How much debt is too much?

[SDtoMPP]

So I've been accepted into some really great programs that I'm really excited about. I have gotten some funding, but no matter what I will need to take out loans. I don't have any debt from undergrad anymore and have a pretty significant amount of money saved (50,000+). I'm hoping to attend Berkeley and work as a GSI so I only have to take out loans for cost of living. But I know that taking out loans is a risky move and I'm trying to figure out exactly how much (or how little) debt I should be willing to take on.

Any insight would be helpful!

[irapplicant1776]

Generally, not more than you expect to make with your first year's salary. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/your-money/student-loan-repayment-calculator.html?pagewanted=all

[kb6]

On 3/19/2016 at 6:39 PM, SDtoMPP said:

So I've been accepted into some really great programs that I'm really excited about. I have gotten some funding, but no matter what I will need to take out loans. I don't have any debt from undergrad anymore and have a pretty significant amount of money saved (50,000+). I'm hoping to attend Berkeley and work as a GSI so I only have to take out loans for cost of living. But I know that taking out loans is a risky move and I'm trying to figure out exactly how much (or how little) debt I should be willing to take on.

Any insight would be helpful!

I think an important step is to have a strong idea of what your salary will be coming out based on the specific kind of work you want to do and not just based on the grad school's stated averages.

I went to SAIS, and their private sector average salary is something like 68k/year coming out. I happened to earn right near the median, but I have some friends who landed jobs with consulting firms and are making way more than that, and some friends who are working for privately run "international development" firms who are making way less. So if you took out a bunch of loans to go to SAIS with the idea that you're going to make 68k working for a private company focused on international development, you might be shocked to discover no one will pay you anywhere near that for an entry-level job in that field.  

[Pichichi]

4 hours ago, kb6 said:

I think an important step is to have a strong idea of what your salary will be coming out based on the specific kind of work you want to do and not just based on the grad school's stated averages.

I went to SAIS, and their private sector average salary is something like 68k/year coming out. I happened to earn right near the median, but I have some friends who landed jobs with consulting firms and are making way more than that, and some friends who are working for privately run "international development" firms who are making way less. So if you took out a bunch of loans to go to SAIS with the idea that you're going to make 68k working for a private company focused on international development, you might be shocked to discover no one will pay you anywhere near that for an entry-level job in that field.  

I've been accepted for IDEV, but I guess you could say I've come to realize that with the loans I would have to take out that I would more inclined to look into consulting or something else. Is this realistic? Do you know if many IDEV students end up taking jobs outside of development and are "making it work?" 

 

I've found this thread helpful to look through: 

 

[kb6]

16 hours ago, Pichichi said:

I've been accepted for IDEV, but I guess you could say I've come to realize that with the loans I would have to take out that I would more inclined to look into consulting or something else. Is this realistic? Do you know if many IDEV students end up taking jobs outside of development and are "making it work?" 

 

I've found this thread helpful to look through: 

 

I just scanned through that thread and a few thoughts come to mind.

1) If you know you want to go into a high-paying field like management consulting, why are you getting an IR master's in international development? I don't pose that question in an accusatory way, but I think it's an important one to ask yourself. If you get an MBA, you will have on-campus recruiting by those firms and easily earn 6-figures when you arrive. I have friends who have gone from SAIS to a big consulting firms (including from the IDEV program), but they all start at considerably lower salaries - sometimes on-par with people with no master's. 

2) I definitely have a few friends who have done IDEV and have found high-paying jobs -- but typically their positions have nothing to do with international development. The ones with IDEV-y jobs are typically making around 50k/year (and in some cases, 10-15% less than that). You can go on IBR, but you might not even be covering your interest payments at that salary level, and your debt will continue to grow. And honestly, at that salary, it could be hard to live in DC as a single person even if you had no debt whatsoever. 

3) For those thinking that they are going to do loan forgiveness: 

• A LOT of IDEV jobs are with private-sector contractors. Yes, PRIVATE companies will pay people less than 50k/yr in a city where it apparently takes 108k/yr to live "comfortably" (LINK) while expecting them to have a master's degree and multiple years of experience working abroad. You can do IBR, but your loans will NOT be forgiven at the end of 10 years
• You think you want to work for the government to get PSLF? Well the majority of my SAIS friends involved with the federal gov are working for contractors. This means that while they are getting paid similarly to feds, work in the same building alongside of feds, have fancy badges that get them access to fed buildings, etc., they are NOT eligible for loan forgiveness.

