looking for advice for 2019 developmental psychology application

[Yiyu Liu]

     Hi everyone, I'm Yiyu. now I'm a sophomore in Peking University, China. At present I'm seriously considering applying for developmental psychology Phd programs when I graduate. However, the relevant information in the forum of my country is scarce, so I come to gradcafe for help. 

    Now my GPA is around 3.7(The best student in my department get 3.8+) and my major GPA is around 3.8. My ranking in my department is around top 20% or top 25%. Though my University is almost the best University in my country, the ranking of the psychology department is only about top 100 in the world, thus my GPA is by no means competitive enough. Last October I took the GRE psych and got an 810(rank 99%), but I guess it does not play an important role in the process of admission except for clinical programs. Last month I took the GRE general test and got Q168+V153+AW4. I know it is not a solid score so I will take it again this September. 

    As for the researching experience, Last year I served as an RA in an social psy lab, doing some minor work such as translating the experiment materials and running experiments. Last semester, I took a course named the experiments of experimental psychology. For the course project, I cooperated with three other students and conducted a small study of our own. This summer I will go to Indiana University to be an RA in an developmental lab. Also, I'm considering starting my own research this semester.

   Now I have a few questions:

   1 What is a relatively "safe" GRE score and GPA? Will the admission committee consider my GRE psych score in the process of making decisions?

   2  What is  poster and What is conference presentation? How can I get them?

   3  Is the developmental program hard to get in?

   4  Is publication really important in the application of developmental programs? Compared to cognitive experiments, the developmental, especially infant and child experiments is really             hard to do. I mean, it really takes time to recruit young participants. 

   5 What should I do to make myself a more promising applicant?

Thank you for your help!

    

[almondicecream]

Hello! I don't have time to fully answer all your questions, but here is my opinion.

1. Safe GRE scores for the top programs are any scores above 90th percentile. Some people might say 85th percentile. I've heard GRE psych score is potentially useful if the applicant does not have a psychology major in undergrad (to show that they do, in fact, know basic psychology). It's supposed to be pretty useless for people who come from top 100 US universities. Outside of applicants from these universities, I'm not sure if it would be helpful.

2. A poster is somewhat like a small version of a published paper. It shows that you are involved more deeply in a project beyond just running experiments and entering data. Conference presentations (if you're talking about "talks" rather than posters) are pretty difficult for undergraduates to obtain. You should aim for a couple posters first. After then, you could consider whether you have enough data to put together a talk. Posters and talks are submitted to conferences like SPSP, APS, etc. Note that SPSP is for social psych (I'm sure there are equivalent conferences for dev psych).

3. You can somewhat use the length of the main gradcafe threads for each area (clinical psychology fall 2017; social psychology fall 2017; developmental psychology fall 2017; industrial/organizational psychology fall 2017) as a rough estimate for how easy/difficult it is to get into the top 50 programs for an area. For example, the thread for clinical psychology this year is by far the biggest thread. The social psychology thread is the next largest. The industrial/organizational psychology and school psychology threads are much smaller. Clinical psychology is also definitely the most competitive, followed by social psychology. I/O psych and school psych are significantly less competitive.

4. Publications are definitely, definitely not required at all to get into the top 30 dev psych programs. They're not even required for top 30 social psych programs (for example, for the first year PhD students at one of the top 5 social psych programs, I know that 4 of them did not have any published papers when they were accepted, and 1 did).

5. I don't know how international applicants should do anything differently, but I just know what domestic applicants typically do. Most important is having lots and lots of research experience. Not only that, but you should also be getting more deeply involved in the labs that you're a part of. It's important to find a lab where you feel like you're learning a lot about the research process rather than just running participants and entering data but never doing more in the lab. Posters are nice, but they often are just a byproduct of you having become a very advanced research assistant within a lab. The good thing about psychology PhD admissions is that they're a "war of attrition." Assuming your GPA is significantly above 3.0 and your GRE scores are above 85th percentile, the only remaining part is research experience. Those who have the most research experience, who are doing the most advanced tasks in their current labs, are the ones who usually get admitted. So it usually ends up being a matter of who is willing to do research for years and years to prove that they have the grit, the passion, and the skills to succeed in a program.

Good luck.

[transfatfree]

Starting early is a great step! I agree with what almondicecream said and have heard similar things. I'd just like to add certain things you may want to pay attention to as an international student. 

