Seeking advice on applying to comp/rhet programs

[stumbleine]

Hey everybody,

I am a recent college graduate, long interested in pursuing comp/rhet at the graduate level. I plan to apply this year for fall 2017 admission. Originally, at the behest of my English lit professors and advisors who didn't know any better, I thought I could go straight to the PhD. But in my own research, I've discovered that most people pursuing comp/rhet get their MAs first, so now I'm on the hunt for MA programs.

Before I ask any questions, a little bit about myself: I have a plain-old BA in English from a small liberal arts college. I never took any formal classes in either comp or rhet, but I was a writing tutor, I wrote my senior honors thesis using rhetorical theory, worked with the writing center director to formulate an e-tutoring program for our center (in a for-credit independent study that included intensive research on the latest compositional pedagogies related to remote tutoring), I worked for a year as a copyeditor at a major company and am now a teaching assistant in a pre-college writing class, and I'm currently doing rhetoric-based research with the professor who mentored me on my thesis. I have a 3.9+ GPA and graduated with honors and awards in both English lit and communications, as I ran my school's literary magazine for two years and wrote/edited for the paper in a leadership position. In short, I have consistently done things related to writing and editing over my college career and in the year-plus since I've graduated. I think I will love this field. I like to think I have a competitive application despite my lack of experience in actual comp/rhet classes. My goal is to attend a fully funded master's program in something that can help me apply for comp/rhet PhD programs later on down the line.

 

So, my main concerns are as follows:

 

-Assuming a decent GRE score and SOP (and other common application elements), will my background likely make me a competitive candidate for funded programs? I know this is subjective and can highly vary, but unlike with more common programs (such as lit) it's harder to tell what my standing really is.

 

-If I apply to MA programs in English with a concentration or focus in composition and/or rhetoric (as opposed to a direct Master in Rhetoric, such as in Carnegie Mellon), does this still put me in good standing to apply to Comp/Rhet PhD programs later on? Maybe this is a dumb question, but I don't want to apply to a regular English program that only has informal concentrations in comp/rhet, only to discover that no reputable comp/rhet PhD program will take it. And I guess the larger concern is what types of programs are beneficial to doctoral study later on, versus which programs are not.

 

-Does anybody know of good MA programs in comp and/or rhet in the northeast (or within driving distance of NYC(? I've been referring to this list, http://www.mdcwss.com/directory/, but it seems somewhat incomplete and only focuses on writing specialties as opposed to rhetorical specialties (e.g., it only refers to Carnegie Mellon's MA in Professional Writing but not its MA in Rhetoric, it doesn't have Hofstra's Master's in Rhetorical studies, etc.). So far, I'm looking at Penn State, U Pittsburgh, Carnegie Mellon, Hofstra, LIU  Brooklyn, CUNY College of NY, and Rutgers. A link to a list, or any informal recommendations, would be greatly appreciated! I'll also note that I understand I may have to broaden my horizons, so I'm researching further-away programs, in the Midwest especially (Purdue, Ohio State, etc.).

 

-If a program offers both a PhD and an MA, and doesn't explicitly say you need a master's for the PhD, should I just apply for the PhD if that's what I ultimately want? For example, Carnegie Mellon has the MA in Rhetoric and a PhD -- should I just shoot for the PhD in the hopes I can at least be accepted into the MA? Or should I be hyper-specific and just apply for the MA if I think that's my best bet?

 

-Should I reach out to people in the program (the director, or professors I admire) if I want to maximize my chances? If I have a particular question then I will of course, but I'm asking if it's beneficial to express interest via email well in advance of my formal application. I hear this is common in the sciences but not in the humanities, but I'm unsure.

 

-Is a "graduate certificate" in comp and/or rhet worth anything? Specifically for applying to doctoral programs, or pursuing a writing- or editing-related field. It seems much less legit than a pure MA, but I'm not sure.

 

And I think that's about it. I know that's a lot, but I don't have much institutional support and I am relying on these forums and my own research!

