Academic Training eligibility

[marco_p]

Hello,

From what I can read on my University's International Students Office page, J1's Academic Training allows for employment which is considered integral to a student’s academic program. What does "considered integral" mean in practice? Does it only allow the students to be employed when the employment constitutes a necessary part of the degree (i.e. it is degree's requirement) or is it just necessary that this employment will be strictly connected with the academic program? For instance, I will study city management/public administration in a graduate school - would it be possible for me to be eligible for AT after the end of my program (in fields relevant to my area of study, e.g. in city administration or public consulting)? Or maybe J1 graduate students generally do not qualify for AT unless it is their degree's requirement?

[fuzzylogician]

You should be eligible for AT. It doesn't need to be an official part of the degree requirements. There are criteria you need to meet like having been in your program a certain amount of time and (I think) showing that the work is related to your studies, but I think that can be relatively loosely defined (caveat: I was on an F-1 visa and OPT might be slightly different). 

[marco_p]

Just now, fuzzylogician said:

You should be eligible for AT. It doesn't need to be an official part of the degree requirements. There are criteria you need to meet like having been in your program a certain amount of time and (I think) showing that the work is related to your studies, but I think that can be relatively loosely defined (caveat: I was on an F-1 visa and OPT might be slightly different). 

thanks for the answer, that's what I hope for! however, the caveat you mentioned is basically the point of my question. I know that this would work with F1's OPT but I have a few reasons to apply for the J1 visa. On the other hand, these reasons won't really matter if it'll be impossible for me to be temporary employed after the program. If it is not so clear then I will probably choose the F1 visa.

[TakeruK]

I'm on a J-1 visa. Academic Training does not have to be part of your degree requirements. My University's International students page is very clear that the AT employment has to be directly related to the student's field of study (not course of study). There is often confusion because F-1 CPT (curricular practical training) is for employment integral to your degree program. My school might be wrong, but I have seen this explained this way at other schools too. 

I was considering doing some work for a non-profit educational company in town (as an employed instructor) and I talked to my International Office and they said this is okay as long as I am okay with using up my AT training time working there. In the end, it would have only been 3 hours of work per week and the Department of State makes no distinction between 1 month of AT part-time work or 1 month of AT full time work. This work is clearly not related to degree requirements but it is related to my field of study. 

In my opinion, the most useful reasons to apply for the J visa is if you have a spouse that would like to work in the US, because the J-2 can apply for a EAD (this is why I am on J-1 so my J-2 spouse can work). There is also another small benefit, for STEM majors, F-1 OPT is currently 27 months (but it could be 36 months soon) while J-1 AT is 36 months. But I think the second thing isn't a very big benefit, considering the drawbacks of J-1 status.

Here are some drawbacks you might also want to consider.

1. When your J-1 ends, you may be subject to a 12 or 24 month bar before getting another J-1 visa. The exact length of time depends on the two J-1 visa statuses in question. Generally, it's a 12 month bar between a J-1 PhD student and a J-1 postdoc (research scholar) or a J-1 professor position. This means that if you are a J-1 PhD student, then your first postdoc can be on AT. But your next postdoc or other academic job needs to be on an alternate visa status or outside of the US. H1-B is a common option and for some nationalities, TN is another valid option. 

2. Some J-1 statuses require a 2 year home residency requirement. This means you have to reside in your home country for 2 years before you can get onto another status that would lead to immigration. Usually this happens if you are funded by your home government or your field is on a skills list as determined by your country. However, one can apply to get this requirement waived. 

3. Being on J-1 status has higher insurance requirements which might cost you a little bit more money. Namely, it requires that your insurance plan covers the cost of repatriating your remains to your home country just in case. My student plan covers this already and this costs about $100/year for my spouse. So it's not really a huge deal, although it sounds grim.

For us, it was worth it to deal with the extra hassles of (1) and (2) so that my spouse could work. A lot of these issues are only issues if I take certain career paths (e.g., wanting to do academic work in the US only forever). But with at least 5 years of PhD and 3 years of AT, when I was choosing between F-1 or J-1, it was a problem for 8-years-in-the-future-TakeruK, and who knows what could change in 8 years. It's was more important to take care of present-TakeruK (and spouse). 

If you have more Qs about J-1 status, I'd be happy to discuss what my experience has been!

[marco_p]

thank you TakeruK for this comprehensive response! I am going to be a graduate student not a PhD candidate, but all you have said is very applicable for me. I chose the J-1 visa because I also applied for Fulbright scholarship and if I get it I won't really have any leeway in this matter and I will also fall under 2-year home residence requirement. However, without the gov-funded scholarship I will not be subjected to this requirement.

To be honest, I am not really sure at this moment whether I want to stay in the US for AT/OPT or not, but I just do not want to hinder any future possibilities at this stage. In my case OPT permits me for 1 year employment and AT for 1,5. It isn't a very big difference, obviously, but my reasoning is that I should go with the longer option if I have the chance. Especially since the drawbacks you've described do not really apply in my case:

1. 12 or 24 month bar, as far as I understand, applies only for J-1 visas for research scholars and professors. Being a graduate student it seems to me that even if I decide to continue my education as a PhD student it will not be a problem to get a new J-1 visa, as long it is not for postdoc or professor's position.

2. As I said, if awarded the Fulbright scholarship I will fall under 2 year home residency requirement anyway. On the other hand, as for now I am only funded by the school so this requirement does not apply to me.

3. Insurance is covered by the fellowship I am getting from my school so it is not a problem for me. Interestingly, my university declares that insurance meeting J-1 visa's requirements is obligatory for all students so I would need to have the same insurance even when in F-1 status.

