Comparing UK/European vs USA PhD programs

[torvicnz]

Hi everyone,

I'm deciding between a PhD program in the UK and one in the States. My field will be applied biology. My dilemma is: Does anyone have any advice / anecdotes on how a PhD from the UK is viewed if you are applying for a post-doc or a junior faculty position in the US? Some common generalised points that I've read so far are listed below. Thanks for your suggestions!

UK system

- 3-4 years for PhD

- Teaching is often optional, possibly not encouraged

- No specific requirements for publishing before graduation

--> If you get a UK PhD, getting a junior faculty position in the USA is tough

 

US system

- 5-7 years for PhD

- Teaching often highly recommended

- Specific requirements / highly recommended to publish before graduation

--> If you get a USA PhD, you could go to UK for a faculty position without facing as much difficulty as the other way around

[pterosaur]

I had this discussion with a number of faculty while deciding where to go after my masters in the UK. The consensus was that if you want a faculty position in the US, you'll be better off if you have experience in the US, either as a post-doc or PhD student. If you go to a top-notch UK university (Cambridge, Imperial, etc.), you shouldn't have a problem getting a US post-doc. Some professors also thought the US system, with its additional classes, provided a better educational experience, compared to a more vocational approach in the UK system, but this seems to be a subjective idea of which system is better. Since I'm shifting fields, this is something of a benefit for me. One of the things that also led me to decide to come back to the US for my PhD is funding. It can be very, very difficult to get funding in the UK if you don't have UK home status (UK or EU student living in the UK for 3 years). I was surprised by this, since I was expecting it to be more like the US system where all PhD students are funded.

[ChrisTOEFert]

I think it really depends on what you want to get out of it, no?  It sounds like your end goal is professor, as you mention teaching positions.  If that is worrying you, and you don't mind the extra year or two of schooling I would pursue the US.  Funding is a bit scattered in the UK, but it depends on what school you get into.  I know somebody who goes to Cambridge and their funding is only 19k pounds per year and she is barred from getting a job.  Another friend of mine gets €1,300 per month take home money, and myself, am supposed to get around €2,500 per month take home money.  Also, a lot of the North American schools only fund for a certain number of years and then you are on your own to fund yourself.  Personal experience, I was going to have to find funding in the US my final 2 years if I chose to attend, and for me that was wayyy too stressful a situation to be begging for scraps here and there, trying to work a job so I could eat and pay rent, and making progress in research.  

For my situation it made more sense to go to Europe.  Ask me again in a year and I may give you a different answer once I've slogged through the trenches a bit.  But on paper this seemed like the best for my end goal.  For you, it seems like unless you nail a mega-prestigious position (Cambridge, Oxford, to name a few) you may have some trouble finding work afterwards.  But on the flip side, you're out earlier and you may be able to work your way up from that.  Good luck.  

[torvicnz]

Thanks pterosaur and ChrisTOEFert for your thoughts. I do ultimately want to try for a professorship, but heck, we all know what a crapshoot that is. So I want to be relatively flexible with my PhD outcome - I am fully aware that a post-doc (if not 2) will be needed, regardless of where I pursue my PhD. It seems like both of you are saying that the institution where I pursue my PhD will somewhat over-ride the fact that it's a UK PhD when I'm applying for jobs. Makes sense, although I heard that it's more about the publications you have under your belt. E.g., Cambridge PhD won't help much if you don't have a single publication in a high impact journal. Thoughts?