young undergrad needs advice!

[phasseli]

I'm currently a student at the University of San Francisco and will be graduating early, when I'll be 20 years old. I have a 3.6, haven't taken my GRE yet, speak Farsi fluently (learning arabic) and I've been interning for the California State Senate for the past year.

Do I need more time for work experience for the top tier schools to even consider me? Am I too young? I dream of going to Fletcher or SAIS, but with only 2 semesters of college left, the application process seems so intimidating.

Can someone please give me a realistic picture of what to expect.

It's okay to be harsh...I can take it =)

[jacib]

I'm currently a student at the University of San Francisco and will be graduating early, when I'll be 20 years old. I have a 3.6, haven't taken my GRE yet, speak Farsi fluently (learning arabic) and I've been interning for the California State Senate for the past year.

Do I need more time for work experience for the top tier schools to even consider me? Am I too young? I dream of going to Fletcher or SAIS, but with only 2 semesters of college left, the application process seems so intimidating.

Can someone please give me a realistic picture of what to expect.

It's okay to be harsh...I can take it =)

I'd post this in the political science section. They'd be more knowledgeable. I know a place like Kennedy encourages work experience, but honestly, look at the schools' websites. Often they will make it clear what they want; I had one school that said, "Though we don't require a masters, a student would need an exceptional record in a field relevant to their proposed course of study to be accepted"; after talking with people already at the school, it was made clear to me that they accept 0-1 students every year like this, so that it probably wasn't worth my time applying.

Taking time off is often a good thing and will help your application in most fields; I took off three years to live in a foreign country before going to back for a doctorate and I think it has really helped me. My friend who wants to do IR has been working for the Korean Foreign ministry for a year, mostly to improve her application (she was the one who told me about Kennedy).

Edited December 26, 2009 by jacib

[jacib]

Actually there's already a topic about it there:

[Pamphilia]

I'm currently a student at the University of San Francisco and will be graduating early, when I'll be 20 years old. I have a 3.6, haven't taken my GRE yet, speak Farsi fluently (learning arabic) and I've been interning for the California State Senate for the past year.

Do I need more time for work experience for the top tier schools to even consider me? Am I too young? I dream of going to Fletcher or SAIS, but with only 2 semesters of college left, the application process seems so intimidating.

Can someone please give me a realistic picture of what to expect.

It's okay to be harsh...I can take it =)

My sister is a current grad student at Fletcher and she interviews several applicants each week (the grad students there play a huge role in admissions). She complains often about young students straight out of undergrad who think that doing well in college qualifies them for the program. She also has spoken negatively several times about students who have graduated from undergrad early and are applying straight to program because (in her opinion) that indicates absolutely nothing about a candidate's ability for success in grad school. In fact, I think she usually knocks off a few points for it because she thinks it shows a lack of maturity and experience. Experience is EVERYTHING for Fletcher, apparently. I don't want to be mean, but if my sister's opinions represent the program's leanings in any way, they rarely even give a second glance at a 20-year-old applicant. If you want to be considered for a program like Fletcher, you need to get a LOT more experience under your belt--and I'm not talking like, a year or two interning on the Hill or anything.* My sister would tell you to go get out in the world and work/intern/get some experience, and come back in 6-10 years.

Sorry, I know this is probably not what you wanted to hear. But since she's been home for the holidays she has complained many times about applicants in your position.

*By the way, doing things like interning on the Hill or for a state legislature may get you good contacts to get better work experience which is very, very key (my sister's ridiculously impressive experience can all be traced to the contacts she made many years ago interning for a Congressman), but on its own that is not something a program like Fletcher would find impressive. Especially if you get a native Washingtonian like my sister interviewing you. She is totally put off when it comes to applicants who have worked in DC for a few years and get all puffed up about it. To those of us who grew up there, DC is just another city and simply working in the District isn't particularly special.

Again, I'm really sorry to be such a harsh buzzkill. And obviously I have no firsthand experience with this stuff, but I do hear about it a LOT from someone on the inside. Go get experience, especially overseas (if possible, with locals and not with a bunch of American "do-gooders" who never actually interact with the locals).

