Williams MA questions

[hoawouldbe]

Hi all,

I have a quick question. How likely would my admission be to Williams if I already hold an MA in art history? Would my already holding an MA make my application more or less likely, and would it mean funding would be much harder to find? I would be an international applicant. The MA I hold is from the Courtauld. I intend to pursue a PhD in the UK (Cambridge, most likely) in a few years, but I would love the opportunity to study in the US and to stay in education a while longer. If funding was a possibility for me, then I would consider applying. Perhaps I'm a little mad.

[hoawouldbe]

Anyone?

[MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou]

I'm pretty sure it would make your admission a lot LESS likely, if you were considered at all. You already have a master's in the field, from the Courtauld no less - why would you need another? Master's programs are designed to teach you specific things, which you (I assume) already learned at the Courtauld - so the next logical step would be to apply for PhD programs. An admissions committee would be confused as to why you are applying for a duplicate degree, and likely would consider it a poor investment (of time and/or money). Getting a second MA in the same field probably also isn't going to help you get into a PhD program - you'd be better off taking one-off courses, or getting some research/publication/curatorial experience, etc. 

What is preventing you from applying for PhD programs now, if you are interested in continuing your education? If your goals for getting another MA are to study in the US and to stay in education longer, then I'm confused as to why you wouldn't consider PhD programs in the United States instead of, or in addition to, applying at Cambridge.

Edited March 20, 2017 by MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou

[hoawouldbe]

Thank for your reply, MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou (that's a mouthful!).

 

That's exactly what I had thought. I might yet consider applying for PhD programmes in the US, but what's been putting me off is the time commitment: it would take seven to nine years, versus three to four years in the UK. I could do a Williams MA plus a UK PhD in five years, six at most. I thought this might have been a way to experience the US education system while still finishing one-three years earlier than I would in a US PhD programme. But you're right: it's a no runner.

[MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou]

6 hours ago, hoawouldbe said:

Thank for your reply, MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou (that's a mouthful!).

 

That's exactly what I had thought. I might yet consider applying for PhD programmes in the US, but what's been putting me off is the time commitment: it would take seven to nine years, versus three to four years in the UK. I could do a Williams MA plus a UK PhD in five years, six at most. I thought this might have been a way to experience the US education system while still finishing one-three years earlier than I would in a US PhD programme. But you're right: it's a no runner.

LOL, you can call me Schwartz! :-)

I think the differences between European-style and US-style programs are really interesting. I could be wrong (this is just what I've heard from a few prospective POIs who went to European-style programs), but U.S.-style programs seem to prepare you more for a career in academia. The people I've spoken with said the shorter PhD programs in Europe have little to no coursework, and are sometimes just a few years to write your dissertation under faculty guidance. You get your degree, but you don't necessarily get any of the professional development skills you need (teaching, other forms of academic writing/publishing, networking, grant applications, etc.). It might be something to look into.

[hoawouldbe]

That's a good point, and one worth taking into consideration.

I will have to consider again US PhD programmes—that is, if my original plan, to apply to Williams for their MA, is entirely implausible.

[Melatonin]

On 3/16/2017 at 3:31 PM, hoawouldbe said:

Hi all,

I have a quick question. How likely would my admission be to Williams if I already hold an MA in art history? Would my already holding an MA make my application more or less likely, and would it mean funding would be much harder to find? I would be an international applicant. The MA I hold is from the Courtauld. I intend to pursue a PhD in the UK (Cambridge, most likely) in a few years, but I would love the opportunity to study in the US and to stay in education a while longer. If funding was a possibility for me, then I would consider applying. Perhaps I'm a little mad.

I doubt anyone on this forum has enough knowledge of Williams' admissions process to answer this question. Your best bet would probably be to email the department and ask directly.

[MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou]

4 hours ago, Melatonin said:

I doubt anyone on this forum has enough knowledge of Williams' admissions process to answer this question. Your best bet would probably be to email the department and ask directly.

Even if the OP CAN get in, that still leaves the question of why they should complete a second master's in the same field. Unless they feel they received a poor education from the Courtauld (unlikely), why do it?

[hoawouldbe]

6 hours ago, MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou said:

Even if the OP CAN get in, that still leaves the question of why they should complete a second master's in the same field. Unless they feel they received a poor education from the Courtauld (unlikely), why do it?

