Sociology Placement/Market

[ambiguous]

I'm a discipline changer that is moving from Poli Sci to Sociology. Through multiple poli sci sites and articles I have found a lot of information on the discipline's job market and placement. I've had trouble finding the same information on Sociology. A number of potentially useful links on the ASA site do not work and most school's do not give comprehensive data on placement attrition etc.

Anyone able to comment on this or point me in the right direction?

[jacib]

I'm a discipline changer that is moving from Poli Sci to Sociology. Through multiple poli sci sites and articles I have found a lot of information on the discipline's job market and placement. I've had trouble finding the same information on Sociology. A number of potentially useful links on the ASA site do not work and most school's do not give comprehensive data on placement attrition etc.

Anyone able to comment on this or point me in the right direction?

After you're accepted, ask the schools. If they don't have this kind of data for you, that's a warning sign allegedly. Often it changes adviser to adviser, so ask people in your subfield. At the one place I was accepted, the department head gave me a run down of approximate attrition rates off the top of his head, including reasons. At this program, he estimated one person in every three to four cohorts leaves or is asked to leave because they cannot do the work/sociology isn't right for them. One out of every four or five cohorts, someone leaves for medical reasons. He could recall no one leaving for lack of funding. The school put me in touch with current grad students and I am asking them the same questions to check. I talked to my POI and asked her about where her previous students had been placed. She doesn't take that many students, and because of her interests, many of the students she does take end up being international students and finding work in their own countries. The other students (though it was a small sample size) generally ended up at well respected liberal arts colleges. Again, I'm asking the current students about anyone who's had problems with job placements.

Obviously, this was all after I was accepted, I don't know if there is a possible way to check this before acceptance. I wish it were... I want to compare the program I have been accepted to with programs I might be accepted to later! For good questions to ask after you've been admitted, see http://members.terracom.net/~dorothea/gradsch/success.html Scroll down to "But what do I ask". Some of the links don't work, but that's only because they say www.terracom.net; simply change all the "www.terracom"s to "members.terracom" and every link works.

[Roll Right]

I haven't posted in a while (been super busy), so I'll throw my two cents in. I think you're asking about job prospects after leaving the field...I've had several conversations with other professors in the past about this, so I'll relay what I've internalized.

A). If you're getting a masters, you can be a lecturer/social research for institutions such as Research Triangle Institute or other social research institutions. You'll be doing data analysis with SPSS or SAS mostly. Also, you're well suited for jobs in the human services or public administration fields, as you have intimate knowledge of the structure of social organizations. Here we're talking about jobs like human resource manager...or what not...or DHS (department of human services) type stuff. Or you can work in management for a corporation. Basically you're marketable...but not in an extremely specific field. Go on for a PhD.

. So you decided to get a PhD! Good! Otherwise, sociology isn't worth the money for the degree...lol......I'm kidding, I love sociology. Anyway! No one does sociology for the money. Now that you have a PhD, you can be a professor for a University, work for government orgs (probably can do this as a MA but you won't command as much money or clout), work for research institutions....(once again like RTI)...work for groups like Pew Research Center (good luck with that)...or just...I dunno, pretty much do whatever you want within sociology.

In terms of how the school you attend affects your job prospects after...well. It does and it doesn't. Heres how schools hire professors:

The get 100+ job offers for one position. The choose the top ten, based on paper presentation of self. Your vita and your dissertation are what is important...and maybe your graduate institution...but really it depends on catering to the strengths of the program and putting out some well received research. Professors at my program are from a variety of places...Maryland, Duke...I don't think it matters. Although my undergraduate mentor said they won't even look at applicants from somewhere that isn't ranked favorable by US News....but I don't put a lot of stock in that now.

Out of this top ten, they whittle it down to a top 3. This top three is offered interviews on campus, and must teach a class, and also have to give a talk to the department faculty. Here it really matters if you get the influential faculty members to like you. You'll be in like Flynn. But I'm sure the name Harvard doesn't hurt. Does this help at all?

Edited February 17, 2010 by Roll Right

[captiv8ed]

Roll Right, why do you say this:

Pew Research Center (good luck with that)

??

What are they looking for?

[ambiguous]

How does the supply of PhD candidates compare to the demand? I know the numbers are bad, but is it more like the humanities, political science, or its own deal all together.

[jacib]

How does the supply of PhD candidates compare to the demand? I know the numbers are bad, but is it more like the humanities, political science, or its own deal all together.