 

 

 

 

[coasts]

@kb6 thanks for raising the point that many jobs that we may think are public are actually commonly given to private contractors. a good thing to keep in mind when thinking about PSLF

[SenNoodles]

I also wouldn't rely on public sector loan forgiveness - multiple proposals have been made to cap the program and it's even shown up on the chopping block in recent budgets, so it's also entirely possible the program will be eliminated altogether before those entering grad school now graduate/are eligible to be grandfathered in.

[weksa]

On 3/22/2016 at 0:45 PM, SenNoodles said:

I also wouldn't rely on public sector loan forgiveness - multiple proposals have been made to cap the program and it's even shown up on the chopping block in recent budgets, so it's also entirely possible the program will be eliminated altogether before those entering grad school now graduate/are eligible to be grandfathered in.

This is definitely something that freaks me out as I prepare to take on more debt than I imagined I would.

My choice boiled down to a very safe in-state school with almost full funding (joint degree master of science in urban planning/mpa) in a city where I have some roots already and the McCourt School's mpp. After much deliberation, I couldn't avoid seeing myself feeling more fulfilled doing the latter option, even if it means additional debt. The safe option was just a bit too safe, for various reasons. I'm still really freaked out by the prospect of more debt, but I decided I would at least start my graduate studies there and work my butt off trying to secure more funding for the next year, either through the school or outside scholarships/fellowships.

Maybe its a bit reckless to say that if I regret my financial decision after the first semester or two, I can always change my course...but that's kind of where I'm at right now. Trusting my gut over my head for now, and hoping the federal government/job market doesn't completely screw me over...

Edited March 30, 2016 by weksa

[YayPublicPolicy]

On a similar note, while I very much acknowledge and appreciate that this is a good problem to have, I'm caught between The Ford School (which is full-ride) and HKS (which has yet to release funding decisions, but I know I'll have to take out loans one way or another). While HKS seems like a better fit for me (better rep for what I'm interested in -- global affairs and social innovation -- and I mean, you really can't ignore that network), it hurts my heart to think about saying no to a loan-free grad education at an awesome program. What do you guys think? Is the name actually worth it? And at what cost?

I know I'm kind of jumping the gun here a bit since I don't have all the info, but this wait is killing meeeeeee lol. I feel like there's nothing else I can do other than wallow in hypotheticals. I'd appreciate any and all input!

[weksa]

22 hours ago, YayPublicPolicy said:

On a similar note, while I very much acknowledge and appreciate that this is a good problem to have, I'm caught between The Ford School (which is full-ride) and HKS (which has yet to release funding decisions, but I know I'll have to take out loans one way or another). While HKS seems like a better fit for me (better rep for what I'm interested in -- global affairs and social innovation -- and I mean, you really can't ignore that network), it hurts my heart to think about saying no to a loan-free grad education at an awesome program. What do you guys think? Is the name actually worth it? And at what cost?

I know I'm kind of jumping the gun here a bit since I don't have all the info, but this wait is killing meeeeeee lol. I feel like there's nothing else I can do other than wallow in hypotheticals. I'd appreciate any and all input!

Not sure if you have already visited both schools or not, but that is something that helped me make my decision. Meeting with professors and looking more into what research is being done, what the students are doing and have done, etc. is what helped me realize that I would most likely regret choosing the full-ride over the school that I reeeeally wanted to go to, despite the monetary circumstances. 

I think it really depends on how committed you are to a certain area of study and work. If you think HKS will get you where you want to go and Ford School won't, and the loans aren't too insane, then I say go with HKS. However, if you are ambivalent or see a way forward through the Ford option, then I say go with that because you'll be more free to make decisions not based on money. 

[NekoAtsume]

On 3/19/2016 at 3:39 PM, SDtoMPP said:

So I've been accepted into some really great programs that I'm really excited about. I have gotten some funding, but no matter what I will need to take out loans. I don't have any debt from undergrad anymore and have a pretty significant amount of money saved (50,000+). I'm hoping to attend Berkeley and work as a GSI so I only have to take out loans for cost of living. But I know that taking out loans is a risky move and I'm trying to figure out exactly how much (or how little) debt I should be willing to take on.

Any insight would be helpful!

This is exactly where I'm at too - and I do think the financial side of things should be an important part of our decision. With an MPP we aren't going to be making loads right out of school. I got $0 from HKS, which would mean I would have to take out over 100K in loans to attend there. I just don't think it's worth it. I'm thinking the same of Goldman and hoping to GSI every semester and just pay for living costs, which your 50K would go a long way in covering. Ugh, decisions!  Are you going to be at Goldman's admit day?

Also I found this old forum which might be helpful: 

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by NekoAtsume
adding link