Going back to undergrad, after grad school?

[Dragonstone]

Hi, I'm asking for a friend.

She majored in business in undergrad, then went on to do an MBA. Now - for personal reasons, affected/ inspired by someone's illness - she wants to change her field and go into biology. It's really important to her, but she has no bio background.

Very smart girl, undergrad and MBA from prestigious universities, GRE/ GMAT scores in the 95th percentile etc.

She wants to know if she's eligible to apply to grad schools for biology-related fields, or if going back to undergrad is a good idea.

She's not thinking in terms of jobs/ money/ time she'd lose, so that's a non-issue.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Dragonstone

[biochemgirl67]

I'm glad she's found a passion for disease!

But.

Scientific study is wawaaaaaay more than witnessing a loved one succumb to an awful disease, especially at a graduate level.  In fact, if she were to apply directly to biology graduate programs, her personal statement would be so nonspecific and lack compelling evidence of an aptitude and affinity for science.  It's so much more than being smart, and that's what she has no knowledge of right now.  The study of science, in terms of research, involves so much failure that many highly intelligent people actually don't like it.

So.  Maybe she could get into a master's program somewhere, probably at a not that great school.  But what actually might help her career is to go back to undergrad at a more prestigious university, get involved in long term research, and then decide where she wants to go.  Then she'll have better options.

[BeakerBreaker]

I think it's possible to make this kind of switch. HOWEVER, I think your friend needs to make a compelling case. If, for example, she devours some literature related to what she wants to study, and is able to intelligently make sense of it, that would be a start. In addition, volunteering for or working in a lab, even for a short period of time, might be a good way to gain some credibility. There are plenty of grad students in biology who have shaky-at-best training, but they usually have something else helping them (like a major/work in another STEM field).

Edited March 21, 2016 by BeakerBreaker

[immuno91]

I would say going back to undergrad may not be the way forward, but maybe something that can facilitate transition would be (a master's level program). Depending on interests, something like an MPH (ideally one at a public health program that allows for independent research) would allow her to gain some credibility (an MPH is also a degree that can complement an MBA and can be used to allow her to work in more health-oriented fields that may not be bench based, such as working for an organization like the Gates Foundation or CHAI).

[Dragonstone]

2 hours ago, biochemgirl67 said:

I'm glad she's found a passion for disease!

But.

Scientific study is wawaaaaaay more than witnessing a loved one succumb to an awful disease, especially at a graduate level.  In fact, if she were to apply directly to biology graduate programs, her personal statement would be so nonspecific and lack compelling evidence of an aptitude and affinity for science.  It's so much more than being smart, and that's what she has no knowledge of right now.  The study of science, in terms of research, involves so much failure that many highly intelligent people actually don't like it.

So.  Maybe she could get into a master's program somewhere, probably at a not that great school.  But what actually might help her career is to go back to undergrad at a more prestigious university, get involved in long term research, and then decide where she wants to go.  Then she'll have better options.

She understands that, and wants to know that if her best shot (the kind where she can actually make a difference) is to go back to undergrad, would Adcoms even consider her? Given her really unique profile and background, the fact that she's a 26-year old with an MBA from a prestigious university etc. Is this even doable for her?

[biochemgirl67]

Just now, Dragonstone said:

She understands that, and wants to know that if her best shot (the kind where she can actually make a difference) is to go back to undergrad, would Adcoms even consider her? Given her really unique profile and background, the fact that she's a 26-year old with an MBA from a prestigious university etc. Is this even doable for her?

They'll consider her, but experience is key.  If she's looking to get into a stellar program, it might be best to go back to undergrad or do something like a master's in public health first.  That's so she can add a science bias to her experience.  I'm just concerned about a person that wants to jump into a career like this without having experienced it first.  It's a big thing to know if someone will stay in the PhD program since it's such a huge commitment.

[Immunolog]

I know a few people in similar situations. Your friend might need to complete a biology post-bac program to fulfill the necessary coursework to even apply for biological grad programs. While completing classes she needs to find a good lab to intern or work part-time for. She needs to keep in mind that she's competing for spots that many others have spent years working for through 4-yr undergrad programs plus extracurricular lab experience. 

[MusMusculus]

I kind of did this. I had a bachelors degree in non science, and then decided to become a scientist but I had no background so went back and did a new bachelors at 25. If she wants to pursue it through to the PhD level, I think with 2-3 years of sustained lab and course work you can totally get accepted to top programs as I seem to have managed. But I think you need at least 2-3 years of experience (post bacc or new degree) and learning and even that is cutting it close. And you need to get into the lab as soon as possible and excel in science coursework. This will also confirm or deny the idea that the field would even be a good fit for her. 

Also, this story about a couple who went from non-science to science after the wife was diagnosed with a disease is pretty amazing and inspiring. https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2016/02/17/husband-and-wife-race-cure-her-fatal-genetic-disease/SLnmAndVfrq9XO1NnLIgkL/story.html

Edited March 21, 2016 by MusMusculus

[Dragonstone]

Wow, thanks for the great responses everyone. She's found this all so helpful. You guys are the best. ^__^

 

MusMusculus, out of curiosity, how was it like, going back to undergrad at 25? Was it difficult or uncomfortable? I myself can't imagine going back to undergrad, because I think I'd feel awkward/ like a misfit. More power to you for having the guts to follow your passion!

Edited March 22, 2016 by Dragonstone

[ballwera]

2 hours ago, PlanB said:

That is a pretty cool story.

Agreed, but seriously can reporters please stop saying that people inherit genes that cause disease? One of my biggest pet peeves by far. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by ballwera

[MusMusculus]

11 hours ago, Dragonstone said:

MusMusculus, out of curiosity, how was it like, going back to undergrad at 25? Was it difficult or uncomfortable? I myself can't imagine going back to undergrad, because I think I'd feel awkward/ like a misfit. More power to you for having the guts to follow your passion!

Hah! Like you said about your friend, "She's not thinking in terms of jobs/ money/ time she'd lose, so that's a non-issue." I wanted to become a scientist, and the only way to become a scientist from no background is to take classes and get in the lab. It was definitely strange and depressing at times but there was no other way for me to get to this point so it was all worth it.  

If she wants to really become a research scientist at the PhD level, the information you need to acquire and the experience you need to gain is not trivial. It is totally possible though, and actually many PIs at top schools found my dedication and experience in other fields as a big positive. Alternatively, like some have mentioned she could also get involved through things like public health which would be a much easier transition. There is always something someone can do to help improve human health, be it from the bench or in other ways!