 

If anybody has answers to these questions, or any other general advice, I would sincerely appreciate it!

 

 

[Dr. Old Bill]

Lots of great questions there, and since I'm not a rhet-comp person, I'll leave most of them for others to answer.

However, at the risk of banging the UMD drum a little too loudly and a little too often, it really sounds like UMD's M.A. program, with its certificate in rhet-comp, is a good potential fit for you. You're right that most strong rhet-comp programs take only candidates who have an M.A. in hand. That said, I know of several people at UMD who entered as M.A. students with an ostensible interest in literature, only to wind up focusing on rhet-comp over the course of their studies. This is bolstered by a lot of early (i.e.: first year) teaching opportunities. UMD really is one of the leaders in the field, and it's about a 3.5 hour drive from NYC...so it's definitely worth your consideration (in my slightly-biased-yet-still-humble opinion).

[klader]

Welcome, fellow rhet-comper!

From what you've listed here, I would say that you definitely seem like a competitive applicant. You have writing center experience (which is very valuable), undergraduate thesis experience (which, I'm guessing, will shape your writing sample), an excellent GPA, hopefully a decent GRE  (and by decent, I mean not failing. The GRE is usually just a requirement to pacify the graduate school), and you've taken on leadership roles (the TA position and developing a new WC program), which are all things admission committees look for!

Now on to your other questions (from my own personal and of course limited knowledge):

1.) I don't think it *really* matters if you do an English MA with a rhet/comp concentration or a true rhet/comp degree. To be honest, I don't know of very many "true" rhet/comp degrees. This has to do with a lot of longstanding politics and the structure of academia itself: most rhet/comp programs are still housed in the English department. Some are in their own departments, of course, but most aren't, which affects little things like what the degree can be called and stuff (do you have an MA in English with a concentration in Rhetoric and Composition, or do you have an MA in Rhetoric and Composition?! And is the field called Rhetoric and Composition, Rhetoric and Writing, etc?!? So much at play here.).

I feel that a well-respected English MA with a rhetoric and composition concentration (which, sometimes, means you STILL take all comp/rhet courses but the degree is simply housed in the English department) can help you get into a good PhD program just fine. It's all about what you learn, and each program has their own unique things to offer.

2.) I'm a Midwestener myself, so I'll let other people help you on this  (you did list some great programs already, though!)

3.) There don't seem to be as many programs that offer the joint MA/PhD for comp/rhet, but I think you'd still apply for the MA. You do obtain the actual MA degree from these programs first and then move on up to PhD standing (after doing whatever procedure the university requires), but I'm not sure how they want you to apply. Hopefully another member here can answer that or, actually, you might want to ask the program before you apply.

4.) I don't think there's any benefit in reaching out. Of course you should do so if you have any questions, but I wouldn't expect any kind of "one-up" from it. It's funny how different that is in the sciences!

 

5.) Again, I'm not familiar with this, but in the end, you just want to end up in a program where you can learn about rhet/comp AND teach (and in a program that's a good fit for you!). Most good rhet/comp programs will get their MA students teaching comp right away, which isn't always the case with literature programs (so I've heard). If a certificate program like UMD can do that for you, then great!

Well, I hope that helps! This is an exciting yet stressful process, and I wish you the best.

[kirbs005]

I'm applying this Fall for Rhet/Comp as well. I've got a mix of English department and Comm departments because I'm more focused on the rhetoric piece and less the composition piece, but obviously it depends on your focus as well.

Unfortunately I've just been working off a large mix of lists either from Googling "rhet/comp programs" and also just looking at strong English/Comm programs and digging through the university websites to find where their program lives/if they have a program. In addition to the website you linked, I've liked this one as well: http://associationdatabase.com/aws/RSA/pt/sp/resources_gradprograms And this map of doctorate programs: http://batchgeo.com/map/1a491427ce89c24f0206905a57091e6e

I know this isn't crazy helpful, but that's what I've found. Let me know if you want to talk more.