Better than the humanities. I know the job prospects are better in Sociology than Anthropology. Perhaps similar to Political Science, but the thing is, students in Political Science may have more recourse to jobs "in the industry". I can't say exactly (I doubt anyone can). The number of sociology professorships is at least not shrinking (as I've heard history is) nor are sociology phds grossly, grossly overproduced (like English). I have a friend who graduated American Studies from Yale, I believe the best American Studies program in the country, but simply cannot find a job because there are no jobs there. She's looking abroad. I haven't seen things like that in sociology in the same way, definitely. At the schools I looked at (top 10 schools), most of the job placements seem to be at 4 year colleges (though they of course don't say it's tenure track or post-doc or what). My father works at a much lower ranked program (a small one, with only 2 or 3 students in each cohort) and he just got one of his students placed at University of Louisville. One has to be willing to travel and willing to live outside of a city, but it seems like there are jobs to be had in various parts of the country (it seems like the Americans people I talk to end up often at liberal arts colleges, but that could just be a small sample size.... the foreign students seem to have no problems finding jobs in their home countries). If you want to end up in a city, much less a specific city, or even just a specific state or region, you may have to teach community college, but that's how it is in every field. I get the sense that Sociology is relatively robust.

Someone correct me if I am wrong. With schools cutting their cohort sizes, I think in 5 to 7 years with a recovered economy the job market will be decent compared to other academic fields.

Edited February 17, 2010 by jacib

[sweet symphony]

Reading this article might be helpful. It is a bit outdated (done in 2006 I think) but I guess the situation has not change too drastically. As far as I remember the two findings from it are that:

1. the demand for Soc graduates is higher than the supply but 2. there is a mismatch between the areas of specialization needed by the Universities and the areas of interest and specialization of the new PhDs.

You can read the whole (quite short) article here: http://www.asanet.or...oManyTooFew.pdf

[captiv8ed]

I was talking to the DGS at Iowa the other day and she told me that 100% of their graduates get jobs in TT or research. 89% get TT positions. So that is promising. It isn't a super-high ranking school either. But they do teach how to teach as well as how to research. And placements don't tend to be in upper tier schools.

[pl0x]

I was talking to the DGS at Iowa the other day and she told me that 100% of their graduates get jobs in TT or research. 89% get TT positions. So that is promising. It isn't a super-high ranking school either. But they do teach how to teach as well as how to research. And placements don't tend to be in upper tier schools.

I don't mean to impugn her words, but 89%?!?! I had no idea Iowa was graduating so many students to the TT!

[captiv8ed]

That is what she said. And she said that she had just crunched these numbers recently for some type of review.

Here is what they have on their website:

http://www.uiowa.edu/~soc/graduate/placement.html

[jacib]

Reading this article might be helpful. It is a bit outdated (done in 2006 I think) but I guess the situation has not change too drastically. As far as I remember the two findings from it are that:

1. the demand for Soc graduates is higher than the supply but 2. there is a mismatch between the areas of specialization needed by the Universities and the areas of interest and specialization of the new PhDs.

You can read the whole (quite short) article here: http://www.asanet.or...oManyTooFew.pdf

Wow, only in the Sociology subsection will my idle speculations be answered with hard facts rather than rumor and innuendo. I read the above study, and there's an updated 2008 version http://www.asanet.org/research/ASAJobBankStudy09.pdf (I haven't read that one yet though, it's also a little longer). In fact, the ASA has a whole series of similar articles that might interest some of you http://www.asanet.org/employment/factsoncareers.cfm

[rogue]

You know what I always think when I see those lists of Ph.D. placements? How many others graduated from this program who aren't listed, and where are they? I'm not sure how to get that information, either. Most programs just point you to that page on their site when you ask about placement. I wish there was some big national database where you could see where everyone from everywhere ended up.

[captiv8ed]

I asked that specifically rogue and I was told that is everyone. It is a pretty small program with 35-40 total grad students and their rate for students not finishing is high, so that seems representative to me.

[ambiguous]

wow, thanks this is all really helpful information!

[Roll Right]

Pew is a world class research org. I know that the competition for Pew is steep. Also , I feel that not a lot of sociologists are hired by larger research organizations. It's probably mainly a poli sci/economics game. Why is this? Well I'm not completely sure...I'd like to hear what others know/think about this..its kind of just what I suspect. I'll be honest with you, I don't think sociology is highly regarded by american business and corporate research. Sociology usually invalidates and threatens the American cultural complex.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Roll Right