1. While people may say that some supervisors will consider your non-native background and cut you some slack when it comes to GRE verbal and AW, I believe you can still do better than that. Getting great TOEFL scores can somehow make up to that, but you should check the university websites carefully as many universities now have specific requirements for international students who want to be considered for teaching assistantship. It has something to do with the lack of oral English skills in some international students in the past. I have seen requirements ranging from 25 to 28 for your TOEFL speaking score. Just something to bear in mind. Also, as a developmental graduate student, you may need to collect data from children and interact with parents. It's thus also possible for them to require better English communication skills.

2. You can submit presentation proposals to international conferences. Just make sure you pay attention to their deadlines, requirements, and target audiences. I'm sure there are also some national conferences in China. 

3. Some universities publish statistics. For example, http://psychology.berkeley.edu/students/graduate-program/faq-general-admissions. You can say it's competitive as most candidates are well-qualified. You can see there were applicants from Peking University who got in. I'm sure you can ask around and seek advice from professors from your department about who they are and what they did. But in general, Chinese students tend to do cognitive psychology and neuroscience, which require more technical knowledge.

4. I would say if you want to stand out, you should try to publish. If you work for a good research lab, recruitment is more of the professor's concern than yours. You may help with recruitment, but usually they will tell you how.

5. As I said above, you need to convince your supervisor that they should choose you over local applicants. Besides English communication skills, cultural differences can also be an issue. They need to be assured that you'll be able to adapt to life in a different country while staying productive as a researcher.

Another thing you may need to is the budget cut that has hit public universities hard. Some public universities are concerned about funding international students who are not eligible for in-state tuition. Private universities usually have more resources. However, the safest bet is to find a supervisor who is doing research that aligns with your interest and is externally funded. Some grants include funding a PhD student in their budget so the department does not have to pay for that student and the supervisor has more autonomy in who they want.

I was once taught by a developmental psychologist who did her undergrad at Peking University and her PhD in the US. So it's also possible for you. Good luck!

[Yiyu Liu]

7 hours ago, almondicecream said:

Hello! I don't have time to fully answer all your questions, but here is my opinion.

1. Safe GRE scores for the top programs are any scores above 90th percentile. Some people might say 85th percentile. I've heard GRE psych score is potentially useful if the applicant does not have a psychology major in undergrad (to show that they do, in fact, know basic psychology). It's supposed to be pretty useless for people who come from top 100 US universities. Outside of applicants from these universities, I'm not sure if it would be helpful.

2. A poster is somewhat like a small version of a published paper. It shows that you are involved more deeply in a project beyond just running experiments and entering data. Conference presentations (if you're talking about "talks" rather than posters) are pretty difficult for undergraduates to obtain. You should aim for a couple posters first. After then, you could consider whether you have enough data to put together a talk. Posters and talks are submitted to conferences like SPSP, APS, etc. Note that SPSP is for social psych (I'm sure there are equivalent conferences for dev psych).

3. You can somewhat use the length of the main gradcafe threads for each area (clinical psychology fall 2017; social psychology fall 2017; developmental psychology fall 2017; industrial/organizational psychology fall 2017) as a rough estimate for how easy/difficult it is to get into the top 50 programs for an area. For example, the thread for clinical psychology this year is by far the biggest thread. The social psychology thread is the next largest. The industrial/organizational psychology and school psychology threads are much smaller. Clinical psychology is also definitely the most competitive, followed by social psychology. I/O psych and school psych are significantly less competitive.

4. Publications are definitely, definitely not required at all to get into the top 30 dev psych programs. They're not even required for top 30 social psych programs (for example, for the first year PhD students at one of the top 5 social psych programs, I know that 4 of them did not have any published papers when they were accepted, and 1 did).

5. I don't know how international applicants should do anything differently, but I just know what domestic applicants typically do. Most important is having lots and lots of research experience. Not only that, but you should also be getting more deeply involved in the labs that you're a part of. It's important to find a lab where you feel like you're learning a lot about the research process rather than just running participants and entering data but never doing more in the lab. Posters are nice, but they often are just a byproduct of you having become a very advanced research assistant within a lab. The good thing about psychology PhD admissions is that they're a "war of attrition." Assuming your GPA is significantly above 3.0 and your GRE scores are above 85th percentile, the only remaining part is research experience. Those who have the most research experience, who are doing the most advanced tasks in their current labs, are the ones who usually get admitted. So it usually ends up being a matter of who is willing to do research for years and years to prove that they have the grit, the passion, and the skills to succeed in a program.

Good luck.

Thank you so much! Though you said that you didn't have time to fully answer all my quesitions, your answer still help me a lot.  You revealed to me something that had confused me for months. 