As I said above, I want to get in for purely selfish reasons: I enjoy education, and would cherish the opportunity to remain in a taught programme for another two years; I would like to study in the US for a period of time. Maybe I'll email the department and ask. Otherwise I may begin to research PhD programmes in the US.

[kaufdichglücklich]

I actually know multiple people who got a second MA after Courtauld, because (as I'm sure you're aware) while it's prestigious, at the end of the day it is a one year program, and there is only so much you can learn in one year. While I have not personally gone to Courtauld I know many people who have and it sounds like the quality and benefit of the program varies greatly across courses. I think people in our field are pretty aware of this too. So long story short, I would still definitely apply to Williams. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by kaufdichglücklich

[MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou]

1 hour ago, kaufdichglücklich said:

I actually know multiple people who got a second MA after Courtauld, because (as I'm sure you're aware) while it's prestigious, at the end of the day it is a one year program, and there is only so much you can learn in one year. While I have not personally gone to Courtauld I know many people who have and it sounds like the quality and benefit of the program varies greatly across courses. I think people in our field are pretty aware of this too. So long story short, I would still definitely apply to Williams. 

I still think it would be wiser to apply to PhD programs. For one thing, many PhD programs at major universities are now offering only joint MA/PhD programs, so you can always take the extra coursework if you need it (and already having an MA, you likely have an advantage over BAs in applying). Applying for another terminal master's program means going through the same application process in another two years. 

Look, I mean, bottom line is OP CAN apply to Williams or other master's programs. I'm simply saying I don't see any benefits to doing this that you wouldn't get from a PhD program, WITHOUT the two extra years.

[hoawouldbe]

2 hours ago, kaufdichglücklich said:

I actually know multiple people who got a second MA after Courtauld, because (as I'm sure you're aware) while it's prestigious, at the end of the day it is a one year program, and there is only so much you can learn in one year. While I have not personally gone to Courtauld I know many people who have and it sounds like the quality and benefit of the program varies greatly across courses. I think people in our field are pretty aware of this too. So long story short, I would still definitely apply to Williams. 

 

Hmmm. So I could emphasise the shortness of my existing MA if I were to apply to Williams.

 

32 minutes ago, MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou said:

I still think it would be wiser to apply to PhD programs. For one thing, many PhD programs at major universities are now offering only joint MA/PhD programs, so you can always take the extra coursework if you need it (and already having an MA, you likely have an advantage over BAs in applying). Applying for another terminal master's program means going through the same application process in another two years. 

Look, I mean, bottom line is OP CAN apply to Williams or other master's programs. I'm simply saying I don't see any benefits to doing this that you wouldn't get from a PhD program, WITHOUT the two extra years.

 

Yes, but as I said above, I could do the Williams MA in two years and then return closer to home to complete a PhD in three to four years, and still finish both degrees in five to six years, which is potentially several years less than a US PhD.

I think I will apply to US PhD programmes regardless, though I think I would prefer Williams MA + UK PhD to a US PhD alone. I'm not sure. Plus, to me at least, it seems as getting accepted into top US PhD programmes is practically impossible.

[Melatonin]

7 hours ago, hoawouldbe said:

So I could emphasise the shortness of my existing MA if I were to apply to Williams.

If you can articulate the reasons another MA is crucial to your education, it shouldn't be a problem. (Saying you enjoy school probably won't cut it.) But Williams isn't necessarily the right program if your aim is to jump right into a dissertation afterward. Do what's right for you, but do your research.

[hoawouldbe]

9 hours ago, Melatonin said:

If you can articulate the reasons another MA is crucial to your education, it shouldn't be a problem. (Saying you enjoy school probably won't cut it.) But Williams isn't necessarily the right program if your aim is to jump right into a dissertation afterward. Do what's right for you, but do your research.

I will have to consider it carefully. My aim would be to pursue a three-four year PhD afterwards, yes.

While in theory I like the idea of pursuing a PhD in the US, I don't know if I could live there for the best part of a decade. The Williams MA appeals to me because with it I could scratch my study-in-the-US itch without committing the next seven or eight years of my life to living there.

Is the Williams MA the best terminal MA in the US? I should add that I would need funding, so while other MAs might also be quite good, if the institutions don't offer funding opportunities then it's a non runner.