When you polish yourself a little too much in the SOPs and CVs

[kobie]

I am not talking about fabrication or making stuffs to make you stand out.

What I meant is that everyone of us, along the process of drafting SOPs or CVs, try to tweak our experience and ability in a way to make us the best fit to the applied programs, and sometimes you maybe go a little too far. You may end up like you are boasting a little too much about yourselves.

In another thread, I heard some people in humanities said that their SOPs made them seem to be able to speak a foreign language than they actually can.

I wonder if you have ever realized you are this kind of situation along the application process.

[cheesethunder]

I am not talking about fabrication or making stuffs to make you stand out.

What I meant is that everyone of us, along the process of drafting SOPs or CVs, try to tweak our experience and ability in a way to make us the best fit to the applied programs, and sometimes you maybe go a little too far. You may end up like you are boasting a little too much about yourselves.

In another thread, I heard some people in humanities said that their SOPs made them seem to be able to speak a foreign language than they actually can.

I wonder if you have ever realized you are this kind of situation along the application process.

!!yea

im like .......i got my profs to comment on some of my reserach experiences in my SOP but one of them is fairly new and i talked about it alot and im like how do they know its real? one of the schools asked for reference to classes it was for or a letter from teh supervisor which was nice if youa re still in touch with them!

[JerryLandis]

I think that there is only so much you can get away with making up. If you claim to be fluent in a language, generally speaking that can be backed up by credits and grades earned in language classes, or maybe a writing sample using that language. I suppose that may be more tricky for people whose first language is considered a "foreign language," although in that case, if you do get accepted, you'll have a very tough time keeping up the lie once you enrol!

I'm sure that the people reading these SOPs have read many of them and can spot excessive boasting. I tried to give my SOP a more humble tone, because there's no need to say "I am the smartest person ever and I get the best grades ever" when they have a copy of my transcript right there. I think that the SOP is intended more to give the reader an idea of a person's research interests and general attitudes about the subject, whereas the transcript and recommendation letters will establish how strong the person's qualifications are.

[JerryLandis]

PS my transcript doesn't say I'm the smartest person ever - maybe it was a Freudian slip, but I meant to say that my transcript would show me to be a shameless liar if I put something like that in my SOP!

[coyabean]

You know, it could be me, but I really went for simple -- though learned -- and pleasant. I had this debate with others during the process. I hate pretense. So, even though I can surely BE pretentious I just felt like the adcomms would be swamped by that and it was best to be realistic and honest. And I hoped I sounded like someone they would want to meet in person since that's basically what I'm interviewing for.

Once I decided that was the tone I wanted I actually went back to my drafts and just got as clean as I could, verbiage wise. Let's hope everyone else did this thing you bring up and I come off like a breath of fresh air!

[glasses]

Yeah, for my first several drafts I had the uncontrollable urge to "buck myself up." I didn't pretend I knew anything that I did not, but I did adopt an incredibly pretentious tone. (Are there any TV fans out there who remember when, in "Friends," Joey tried to sound smart by using a thesaurus on every single word of his recommendation letter for Monica and Chandler's adoption? He tried to say that they had big, warm hearts, and ended up writing something like "they are warm-blooded mammals with full-size aortic pumps." That was me. I tried to pretend I knew ALL THE WORDS! In the WORLD!) I also tried to cram every single thing I have ever done into the statement: the apparently common regurgitate-the-CV mistake. It was an insecurity thing, I think. I'm terrified of coming off as woefully inadequate, and I suppose my first reaction to that was to try to sound like a bona-fide arrogant jerk.

My next several drafts went the opposite way: as a kind of knee-jerk reaction to the obnoxiousness of the first several drafts, I bypassed modesty altogether in favor of a kind of "uh, yeah, I read some stuff, and I guess I'm good at this and ready for this, you know, if you think I am, maybe?"

I think I finally got the right balance about a week ago! Which is great, considering it's Dec. 18th and two of my applications were due this week. It took 24 drafts!

[fuzzylogician]

I don't think you can really "polish" your CV. It'd be seriously detrimental if you said you did something, or can do something, and then it would be found out that you didn't/couldn't.

