Advice/Input needed on Econ PhD Applications

[kicpatl17]

Hi guys,

 

I am a non US-citizen interested in applying for Economics PhD programs in the US and need some advice, I’ll try to make this no longer than needed.

 

I have a B.S. Electrical Engineering with a Minor in Economics from a top 10 Engineering School in the US. Currently I am midway (nearing the end of the first year) of a two year Masters in Finance program in a European University. The specific program is relatively highly ranked (top 25 Master of Finance FT rankings) but the university itself is not as well known.

 

My undergraduate GPA is very low (slightly above 2.5) for a variety of reasons including being in the wrong major and not switching (I won’t get into why for the time being). Specifically on my math and statistics classes however, my grades are A’s in 4/6 such classes (including a grad level mathematical statistics class, and a game theory class). My econ class grades are mixed ranging from C’s to highest performance in class.

 

I currently have an honors level GPA in my Masters Program and a tuition waiver scholarship, which I expect to maintain. I am also a research assistant with one of the professors. The program has a thesis requirement which I will be writing in the final semester (Spring 2017), and also allows the option to study abroad for the last semester.

 

My GMAT score is 730 and my GRE is 165M/153V (taken a year ago with very little preparation, confident I can improve if needed).

 

I’d like some input on the following:

- Do I stand any chance if I apply this fall (to start Fall 2017) or should I wait one more year in order to have a more extensive record of high performance (GPA-wise) to counterbalance my poor undergrad GPA, plus a thesis paper under my belt? (will this improve my chances of being accepted or am I misjudging?).

- If I apply this year and get rejected, does reapplying at the same places I got rejected, the following year affect positively/negatively my then chances?

- Do these programs have a preference over GRE vs GMAT and should I retake the respective one?

- What’s the relative importance of Test Scores vs Undergrad GPA vs Masters GPA vs Recommendation letters vs Research Experience?

- Would doing the study abroad option my program offers (at a US university), affect positively my chances?

- In case you think I have a decent chance (either for applying this year or the next) what caliber schools would you be talking about?

And finally

- Since I am specifically interested in Financial Economics, should I rather go for applying at Finance PhD programs (would I have better chances of getting accepted given my background)? If I could choose I’d prefer going for an Econ PhD.

 

Thank you for your time reading, I would greatly appreciate input from anyone in a position to give an opinion on any of the above

 

-C

[DGrayson]

On May 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, kicpatl17 said:

- Do I stand any chance if I apply this fall (to start Fall 2017) or should I wait one more year in order to have a more extensive record of high performance (GPA-wise) to counterbalance my poor undergrad GPA, plus a thesis paper under my belt? (will this improve my chances of being accepted or am I misjudging?).

 Not 100% sure about this one. Graduate programs care mostly about your grades in mathematics related classes, as Ph.D work in Economics involves a high level of mathematical rigor that I not sure you'll be exposed to in finance programs. What math classes have you taken? At the very least you need Calc 1-3 and a Linear Algebra course. Good grades in Differential Equations and Real Analysis are major bonuses, and I'm sure your graduate mathematical statistics class will help if you've done proofs. I wouldn't really wait though, as your grades in the finance program will probably not matter as much since the fields can be pretty different. If you've taken courses in the econ department, I would highlight those in your application. 

On May 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, kicpatl17 said:

- If I apply this year and get rejected, does reapplying at the same places I got rejected, the following year affect positively/negatively my then chances?

Nope. I would be shocked if they even remember you. Don't take it personally though, as most schools get over 350+ applications a year.

On May 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, kicpatl17 said:

- Do these programs have a preference over GRE vs GMAT and should I retake the respective one?

Most, if not all, Econ programs in the US require the GRE and will not take the GMAT. Your GRE quant score is average for people applying in the second tier range, I would take it again if you have the time.

 

On May 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, kicpatl17 said:

- What’s the relative importance of Test Scores vs Undergrad GPA vs Masters GPA vs Recommendation letters vs Research Experience?

Test Scores are often used as a threshold marker during the first round. Files whose scores do not reach some predetermined range (usually 165+) get tossed. From there the test scores don't matter that much. Undergrad and Grad GPA will be considered holistically. Generally committees are looking for a trend. Do you have ok grades at the beginning of your academic career but by the end are you fantastic? Or do you fizzle out at the end? Committees care about this because it gives them insight into how motivated/burned out you are, and how you may preform in their program. Grade wise though, Math grades figure in most prominently, but Econ grades matter too. Since you did poorly in some classes (C grades) I would try to explain them in your SOP, though oftentimes schools do little more than glance at the statement.

 

On May 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, kicpatl17 said:

- Would doing the study abroad option my program offers (at a US university), affect positively my chances?

Only if English is not the primary language of your program. You will still have to take the TOEFL, but it will reassure the econ department that you can speak, read and write the language. 