Edited December 26, 2009 by Pamphilia

[phasseli]

My sister is a current grad student at Fletcher and she interviews several applicants each week (the grad students there play a huge role in admissions). She complains often about young students straight out of undergrad who think that doing well in college qualifies them for the program. She also has spoken negatively several times about students who have graduated from undergrad early and are applying straight to program because (in her opinion) that indicates absolutely nothing about a candidate's ability for success in grad school. In fact, I think she usually knocks off a few points for it because she thinks it shows a lack of maturity and experience. Experience is EVERYTHING for Fletcher, apparently. I don't want to be mean, but if my sister's opinions represent the program's leanings in any way, they rarely even give a second glance at a 20-year-old applicant. If you want to be considered for a program like Fletcher, you need to get a LOT more experience under your belt--and I'm not talking like, a year or two interning on the Hill or anything.* My sister would tell you to go get out in the world and work/intern/get some experience, and come back in 6-10 years.

Sorry, I know this is probably not what you wanted to hear. But since she's been home for the holidays she has complained many times about applicants in your position.

*By the way, doing things like interning on the Hill or for a state legislature may get you good contacts to get better work experience which is very, very key (my sister's ridiculously impressive experience can all be traced to the contacts she made many years ago interning for a Congressman), but on its own that is not something a program like Fletcher would find impressive. Especially if you get a native Washingtonian like my sister interviewing you. She is totally put off when it comes to applicants who have worked in DC for a few years and get all puffed up about it. To those of us who grew up there, DC is just another city and simply working in the District isn't particularly special.

Again, I'm really sorry to be such a harsh buzzkill. And obviously I have no firsthand experience with this stuff, but I do hear about it a LOT from someone on the inside. Go get experience, especially overseas (if possible, with locals and not with a bunch of American "do-gooders" who never actually interact with the locals).

Thank you so much for the insight. You were an unbelievable amount of help. And you weren't a "harsh buzzkill" at all! It was basically the reality check I needed.

I'm not sure what I'm going to decide to do now that it's clear that I need more experience but I really appreciate your response. I have a lot of family in Tehran, I'm considering of going there for a year and gain some experience. (not sure what I would exactly do) Thank you again.

[phasseli]

I'd post this in the political science section. They'd be more knowledgeable. I know a place like Kennedy encourages work experience, but honestly, look at the schools' websites. Often they will make it clear what they want; I had one school that said, "Though we don't require a masters, a student would need an exceptional record in a field relevant to their proposed course of study to be accepted"; after talking with people already at the school, it was made clear to me that they accept 0-1 students every year like this, so that it probably wasn't worth my time applying.

Taking time off is often a good thing and will help your application in most fields; I took off three years to live in a foreign country before going to back for a doctorate and I think it has really helped me. My friend who wants to do IR has been working for the Korean Foreign ministry for a year, mostly to improve her application (she was the one who told me about Kennedy).

Thank you for the honesty.I guess it's pretty obvious that I'm a bit naive with expectations so I appreciate your response.

[jacib]

Thank you for the honesty.I guess it's pretty obvious that I'm a bit naive with expectations so I appreciate your response.

I'd contact the the schools directly, ask them how many students come directly from undergraduate programs. Seriously, that's the best place for info. Schools are generally pretty honest and open. What Pamphilia says is really useful too. Arabic and Persian will set you apart (with both of those, you could also pick up Turkish/Azeri fairly quickly, just for fun, even though all three are in completely different families). Maybe that would make a difference? Who knows but the departments. Ask.

Obviously be careful in Tehran... I don't know the Farsi, but in Turkish, we say Allah korusun! Teaching English is a good place to start (you can often earn decent money while having a lot of free time), and then with fluent English, I am sure you can easily find places to volunteer where you can get more experience applicable to what you want to do in the future. Or you can stay in America! Many options...

[Rory]

My sister is a current grad student at Fletcher and she interviews several applicants each week (the grad students there play a huge role in admissions). She complains often about young students straight out of undergrad who think that doing well in college qualifies them for the program. She also has spoken negatively several times about students who have graduated from undergrad early and are applying straight to program because (in her opinion) that indicates absolutely nothing about a candidate's ability for success in grad school. In fact, I think she usually knocks off a few points for it because she thinks it shows a lack of maturity and experience. Experience is EVERYTHING for Fletcher, apparently. I don't want to be mean, but if my sister's opinions represent the program's leanings in any way, they rarely even give a second glance at a 20-year-old applicant. If you want to be considered for a program like Fletcher, you need to get a LOT more experience under your belt--and I'm not talking like, a year or two interning on the Hill or anything.* My sister would tell you to go get out in the world and work/intern/get some experience, and come back in 6-10 years.