The SOP is a different matter - there it's all about representing yourself in the most attractive light possible. Again, this doesn't mean you should lie, and it would be just as bad if you did, but you can (and should) choose to say the things that make you seem the best fit for a given department. So you might choose to expand on interest A, which Awesome Prof studies, and not so much on project B, which you also enjoyed but isn't something anyone is particularly concerned with at this particular school.

Maybe these are the things you mean by "polishing yourself" in the SOP?

You word yourself in ways that make it clear to the reader that you know the ins and outs of your field. You choose a glamorous research interest and write about how you would like to study it in grad school; a happy coincidence would have it, your potential advisor has studied this same topic for 10 years. You have a similar, yet different, topic for other schools.

This is all part of the SOP game, and I don't think it's dishonest. Everybody knows your interests are very likely to change by the time you get around to choosing a dissertation topic. You don't want to outright lie or choose something that you're not interested in, or you'll simply be unhappy at a school that doesn't fit you, but I think it's totally fine to tweak your interests to make them more appealing to the admissions committees. If you do it right, there's no reason why you would sound like you're boasting. You should be choosing things you're genuinely interested in, and if you're truly passionate about them, it'll shine through your words.

[glasses]

I don't think you can really "polish" your CV. It'd be seriously detrimental if you said you did something, or can do something, and then it would be found out that you didn't/couldn't.

True that.

[kobie]

Yeah, for my first several drafts I had the uncontrollable urge to "buck myself up."

I am with you on this, glasses. I started writing my SOP thinking I would add a touch of pretense to my tone. But I guess I am never good at sounding pretentious, so the more I forced it, the more convincing my SOP turned out to be. I have read many SOPs like that and the pretense tone just jumps right out of the essay to the audience, therefore I can imagine how easily an adcom can spot that.As to the CVs, I agree with fuzzylogican that it’s detrimental to polish it, but I guess not everyone understands this.

I raised this issue because I think it is relevant to any in the process of drafting their SOPs or refining the CVs. In one way or another, this “polishing” issue touches another bigger question of “coming across as honest” or “simply be honest”.

I took this into consideration when writing the paragraph on my professional goals in the SOP in which I stated that I do not like working in academia after getting the degree, but rather join the industry. When I asked some of my friends to proofread, this hit them as a taboo to be mentioned in an SOP and this might affect the adcom’s consideration. But one of my professor told me to just stay true to myself, which I did in the end. I don’t know if this might jeopardize my chance of admission, but anyway I already submitted everything so…

For those of you who have ever written the SOP, which approach do you take towards your SOP, “come across as honest” or “be honest” or a healthy balance of the two depending on the issues you address in the SOP?

[JerryLandis]

I applied to a masters program that specifically says it is not for people looking to go on to a PhD, but for people who want to teach in secondary schools or community colleges. Now, my aim if I don't get into a PhD program this time around is to do a masters and reapply, so I was worried about saying that in my SOP for this school. But then I figured, hey, this school is really my LAST choice - as I was drafting my SOP, I realized that the program is really not what I'm looking for, but I figured I was almost finished with the application so I may as well apply. I didn't say in my SOP that I intend to pursue a PhD, but made a vague reference to wanting to "teach" as a profession. So I didn't lie, just gave them something to draw their own [untrue] conclusions from and assume that I mean I want to teach in secondary schools or community colleges.

What I've told myself is that if I don't get into any PhD programs, okay, I'll just do the masters and reapply. I'm fairly confident I'll get into at least one of the other masters programs I have applied to. But if I don't get into any of these masters programs (especially considering admissions at one of them is not very competitive) and am only accepted to the abovementioned place that's not recommended for PhD hopefuls, then I suppose that means I should be reassessing my goals anyway. If I can't get into any of the other places I'm applying to, then I probably am not cut out for PhD work and should go ahead with my somewhat falsely stated goal of becoming a high school teacher.

[glasses]

For those of you who have ever written the SOP, which approach do you take towards your SOP, “come across as honest” or “be honest” or a healthy balance of the two depending on the issues you address in the SOP?

As I see it, the best way to "come across as honest" is to "be honest."

[coyabean]

As I see it, the best way to "come across as honest" is to "be honest."

Yep.

