PhDs and Long Distance Relationships

[GopherGrad]

So, yesterday my girlfriend was informed that made it to the Oral Assessment round of the State Department's interview process. If she were to get an offer, she'd likely be expected in DC for training late, late this year or early next (just before I'd find out about admissions). If I get into an interesting program we're going to have some decisions to make.

Niether of us are very keen on doing the long distance thing. We're investigating the flexibility of our respective options, hoping that it might be possible to swing my education with only a year or so apart. So ... from the perspective of a PhD student looking to study IR/development topics, how does that look?

Are there opportunities to spend a year at an overseas uni? Take a sabbatical for family reasons and return?

I also noticed that most programs don't require more than 16 or so courses. Is it possible to do one's reasearch and writing away from one's uni? Take summers off or random semesters off? Enroll in the occasional course on an on-line basis? I assume these affect funding through teaching or RA-ing.

How would you approach this? I imagine some of you are...

[carrar]

So, yesterday my girlfriend was informed that made it to the Oral Assessment round of the State Department's interview process. If she were to get an offer, she'd likely be expected in DC for training late, late this year or early next (just before I'd find out about admissions). If I get into an interesting program we're going to have some decisions to make.

Niether of us are very keen on doing the long distance thing. We're investigating the flexibility of our respective options, hoping that it might be possible to swing my education with only a year or so apart. So ... from the perspective of a PhD student looking to study IR/development topics, how does that look?

Are there opportunities to spend a year at an overseas uni? Take a sabbatical for family reasons and return?

I also noticed that most programs don't require more than 16 or so courses. Is it possible to do one's reasearch and writing away from one's uni? Take summers off or random semesters off? Enroll in the occasional course on an on-line basis? I assume these affect funding through teaching or RA-ing.

How would you approach this? I imagine some of you are...

Some things to think about for you:

-I have read on some schools' pages that there is time in residence (or whatever it is called) required. This may vary. Some schools also offer reciprocal relationships with other schools, but that's on an individual school basis.

-If you do take summers or semesters off or defer, think about both financial and opportunity costs. You might lose out on a fellowship or assistantship. And the longer it takes for you to finish your PhD, the longer you will be living as a grad student and delaying your career.

-Depending on where your girlfriend is posted, you might not be able to go. Usually FSOs (I'm assuming this is what her interview is for) have to serve in a hardship post early in their careers where family cannot accompany them. If you were to accompany her, you'd have to be married. Even if you were married, you might not be able to go where she is. And even if you were married and could go, there might not be a university around for you to study at.

Those are just brief thoughts, but you may always be able to explore your options and work together. It might be okay with you to take longer as a grad student. Or you might be able to spend only one year apart because you both find great places to study/work. But make sure you know about the life of an FSO (move every 2 years, sometimes to unsavory places), because if you are married, her career will definitely affect your career prospects, even when you do have your PhD. Think about what you want in 10 years, not just in 1-2.

(I'm not being unsympathetic, but the FSO question is one I had to tackle a few years ago and wanted to look at starkly. I'm now also examining a long-distance thing, too, so I really feel you.)

[peppermint.beatnik]

The above poster provided some great advice.

I'm just wondering why neither of you are not interested in long distance (in the short-term, at least)

[GopherGrad]

Yeah, I excluded some of the info your post implicates for the sake of brevity.

I'm fairly familiar with the FSO lifestyle; I did an internship for them during law school and thought pretty seriously about making it a career. My understanding is that spouses are only banned from Iraq currently. I've asked a State connection about those details.

The financial issue worries me more than delaying my career. In fact, while I worry about the ramifications for our relationship if I turn down an interesting PhD offer (resentment, etc.), I could probably aimlessly follow her globe trotting for a few years afterward and be very happy. I'm knowledge driven, not career driven. At that point we might need to re-evaluate the balance of our careers, but she'll have close to ten years in by then and might be itching for a change.

[GopherGrad]

P.B.,

I think it's a stretch to call five years "short term", for starters.