Again, thank you @TakeruK for this very helpful post! I think both F-1 and J-1 visas are OK in my case but the latter gives me slightly more advantages whereas its drawbacks don't really apply to me. If there is any flaw in my reasoning please do not hesitate to debunk my arguments.

[TakeruK]

First, I guess I have a clarification question. What you do mean by "graduate student" instead of "PhD candidate". In Canada, where I'm from, "graduate student" is a general term for both masters and PhD students. But in the US, these terms are almost interchangeable. I just want to clarify---are you entering a Masters program or a PhD program in the US? The 12 month bar does apply to PhD students, but I'm not 100% sure if it applies to Masters students. I am not sure if the US government distinguishes between Masters and PhD students for J-1 status, but it sounds like you already checked this? I know the 12 month bar will apply to me when I finish my PhD student J-1 status. However, the 12-month bar only applies if you've been on the J-1 status for 6 or more months (so if you are only in the US for a short program, it won't affect you).

Second, applying for the Fulbright is not a good reason to take J-1 status from your school. If you do get the Fulbright, then Fulbright becomes the sponsor of your J-1 status, not your school. You will end up getting a DS-2019 and J-1 documentation from Fulbright if you win that award. **However, this is based only on my knowledge of the Canadian-US Fulbright program, and this was from 2012. I also didn't win the Fulbright in the end, but I was shortlisted so they gave me a ton of information, including instructions to get the DS-2019 from Fulbright instead of the school if I happen to be selected. But since my circumstances is different from yours, maybe you should double check with your future school's international office.

If these are true and based on what you wrote, then the real advantage is 0.5 years of AT status, which is nice as long as there is no 12 month bar for you. Although, even if there is a 12-month bar, you can still attend a PhD program in the US on F-1 status, I think. If you are sure the drawbacks aren't relevant for you, then yeah, it does sound like J-1 gives a slightly better outcome!

[marco_p]

13 hours ago, TakeruK said:

First, I guess I have a clarification question. What you do mean by "graduate student" instead of "PhD candidate". In Canada, where I'm from, "graduate student" is a general term for both masters and PhD students. But in the US, these terms are almost interchangeable. I just want to clarify---are you entering a Masters program or a PhD program in the US? The 12 month bar does apply to PhD students, but I'm not 100% sure if it applies to Masters students. I am not sure if the US government distinguishes between Masters and PhD students for J-1 status, but it sounds like you already checked this? I know the 12 month bar will apply to me when I finish my PhD student J-1 status. However, the 12-month bar only applies if you've been on the J-1 status for 6 or more months (so if you are only in the US for a short program, it won't affect you).

I'm entering 2-year Masters program, sorry for the confusion but I am not entirely familiar with the US academic model yet! To clarify, I am sure that this 12-month bar will technically apply to me but it won't have any practical significance. From what I can read (for example here: http://internationalcenter.umich.edu/immig/jscholar/12and24bars.html), it only relates to Research Scholar and Professor positions after the program. In my case it won't be the issue, as I won't be eligible for these 2 positions anyway. And it seems that there is no limitations with regard to continuing education as PhD student (either in F-1 or J-1 status).

13 hours ago, TakeruK said:

Second, applying for the Fulbright is not a good reason to take J-1 status from your school. If you do get the Fulbright, then Fulbright becomes the sponsor of your J-1 status, not your school. You will end up getting a DS-2019 and J-1 documentation from Fulbright if you win that award. **However, this is based only on my knowledge of the Canadian-US Fulbright program, and this was from 2012. I also didn't win the Fulbright in the end, but I was shortlisted so they gave me a ton of information, including instructions to get the DS-2019 from Fulbright instead of the school if I happen to be selected. But since my circumstances is different from yours, maybe you should double check with your future school's international office.

If these are true and based on what you wrote, then the real advantage is 0.5 years of AT status, which is nice as long as there is no 12 month bar for you. Although, even if there is a 12-month bar, you can still attend a PhD program in the US on F-1 status, I think. If you are sure the drawbacks aren't relevant for you, then yeah, it does sound like J-1 gives a slightly better outcome!

I didn't know that - my Fulbright program didn't provide me with such instructions. And I checked before applying (and double-checked after reading your post) whether they prohibited me from applying for visa - they didn't (but neither said explicitly that I should). What you wrote makes a lot of sense but I thought that it would be safer if I apply earlier. Fulbright award results will be announced at earliest in June and the whole visa process (together with getting DS-2019 from from my school) can take up to 2 months. Since I need to be in the US in late August, my reasoning is that it's better to be prepared in case I don't get the scholarship. I hope it would be possible to update my sponsor (or the whole visa status) if I'm awarded the scholarship. Moreover, the school is already covering more than 65% of the total costs of  my program. Fulbright will not give me more that 10-15% of the total costs - so I'm not sure that it can act as a sole sponsor of my program.

Anyway, thanks again for you response! I am aware that applying for visa before getting the results of Fulbright scholarship is a bit extraordinary approach, but I think it's a safer bet in my case. If awarded, I should have plenty of time to update my status... At least I hope so!

[TakeruK]

Ah yes, you're right, there's no bar between J-1 student and J-1 student statuses!

As for the Fulbright, it sounds like we have applied to very different Fulbright programs, so I guess my advice won't apply here either! My program informed me of their final decision in early April, which was before I started any visa application process with my school (in May). 

Anyways, good luck

[marco_p]

thanks a lot for your great help, it really clarified my last minute reservations I got my J-1 visa today