If you really haven't thought about the issues you present in your SOP I think that's where the urge to BS comes from. But if you have then being direct and honest is not only easier, but more compelling. And not just the SOP. Everything I have ever written follows this rule. If I am not clear about my intention, my audience and my motivations when I write? You'll know it. LOL It'll be crap with a nice spit polish of pretense in hopes of distracting you. I think that's the real thing that adcomms mean by a "bad" SOP -- one where its clear that the person is using pretentious language, quotes, stories, etc. to hide the fact that they are confused or ill-prepared. If you're neither of those things then honesty is both the best policy and the best writing convention.

[Sparky]

In another thread, I heard some people in humanities said that their SOPs made them seem to be able to speak a foreign language than they actually can.

Well, this can refer to two types of situations.

1. I don't actually know Language Y, but in my SOP I'm going to say I studied it independently which means I'll do it this spring.

2. I've taken four years of Language Z, but all I've read is the translation of "Lord of the Rings." Better make sure I can read something scholarly before the fall.

Admissions committees are famously skeptical of the first situation ("the myth of the language auto-didact"...very common in religion, which requires an enormous amount of language training). You need to have coursework to back up your assertion, or have an LOR writer address it (even better).

[JerryLandis]

Reading about long dead intellectuals, you always hear about how they spent hours bent over books, teaching themselves lots of crazy languages. Nobody ever seemed to go to a class. Why can't I do this?

[Lauren the Librarian]

I am not talking about fabrication or making stuffs to make you stand out.

What I meant is that everyone of us, along the process of drafting SOPs or CVs, try to tweak our experience and ability in a way to make us the best fit to the applied programs, and sometimes you maybe go a little too far. You may end up like you are boasting a little too much about yourselves.

In another thread, I heard some people in humanities said that their SOPs made them seem to be able to speak a foreign language than they actually can.

I wonder if you have ever realized you are this kind of situation along the application process.

I totally feel you on this one. I have advanced knowledge of a few foreign languages, plus others where I have the equivalent of 2 years of college level training. But I'm really rusty on some of them and I feel awkward saying I studied them even though I couldn't order a bowl of soup now if my life depended on it.

I also have years of odd-ball technical training, some of which doesn't apply to my current goals. Some my documented courses and training also seem to conflict (how can I be doing activity x if I'm also doing activity y.) I can't do many of those activities now and I don't claim current certifications, but it would also be wrong for me not to mention them because I did earn them, I was kick-butt, and I do have those experiences. When I read my CV, I come across as this secret-agent MacGyver with mad skillz. When really, I'm just a girl, infront of my computer, trying to write a CV and SoP that will get me into grad school.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Lauren the Librarian

[jacib]

When I read my CV, I come across as this secret-agent MacGyver with mad skillz.

Could you elaborate on these MacGyver type skills?

[Lauren the Librarian]

Could you elaborate on these MacGyver type skills?

I have different types of combat, leadership, and electronic equipment technical training. I've had advanced technique driver's training. I was certified as an aircraft loadplanner (knowing how much of what can be put where on a plane so that the plane is stable and won't crash).

I've separated my civilian education from my military experience so it's not muddled on the CV, and I streamlined it so it's just the highlights from the past decade or so.

However, I shouldn't ignore the stuff I did in the military because 1) it's belongs on a CV - a record of the minutia of my learning and experience and 2) it made up a huge portion of my life.

[jacib]

I have different types of combat, leadership, and electronic equipment technical training. I've had advanced technique driver's training. I was certified as an aircraft loadplanner (knowing how much of what can be put where on a plane so that the plane is stable and won't crash).

I've separated my civilian education from my military experience so it's not muddled on the CV, and I streamlined it so it's just the highlights from the past decade or so.

However, I shouldn't ignore the stuff I did in the military because 1) it's belongs on a CV - a record of the minutia of my learning and experience and 2) it made up a huge portion of my life.

Wow, an aircraft loadplanner AND a librarian. Quite the life.

In another thread, I heard some people in humanities said that their SOPs made them seem to be able to speak a foreign language than they actually can.