 

On May 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, kicpatl17 said:

- In case you think I have a decent chance (either for applying this year or the next) what caliber schools would you be talking about?

It really depends specifically on which math courses you have taken, and if you can boost that GRE score. I'd advise applying in the 25-50 range primarily, but throw a few applications to schools higher and lower than that as well. You'd be surprised at the number of people who do not get into schools in the 30 range but do get into schools ranked in the 20s.

 

On May 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, kicpatl17 said:

- Since I am specifically interested in Financial Economics, should I rather go for applying at Finance PhD programs (would I have better chances of getting accepted given my background)? If I could choose I’d prefer going for an Econ PhD.

It really depends on you. I think you'd have an easier time getting into a Finance Ph.D program since your masters is in that, but take a look at the kind of research professors in Finance departments do vs Economics and see which one appeals to you. The last thing you want is to be stuck in a program that you don't like! 

[kicpatl17]

On 6/14/2016 at 6:01 AM, DGrayson said:

 Not 100% sure about this one. Graduate programs care mostly about your grades in mathematics related classes, as Ph.D work in Economics involves a high level of mathematical rigor that I not sure you'll be exposed to in finance programs. What math classes have you taken? At the very least you need Calc 1-3 and a Linear Algebra course. Good grades in Differential Equations and Real Analysis are major bonuses, and I'm sure your graduate mathematical statistics class will help if you've done proofs. I wouldn't really wait though, as your grades in the finance program will probably not matter as much since the fields can be pretty different. If you've taken courses in the econ department, I would highlight those in your application. 

Nope. I would be shocked if they even remember you. Don't take it personally though, as most schools get over 350+ applications a year.

Most, if not all, Econ programs in the US require the GRE and will not take the GMAT. Your GRE quant score is average for people applying in the second tier range, I would take it again if you have the time.

 

Test Scores are often used as a threshold marker during the first round. Files whose scores do not reach some predetermined range (usually 165+) get tossed. From there the test scores don't matter that much. Undergrad and Grad GPA will be considered holistically. Generally committees are looking for a trend. Do you have ok grades at the beginning of your academic career but by the end are you fantastic? Or do you fizzle out at the end? Committees care about this because it gives them insight into how motivated/burned out you are, and how you may preform in their program. Grade wise though, Math grades figure in most prominently, but Econ grades matter too. Since you did poorly in some classes (C grades) I would try to explain them in your SOP, though oftentimes schools do little more than glance at the statement.

 

Only if English is not the primary language of your program. You will still have to take the TOEFL, but it will reassure the econ department that you can speak, read and write the language. 

 

It really depends specifically on which math courses you have taken, and if you can boost that GRE score. I'd advise applying in the 25-50 range primarily, but throw a few applications to schools higher and lower than that as well. You'd be surprised at the number of people who do not get into schools in the 30 range but do get into schools ranked in the 20s.

 

It really depends on you. I think you'd have an easier time getting into a Finance Ph.D program since your masters is in that, but take a look at the kind of research professors in Finance departments do vs Economics and see which one appeals to you. The last thing you want is to be stuck in a program that you don't like! 

Many thanks for replying!

Regarding TOEFL and the Math background you mentioned, as I wrote, I have a BS in Electrical Engineering from a US university (which takes care of the TOEFL requirement) and therefore have taken as part of the core curriculum, Calc 1-3 (Calc 2 is linear algebra) plus a Differential Equations class and a Grad Level Mathematical Statistics class, my grades are really mixed (A, C, A, C, A respectively).

Concerning the holistic evaluation of undergrad and grad GPA you' re mentioning, my undergrad GPA is low throughout almost all semesters (essentially all apart from the first and last), but my grad GPA is consistently high. Now based on your analysis, assuming they give equal weight in considering both grad and undergrad GPA, then I would pass the "fizzling-out" test, since I am finishing out strong. My concern however, is that they will give far more weight in my undergrad GPA, since it is from a well known US institution, whereas my grad GPA is from a much lesser known (relatively unknown in the US to be honest) university, and hence they might trust it less as an indicator resembling potential. I was thinking that if I do a semester abroad (at a US university) and take some challenging classes earning a high GPA, that might serve as indicator reassuring them that my entire grad GPA is a genuine mirror of my potential, and not just a result of an easy grading policy by the university.

Here is the thing - I am relatively certain that unless my grad degree is given considerable consideration in the admission process, I have very little chance of getting accepted. The math background thing does represent a worry in my mind due to the inconsistent performance I've had in some of the classes, however I definitely have all the technical requirements in terms of classes, covered. Main worries are the low performance in many econ classes, and even more, the degree to which my high grad GPA will cancel out my terrible undergrad overall performance.

If you have an more thoughts on any of the above, please do add them, the advice is really helpful.