[rhetoricus aesalon]

Welcome, stumbleine! You've received some great advice here, and I'll try to supplement with my experience and observations.

1. I agree, I suspect you will be a competitive applicant given the information you've listed here. Even though programs in rhet/comp are proliferating across the country, it is still relatively uncommon for undergraduates to have specializations in rhet/comp. Your experience will make you stand out, especially if they relate to your research interests.
2. Professionally speaking, there is no difference between a graduate degree in English with a specialization in rhet/comp and a degree in rhet/comp. What matters more is that there are faculty members at the institution who you can work with (i.e. are respected in the field of rhet/comp and can direct the kind of work you want to do). As klader suggested, differences in how a degree is titled has far more to do with individual university histories and politics than the quality or robustness of education you will receive in either type of program.
3. There are a lot of good programs in the northeast, and you have some of the best listed here. I support your feeling of expanding your search if possible, too. Not because programs in the NE aren't great, but cost of living is higher and even if you're fully funded you will still be living off a pittance. I can go into more detail about what I know about a number of the programs you've listed in a PM if you're interested. And the map kirbs005 shared with you is, I feel, the going standard for rhet/comp programs. Rhetoric Review published a listing of doctoral program in the field (which I think is what the other link kirbs shared is based off of) but it's nearly a decade old: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~enos/. 
4. This is going to be completely program specific and you will need to ask the program. I know that Purdue will just place students without a masters into their MA program even if they applied to the PhD, but other programs may mark you as ineligible and reject your application. 
5. This can be a great way of making connections, but isn't something I would expect will make you more competitive for a program. Admissions procedures can vary from program to program, so sometimes the person you connect with may have no impact whatsoever on your admission. Making connections is, in my opinion, never a bad thing, though. Rhet/comp is still a small world and you might benefit in the future from using application season as an excuse to reach out and meet other scholars. I will say that I did not personally reach out to faculty when I was applying to schools.
6. I'm less familiar with certificates, but my assumption is that certificate programs are ways of making students more competitive for the job market when they otherwise would have no exposure to rhet/comp. Regardless, these programs I assume will still have core faculty in rhet/comp, which again is the most important thing to be looking for in programs. So I wouldn't necessarily be turned off by these programs, no.

Happy to be in touch more if I can help with anything else/share more of my experience. Best wishes for your application season!

[stumbleine]

Wow, thank you so much everybody! This has all been so helpful. Since I got such varied responses, I'll respond to people individually.

 

Wyatt's Terps -- You're not the first person to bang on the UMD drum, haha. My thesis advisor did the same, and it's definitely a program I'm looking into. My biggest issue is with the certificate as opposed to the MA, but if there really are dedicated comp/rhet faculty members then it may be well worth it. And I do love Maryland...

 

klader -- Always nice talking to a fellow rhet/comper! I'm glad to know my application seems competitive. I don't really like thinking of myself in that way, but I guess it's just necessary in this game. I appreciate your encouragement! And moreover, I appreciate all of your sound advice -- I was quite uncertain about the program title thing and the benefits of reaching out etc., so your explanations are quite helpful. Wishing you the best as well!

 

kirbs005 -- I see we're in a similar boat! I wish you all the best. I've been doing the same thing as you, haha. Googling and hoping for the best. Thanks for sharing those links! I've come across them in my searching as well, but now I'm a bit more focused on MA programs instead of PhD programs. If I may ask, how about yourself? Are you applying to master's or doctoral programs, and for what reason? Would love to talk more -- feel free to PM me if you want to exchange notes or talk about anything. A little part of me is still considering Comm too.

 

Chadillac -- Your warm welcome and advice are much appreciated. I know I have to consider things like cost of living as well, and based on what you said I think I am going to stick to MA programs to be on the safe side (and I think that's a better idea anyway). I would certainly appreciate that PM you'd mentioned, because getting a good list down has been quite a struggle.

 

Once again, thanks everybody! I am feeling better about everything, but any further advice from y'all are others would still be great!