Oh yeah I should put out that that was me.. but it's more like I've lived in this country for two years and I should presumably be much more competent than I am in the language. I didn't say "I know this language FLUENTLY" but I put down "have lived here for two and a half years teaching English and learning Turkish" and let them infer that I spoke it very well, rather than just enough to get my point across... so not a lie per se, but you know.

Edited December 21, 2009 by jacib

[Lauren the Librarian]

Wow, an aircraft loadplanner AND a librarian. Quite the life.

Sounds that way, doesn't it? The truth is I didn't choose to get certified. They told me that's what I had to do (I was a responsible/mature person in my unit). Mind you, I studied my butt off and was the top student in my class, but I couldn't care less about it now. On the other hand, I am choosing to be a librarian. I've done a few internships in special libraries in the past year and am starting an Information Studies master's program next month.

Oh yeah I should put out that that was me.. but it's more like I've lived in this country for two years and I should presumably be much more competent than I am in the language. I didn't say "I know this language FLUENTLY" but I put down "have lived here for two and a half years teaching English and learning Turkish" and let them infer that I spoke it very well, rather than just enough to get my point across... so not a lie per se, but you know.

I have been fascinated by your posts and your academic plans. I'm applying for something similar and can appreciate the difficulty in translating your experience into an employable skill or academic credit. You have an unusual insight into the people there, at the same time more and less than a Bachelor's degree in Turkish Studies. You might be missing direct study of the history and culture, but you understand their thoughts, minds and customs on a much more intimate level. It's hard to market skills like that. Learning languages outside of an accredited classroom is also difficult to explain. I would recommend (for your own sake) taking a placement exam at a university. I wish I had done that. I studied Japanese intensively on my own a few years ago, and am fairly confident that I achieved a proficiency around 3-4 college level semesters. If I had taken the placement exam while at the university (usually free for students), I would know for sure and I could put down my level with complete confidence. To error on the side of caution, I tend to say I studied "some" Japanese or not mention it at all; I would hate to overstate my abilities.

[jacib]

Sounds that way, doesn't it? The truth is I didn't choose to get certified. They told me that's what I had to do (I was a responsible/mature person in my unit). Mind you, I studied my butt off and was the top student in my class, but I couldn't care less about it now. On the other hand, I am choosing to be a librarian. I've done a few internships in special libraries in the past year and am starting an Information Studies master's program next month.

I have been fascinated by your posts and your academic plans. I'm applying for something similar and can appreciate the difficulty in translating your experience into an employable skill or academic credit. You have an unusual insight into the people there, at the same time more and less than a Bachelor's degree in Turkish Studies. You might be missing direct study of the history and culture, but you understand their thoughts, minds and customs on a much more intimate level. It's hard to market skills like that. Learning languages outside of an accredited classroom is also difficult to explain. I would recommend (for your own sake) taking a placement exam at a university. I wish I had done that. I studied Japanese intensively on my own a few years ago, and am fairly confident that I achieved a proficiency around 3-4 college level semesters. If I had taken the placement exam while at the university (usually free for students), I would know for sure and I could put down my level with complete confidence. To error on the side of caution, I tend to say I studied "some" Japanese or not mention it at all; I would hate to overstate my abilities.

Aww hanx! That actually is really touching. It is strange when you start differentiating people from different threads. This is only about the third board I've been really active in, and the first one where I couldn't put faces to most of the names (the other two were punk boards in Chicago). It is so strange connecting people's ideas between threads. I feel like I have a pretty good idea about a few of the frequent posters on here, to the point where I automatically picture "them" when I read a post of theirs. I have a feeling LateAntique wears sweaters in the winter, I don't know why. Speaking of creepy cross threads relating, "Historical-Comparative Linguistics (4)" and "Internship in Geography (2)" sound really cool. What do you do for the geography internship?