[Yiyu Liu]

5 hours ago, transfatfree said:

Starting early is a great step! I agree with what almondicecream said and have heard similar things. I'd just like to add certain things you may want to pay attention to as an international student. 

1. While people may say that some supervisors will consider your non-native background and cut you some slack when it comes to GRE verbal and AW, I believe you can still do better than that. Getting great TOEFL scores can somehow make up to that, but you should check the university websites carefully as many universities now have specific requirements for international students who want to be considered for teaching assistantship. It has something to do with the lack of oral English skills in some international students in the past. I have seen requirements ranging from 25 to 28 for your TOEFL speaking score. Just something to bear in mind. Also, as a developmental graduate student, you may need to collect data from children and interact with parents. It's thus also possible for them to require better English communication skills.

2. You can submit presentation proposals to international conferences. Just make sure you pay attention to their deadlines, requirements, and target audiences. I'm sure there are also some national conferences in China. 

3. Some universities publish statistics. For example, http://psychology.berkeley.edu/students/graduate-program/faq-general-admissions. You can say it's competitive as most candidates are well-qualified. You can see there were applicants from Peking University who got in. I'm sure you can ask around and seek advice from professors from your department about who they are and what they did. But in general, Chinese students tend to do cognitive psychology and neuroscience, which require more technical knowledge.

4. I would say if you want to stand out, you should try to publish. If you work for a good research lab, recruitment is more of the professor's concern than yours. You may help with recruitment, but usually they will tell you how.

5. As I said above, you need to convince your supervisor that they should choose you over local applicants. Besides English communication skills, cultural differences can also be an issue. They need to be assured that you'll be able to adapt to life in a different country while staying productive as a researcher.

Another thing you may need to is the budget cut that has hit public universities hard. Some public universities are concerned about funding international students who are not eligible for in-state tuition. Private universities usually have more resources. However, the safest bet is to find a supervisor who is doing research that aligns with your interest and is externally funded. Some grants include funding a PhD student in their budget so the department does not have to pay for that student and the supervisor has more autonomy in who they want.

I was once taught by a developmental psychologist who did her undergrad at Peking University and her PhD in the US. So it's also possible for you. Good luck!

Thank you for all your help! Your advice is really to the point! I did hear someone say that the Admission Committee would consider my non-native background. But since I still have time, I should still strive for 85% percent. As for TOEFL, I took it one and a half years ago and only got 23 for speaking, so I will also retake it this fall. 

It is true that most of Chinese students come to US for cognitive/neuroscience degrees and I know cognitive programs are easier to get in. But as I prefer developmental psychology, I will still try apply to developmental programs. 

BTW I really love Berkeley. Last summer I went to Berkeley for the summer session. I took the developmental psychology there and it was just since then that I decided to choose development

[siitrasn]

I'm not a PhD in psychology but I did my undergraduate in psychology and spent a year volunteering at a developmental psychology lab. I thought I might be able to contribute a bit to the conversation by focusing on one part of what you said that I think will make your profile stronger for applying to developmental psych programs.

19 hours ago, Yiyu Liu said:

 This summer I will go to Indiana University to be an RA in an developmental lab. Also, I'm considering starting my own research this semester.    

I think you have a really great opportunity during this time to engage in research at this lab and try to get a conference paper, talk, or publication done during this time. As others have said, being deeply involved with the research and having your name on some sort of proof that you were a significant contributor to the project can help improve your chances of getting into graduate school. Even more importantly, I think you can use this opportunity to get a strong letter of recommendation from your lab advisor for a recommendation to a PhD in the U.S.

FYI, at my lab when I was an undergraduate, we had lab coordinators every year who had graduated from bachelors/masters programs that would be in charge of running and operating the professor's experiments, recruiting subjects, and working out administrative issues (e.g. lab supplies). A lot of our lab coordinators were also major contributors to the research at the lab, and went on to enter some great PhD programs.

19 hours ago, Yiyu Liu said:

   3  Is the developmental program hard to get in?

   5 What should I do to make myself a more promising applicant?    

Since the PhD is a lot more about your interest and fit with the department, you also want to think about which area of developmental psychology you are interested in. There are so many different intersections and overlaps with areas in cognitive and social psychology as well. For example, my undergraduate psychology department had researchers working on cognition, language acquisition, and infant vision among other fields, so figuring out the labs that you are particularly interested in will give you a better idea of what other competitive applicants look like. Topics like social cognition and language development also have a lot of potential research projects that your Chinese background can be helpful with since there may be cross-cultural applications as well.