I can't articulate her part very well. She hasn't taken even really short term seperation well, though, and has said that longer terms would be "workable, but not ideal" in that sort of voice that says "to be avoided at almost any cost".

My part is from experience. I dated overseas during law school (Helsinki to Minneapolis). I focus on relationships naturally, and while the missing wasn't terrible in strict emotional sense, I ignored my classes to work so that I could ignore my classes to travel to see her. I was disappointed in my performance as a student and fear (know) that I'd make the same mistake again.

It's sort of a "have you cake and eat it, too" issue, which works out if your S.O. isn't similarly pre-disposed.

[peppermint.beatnik]

I do actually consider five-years "short-term!" I don't think five years, out of one's life, is much.

However, for an ldr to work, I think both people have to be on board. It doesn't sound like either of you are particularly keen. Like you, I would resent not being able to pursue a PhD.

I've done long-distance on and off for 4 years, including 11 months overseas. I'm applying to do a PhD, which means another 5 years. We don't have much difficulty making this work; however, we have three different orientations-me, him, us. If either partner is not like this, to some extent, it could cause problems.

There's other factors, of course, that make mine work, but those are the basics.

Edited January 28, 2010 by peppermint.beatnik

[GopherGrad]

Heh. I see your point; it's a personal thing.

For me I'm not sure it's as much orientation within the relationship as it is a different perspective and a pronounced set of priorities entirely my own. A consistent, healthy relationship takes precedence over my career; I work to support my relationships. I recognize that work is a big part of life and it sucks to be bored through it, so I'm willing to invest in my career, but...

I'm also disinclined to think that I've got much time guaranteed to me. Five years maybe isn't much if you look at 80 as your total. But if I died at 50, I'd spend almost third of my remaining time without the love of my life snoring gently next to me. For me, that's the point where my life goals start to conflict.

Plus, I'd be missing the years with the best sex.

[peppermint.beatnik]

Do what feels right for you.

I think you mean years with most physically capable sex, not best sex, necessarily.

Good luck.

[GopherGrad]

That last part was only meant to be funny, but your response was really great. Thanks for all the help!

[flyers29]

This might come off as selfish on your part....but I think the best option would honestly be to have her put off the FSO thing till you finish your Ph.D. I do realize that the application process is difficult etc, but otherwise you're probably not going to see each other much over that ~5 years till you're done. Even during dissertation writing, you're not going to want to go live somewhere unstable (both for technological reasons and the fact that you're not covered if something bad goes down as you're not married). Just something to consider.

[GopherGrad]

Yeah, for us, unfortunately, it will probably have to be one or the other.

[franglaisish]

Gopher, forgive me if you already addressed this, but where are you applying? There are a number of great programs within a few hours of DC (DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Princeton, even NYC, etc) and my quick scan of the thread seemed to indicate that your SO would probably not have more than a year or so out of the country. You might be able to manipulate the situation so that you are long distance during the week but together each weekend.

With all due respect to flyers29, I think that you should tread very, very carefully if you plan to ask her to hold off on an FSO career until you finish. To my ear, not only does it sound selfish, it is extremely selfish. After all, a lot can change in 5 years- maybe you have a few kids in grad school, she needs to find some other job, etc and the FSO job becomes no longer feasible. If you do propose that she defer, I would also suggest thinking about whether you can put off school for a year and then try to find somewhere close to her in DC. Both grad school and long distance is hard enough that you don't want to start out with resentment.

Good luck. I've been doing both long distance and multi country for almost two years now, and it really sucks.

[flyers29]

Gopher, forgive me if you already addressed this, but where are you applying? There are a number of great programs within a few hours of DC (DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Princeton, even NYC, etc) and my quick scan of the thread seemed to indicate that your SO would probably not have more than a year or so out of the country. You might be able to manipulate the situation so that you are long distance during the week but together each weekend.