Sorry, I know this is probably not what you wanted to hear. But since she's been home for the holidays she has complained many times about applicants in your position.

*By the way, doing things like interning on the Hill or for a state legislature may get you good contacts to get better work experience which is very, very key (my sister's ridiculously impressive experience can all be traced to the contacts she made many years ago interning for a Congressman), but on its own that is not something a program like Fletcher would find impressive. Especially if you get a native Washingtonian like my sister interviewing you. She is totally put off when it comes to applicants who have worked in DC for a few years and get all puffed up about it. To those of us who grew up there, DC is just another city and simply working in the District isn't particularly special.

Again, I'm really sorry to be such a harsh buzzkill. And obviously I have no firsthand experience with this stuff, but I do hear about it a LOT from someone on the inside. Go get experience, especially overseas (if possible, with locals and not with a bunch of American "do-gooders" who never actually interact with the locals).

6-10 years? No, not true at all. I was accepted to Fletcher, SAIS, SIPA, etc. and certainly didn't have that much work experience, and neither did the majority of my classmates. To the OP: 2-3 years (ideally overseas work) should serve you fine. Yale or Chicago CIR might take you right out of undergrad, but the question then becomes how much you can really get out of one of these programs without work experience. If you want a more academic program, if you are looking for a pre-doctoral Masters or something, then you could be fine right out of undergrad.

Why do you want to attend a grad IR program?

[Pamphilia]

6-10 years? No, not true at all. I was accepted to Fletcher, SAIS, SIPA, etc. and certainly didn't have that much work experience, and neither did the majority of my classmates. To the OP: 2-3 years (ideally overseas work) should serve you fine. Yale or Chicago CIR might take you right out of undergrad, but the question then becomes how much you can really get out of one of these programs without work experience. If you want a more academic program, if you are looking for a pre-doctoral Masters or something, then you could be fine right out of undergrad.

Why do you want to attend a grad IR program?

I said 6-10 years simply because the OP will only be 20 when s/he graduates, and as I understand it the median age at such programs is 27 or 28.

Also, I think all of this REALLY depends on what degree and program someone is going for. The impression that I get is that less work/life experience/maturity-in-years is required for the academic sides of these programs and much more for the professional sides. Yet it's also important to keep in mind that some of the professional degree track students do interview the academic applicants, and bring their own biases in.

It's also important to keep in mind that, as established, this is NOT my area and I am getting all of this info second hand (though I ran my post past my sis after the fact and she said "YES! People need to hear this!"). But what is that annoying expression? "YMMV."

Edited December 27, 2009 by Pamphilia

[phasseli]

6-10 years? No, not true at all. I was accepted to Fletcher, SAIS, SIPA, etc. and certainly didn't have that much work experience, and neither did the majority of my classmates. To the OP: 2-3 years (ideally overseas work) should serve you fine. Yale or Chicago CIR might take you right out of undergrad, but the question then becomes how much you can really get out of one of these programs without work experience. If you want a more academic program, if you are looking for a pre-doctoral Masters or something, then you could be fine right out of undergrad.

Why do you want to attend a grad IR program?

To be honest, I really have no idea. I know I have a ton of loans to pay off from undergrad and if I attend a grad program, I wouldn't have to pay right away. An IR program because that's what interests me the most but I'm really not sure what else is out there. I guess I'm rushing things too fast.

[rising_star]

To be honest, I really have no idea. I know I have a ton of loans to pay off from undergrad and if I attend a grad program, I wouldn't have to pay right away. An IR program because that's what interests me the most but I'm really not sure what else is out there. I guess I'm rushing things too fast.

This is a terrible reason to go to graduate school. I recommend getting some work experience doing something because it will help you figure out what you want to do and help you pay down your student loans.

[Rory]

I couldn't agree more with rising_star - do not go to grad school just to defer loan payments!!! IR programs are expensive and you'll just be adding to the burden...

As for Pamphilia's response - yes, a good chunk of IR grad student are in the 25-27 range, but that is because they graduated at 22 or 23, then got a couple of years of work experience - if you are in an IR-related job, then after 2-3 years of working a graduate degree usually becomes necessary to advance - the next rung on the ladder almost always requires an MA of some sort, especially at NGOs and IGOs.

I definitely suggest that phaselli get some work experience prior to a Fletcher-type degree, but because of his/her young age, an extra year or two in a more academic Masters program may not be ill-advised (especially if scholarships are available). That is why I suggested something like Chicago CIR.