Also, what "regional" are you studying? Between that and the "information services" master, what's up? From related interests, it sounds like the Middle East, but do you know what you want to do in the vast expanse of time that is the future? Are you to doing this as part of some officer's training or have you fully transitioned to civilian life? When you learned Japanese, were you living in Japan? I've found that makes a huge difference (obviously). As for my own language skills, in my "Diversity Statement" for the California schools I applied to, I went into individual differences I've noticed in the language and the "sociological insight" that its given me (it's amazing how much our word choices and grammar structures say about us, but in Turkish its even more pronounced). I wish I had had space for that in my Columbia statement of purpose (the only place I'm applying to besides Berkeley where someone actually studies Turkey) but they limited it to 500 words so there was barely enough space for anything. I think living abroad is usually looked on kindly and adcomms are good at factoring it in. As an undergrad, I took a class on Lao-tzu and Confucius which turned out to be more than half graduate, students almost all of whom had taught English in China or Taiwan at some point (It was a really good class even though I was the only person in the room who couldn't speak any Chinese... the professor frequently had to translate jokes and funny anecdotes for me).

To be completely honest, when I first read your mention of "combat skills" I totally thought it was a very dated Napoleon Dynamite-type parody, and thought "Oh God, those references weren't funny when the movie came out..." and then it took me two sentences to figure out you were serious as a heart attack. I also think a detailed record of your military training is good; I am applying to a bunch of programs outside of my field and they all emphasize a "willingness to be trained in xyz method". I'm impressed by military training, hopefully the adcomms will be too. Your maturity should stand out. All of my friends who enlisted or did ROTC matured really, really fast.

[alexis]

To be completely honest, when I first read your mention of "combat skills" I totally thought it was a very dated Napoleon Dynamite-type parody, and thought "Oh God, those references weren't funny when the movie came out..." and then it took me two sentences to figure out you were serious as a heart attack. I also think a detailed record of your military training is good; I am applying to a bunch of programs outside of my field and they all emphasize a "willingness to be trained in xyz method". I'm impressed by military training, hopefully the adcomms will be too. Your maturity should stand out. All of my friends who enlisted or did ROTC matured really, really fast.

I've been reading this thread and smiling to myself...I'm also a former military officer (and went through ROTC, etc). I don't have as many mad skills as Lauren, but I'm hoping it does help in the admissions process.

[Lauren the Librarian]

I have a feeling LateAntique wears sweaters in the winter, I don't know why. Speaking of creepy cross threads relating, "Historical-Comparative Linguistics (4)" and "Internship in Geography (2)" sound really cool. What do you do for the geography internship?

First off, LOL! It is awesome when personalities start emerging from these faceless posters. As for the internship, I was working in the map lab at my university library. My absolute favorite project I worked on there was processing series of maps in Arabic. It combined by cartography skills (geography major) with my knowledge of the Middle East and Arabic, and threw it all together with my love of and desire to work in libraries. It was a hopeless project that noone was ever going to get to because it required a unique skill set. That is, until I came along and said, "Ooh, ME! Gimme, gimme!"

Also, what "regional" are you studying? Between that and the "information services" master, what's up?

You got me! I actually tried to put my military experience behind me when I became a civilian again. But I got turned down for Information Studies for Fall 2009 and was forced to reevaluate my plans. I realized that I should get "proof" of my experience from the military in the form of a masters in Middle Eastern Studies. Most special and technical libraries require multiple masters and/or Ph.Ds anyway. I applied to a school that has a dual masters program for Information Studies and Middle Eastern Studies. I got accepted for the Information part for Spring 2010 and am waiting to hear back for the other program for Fall 2010.

I was never an officer. I joined as a puny private out of high school (to get money for college and all that). When I got out and went back to school, I decided on a lark to learn Japanese (never studied a Far East language before.) I was only taking 3 classes my first quarter during undergrad and I found I had 5-10 hours a day to watch Japanese soap operas on youtube, supplemented with readings and rote memorization of hiragana, katakana and kanji. I also had a friend in my 2nd language accquistion class (also a linguistics major) who was a Japanese foreign exchange student. We met up for a couple hours outside of class each week and took turns practicing our conversation skills.

I wish I had had space for that in my Columbia statement of purpose (the only place I'm applying to besides Berkeley where someone actually studies Turkey) but they limited it to 500 words so there was barely enough space for anything.

Tell me about it! All my experience is really hard to define, especially because I've never been to the Middle East! My experience is in Muslim immigrant communities in Europe and the US. I am so glad I had a higher word limit for my SoP or else I would have never been able to sell myself and those experiencs to the adcomm. They didn't want to see my CV (Information people, yes. Middle East no. Weird.) On the bright side, since I'm already at the school, I can always apply again next year if things don't go well this time around.