With all due respect to flyers29, I think that you should tread very, very carefully if you plan to ask her to hold off on an FSO career until you finish. To my ear, not only does it sound selfish, it is extremely selfish. After all, a lot can change in 5 years- maybe you have a few kids in grad school, she needs to find some other job, etc and the FSO job becomes no longer feasible. If you do propose that she defer, I would also suggest thinking about whether you can put off school for a year and then try to find somewhere close to her in DC. Both grad school and long distance is hard enough that you don't want to start out with resentment.

Good luck. I've been doing both long distance and multi country for almost two years now, and it really sucks.

Might want to re-check that figure, could very well change your opinion.

[franglaisish]

Might want to re-check that figure, could very well change your opinion.

Good point flyers. There are a couple of figures floating around this thread. Gopher implied one year when he wrote "Are there opportunities to spend a year at an overseas uni?". Carrar's take requires much more distance: "move every 2 years, sometimes to unsavory places". I went with Gopher, as he started the thread and hopefully knows what his SO is interviewing for.

My basic point still stands though. Earlier in the thread Gopher wrote "....I worry about the ramifications for our relationship if I turn down an interesting PhD offer (resentment, etc.)". I just want to raise the possibility that this sentiment cuts both ways. FSO positions are hard to get (like PhD slots), and the gvt's funding for hires tends to oscillate. At various points Gopher has said that s/he is "knowledge driven, not career driven and that a "consistent, healthy relationship takes precedence over my career". With the caveat that Gopher is the only person here who knows the SO and her hierarchy of preferences, it sounds like Gopher might be the best candidate for trailing SO.

Anyway, Gopher you asked about taking time away from school. I have definitely seen it done, usually by students in my bf's computer science program and less so among the PhDs in my home department (selection bias alert- if they're gone I don't know them as MA students have a shorter time horizon). I think that permission for working at a distance tends to depend on your desired level of funding, supervision that you require as well as your relationship with your advisor, etc but it can be done. All of the people I know that have gone very far to be with an SO for periods of months or years have been married. Since you are IR/development, if you do end up traveling with her, you could end up with some really, really sweet opportunities for field research

[flyers29]

Good point flyers. There are a couple of figures floating around this thread. Gopher implied one year when he wrote "Are there opportunities to spend a year at an overseas uni?". Carrar's take requires much more distance: "move every 2 years, sometimes to unsavory places". I went with Gopher, as he started the thread and hopefully knows what his SO is interviewing for.

My basic point still stands though. Earlier in the thread Gopher wrote "....I worry about the ramifications for our relationship if I turn down an interesting PhD offer (resentment, etc.)". I just want to raise the possibility that this sentiment cuts both ways. FSO positions are hard to get (like PhD slots), and the gvt's funding for hires tends to oscillate. At various points Gopher has said that s/he is "knowledge driven, not career driven and that a "consistent, healthy relationship takes precedence over my career". With the caveat that Gopher is the only person here who knows the SO and her hierarchy of preferences, it sounds like Gopher might be the best candidate for trailing SO.

Anyway, Gopher you asked about taking time away from school. I have definitely seen it done, usually by students in my bf's computer science program and less so among the PhDs in my home department (selection bias alert- if they're gone I don't know them as MA students have a shorter time horizon). I think that permission for working at a distance tends to depend on your desired level of funding, supervision that you require as well as your relationship with your advisor, etc but it can be done. All of the people I know that have gone very far to be with an SO for periods of months or years have been married. Since you are IR/development, if you do end up traveling with her, you could end up with some really, really sweet opportunities for field research

Again, I'm just speaking from the perspective of someone who is a little bit familiar with how the first few years of an FSO's career are (i.e. 3-5 years out of country at a stretch). YMMV. All I'm saying is that if you're going to plan something like this you have to consider the worst-case scenario (such as if it's somewhere he can't move to, the difficulties and sometimes virtual impossibility of moving around with an FSO as your SO without being married to them, etc). But I'm pretty sure Gopher knows this, nor am I going to continue to belabor the point as it's straying away from the original point of the thread.

Edited February 2, 2010 by flyers29