that I look into MA programs. I'd be happy to, but I heard MA programs very rarely have full funding, and chances of funding for foreign student can only be worse (cf. this book). Does anyone know what MA programs, in other countries even, have generous funding?

[LaurenA]

I heard MA programs very rarely have full funding, and chances of funding for foreign student can only be worse

I'm in the experimental psych program at The College of William & Mary, which is funded by our half-time teaching assistantships. It's enough to live on, and almost what I made full-time as an RA. I believe Wake Forest is funded as well. Oh, our tuition is taken care of as well

I can't say much about funding for foreign students, but we do have a first-year from eastern Europe who had no problem.