I totally hope you get in to where you want to go. The whole Turkish Studies stuff is awesome. Columbia provides hardcore funding, too. Berkeley might fall into a financial abyss in the next few years (boo California) but the faculty is still top notch.

[Lauren the Librarian]

I've been reading this thread and smiling to myself...I'm also a former military officer (and went through ROTC, etc). I don't have as many mad skills as Lauren, but I'm hoping it does help in the admissions process.

I'm sure it will, Ma'am. (Can't help it. I sat up straight as soon as I read you were an officer.) I don't have mad skills anymore and that's what makes me feel so weird to have it on my CV. I didn't go anywhere near that stuff on my SoP.

[alexis]

I'm sure it will, Ma'am. (Can't help it. I sat up straight as soon as I read you were an officer.) I don't have mad skills anymore and that's what makes me feel so weird to have it on my CV. I didn't go anywhere near that stuff on my SoP.

Lol...I always hated people calling me that...not a fan of the whole hierarchy thing...I am so not the military type, ironically. But based on what you've said, I'm fairly certain you were in the same branch as me, which means we are super awesome

I did briefly mention it in my personal statement, but more so because my management experience is related to...well, getting a PhD in management But you're right, otherwise, there's no real need to...many more relevant stuff for us to talk about on our SoP since we've moved on!

[jacib]

Lol...I always hated people calling me that...not a fan of the whole hierarchy thing...I am so not the military type, ironically. But based on what you've said, I'm fairly certain you were in the same branch as me, which means we are super awesome

I did briefly mention it in my personal statement, but more so because my management experience is related to...well, getting a PhD in management But you're right, otherwise, there's no real need to...many more relevant stuff for us to talk about on our SoP since we've moved on!

I first read your guys' exchange last night when I was quite drunk and I resisted writing "Aww the military is so cute sometimes" because I worried about being patronizing. But through the clearer lens of sobriety I still feel much the same sentiment, though I still hope it doesn't sound patronizing.

Lauren: Don't get me started on Muslim immigrant communities in Europe, never mind Europe's less than enlightened attitude towards Islamic countries in general (who knew a region which rightly criticized American racism and hypocrisy for generations would be so backwards?). The straight up racist/bigotted/religionist whatever bias you want to call it reasons to keep Turkey out of the EU... I mean, I assumed they'd at least make up non-Race/Religion based reasons even if those were the real reasons. The reason that prime ministers and foreign ministers (especially of France and Germany) feel comfortable giving in public seem like the kind that should be said with a wink and a nudge in a smoke-filled room at the Ole Boys Club. One of the reasons that I came to Turkey was that, while I was living in Austria (where my grandmother is from and where I am eligible for citizenship), the Turks were the only people nice to me. It was sickening to see posters that said "He stands for immigrants" "He stands for true Austrians", and it made me reflect that in America we at least have the decency to put "illegal" in front of that immigrant. Very few countries have the American/Canadian/Australian/New Zealander mentality about immigration.

Even in Turkey, I tell people I'm American (and I'm a white, normal looking American with blue eyes but not blond hair) and half the time they go "Okay but what's your memleket?" Memleket can mean anything from hometown to homeland to ancestral village, and if they bother to ask about my Memleket, saying "No really I'm America" rarely cuts. It's always where is your father from... (America) okay his father? (Germany) Okay so you're German. My friend Tyler and I went through this once and it got to the fact that his great grandparents were German and Dutch and Irish and English (I just said "Yeah, same thing" when he asked about my family) and the guy was like "Yeah that's really cool that you guys have normal, easy to say names, instead of funny German names like Rudiger or Tobias." Basic concepts like "Italian-American", "Asian-American" or even "African-American" are really hard to grasp in most other countries...

Anyway I'm really surprised you don't emphasize the military experience more... I feel like people probably emphasize way less formative experiences in their statements (One time, when on vacation, I totally saw third world poverty between my hotel and the beach, and it was like, really sad. I'm getting this degree to make sure I never have to see it again.). Are you guys worried about "liberal bias" or some such thing?