PhDs.org

[riseaslarks]

Hi all –

 

Has anyone heard of phds.org? It has stats for job placement and time to completion for numerous English PhD programs. However, I can’t find a clear articulation of how the site’s authors got their data or the methodology they used to interpret it. I am a little suspicious because there are some programs that I thought had decent reputations but, according to the site, have horrendous numbers. If the numbers on the site are accurate, phds.org may be one of the most useful tools I have stumbled across for evaluating a program. It certainly provides more helpful information than the US News rankings. Does anyone one know anything about this?

 

By the way, I am a complete newbie to the gradcafe, so if I missed a prior discussion about this in the literature and language forum, please just point me in the right direction.

[hadunc]

I've seen this site too and have wondered the same thing. I think they're data might be somewhat outdated, but I can't say for sure. If anyone knows how reliable this site is I'd love to know.

[Bardolater]

I would really like to know, too! Because, coincidentally, I've been accepted to CU-Boulder. So the "abysmal" numbers thing worries me, because CU was leading the pack of acceptances at the moment ... Now it's all up in the air again!

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

I've come across the site several times while searching for schools, but I have NO idea how they get their information. Would actually be good to know - once i get all the programs I'm interested in narrowed down (for next year, that is), it would be a great place to compare bare stats (% of students completing dissertation, placement, etc.) and weed out any programs that don't have good ones.

I'll repeat the question - anyone know where they get their info?? Because of course, University pages brag about their placement, so they just might not be utterly accurate/honest about that...

[strokeofmidnight]

http://graduate-school.phds.org/about/sources

I'm not sure of this, but I think much of the info is coming from the National Research Council numbers...from 1993. (New NRC results were due out in 2003...but has been incredibly delayed). NRC rankings are probably the most reputable--certainly far moreso than the US News and World Report.

I looked at a few schools where I have a sense of the current numbers. PhDs.org seems pretty far off...but again, I have no idea if what I looked at is a representative sample

Just a note of caution regarding the numbers, particularly things like time-to-completion. The numbers can be misleading if one isn't aware of the reasons behind one. One program with a particularly high time-to-completion rate has a policy of NOT cutting off their PhD students (many programs will force students out the door, with or without a job). Most PhD'ers beyond their 6th year at this program are actually done with their dissertation. They wait to file, and in the meantime, keep their TAship, insurance, and loan deferrals while hunting on the job market. While this atmosphere might not be attractive to everyone, I'd be willing to overlook a higher time-to-completion rate if this is indeed the main cause. All I'm saying is...see if you can get a sense of why the numbers are what they are, and take that into consideration when you made decisions.

Also, most programs will disclose things like time-to-completion rates, placement rates (and often, a complete chart of who was placed where for the last 5-10 years), etc...once you're accepted. Just ask. Or they might even slip it into your visitation folder without you having to ask for it.

Edited February 18, 2010 by strokeofmidnight

[strokeofmidnight]

I've come across the site several times while searching for schools, but I have NO idea how they get their information. Would actually be good to know - once i get all the programs I'm interested in narrowed down (for next year, that is), it would be a great place to compare bare stats (% of students completing dissertation, placement, etc.) and weed out any programs that don't have good ones.

I'll repeat the question - anyone know where they get their info?? Because of course, University pages brag about their placement, so they just might not be utterly accurate/honest about that...

This is a pretty big thing to lie about, especially since it's pretty easy to be caught in the lie. I don't think any program would actually do it. Then again, what's a "good placement" will depend on what sort of job/environment you're looking for

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

This is a pretty big thing to lie about, especially since it's pretty easy to be caught in the lie. I don't think any program would actually do it. Then again, what's a "good placement" will depend on what sort of job/environment you're looking for

I'm not saying that they'll outright lie or anything like that, obviously. But "we successfully place 80% of our graduates" is a very general thing to say, and can incorporate placements at community colleges, high schools, outside academia, and not necessarily tenure track. Some schools list a sampling of universities their graduates were placed in, and some actually give tables with exact data, but some don't. Although I'm not too terribly stressed about placement after the PhD - most of the schools i'm interested in do have decent placement overall, and I'm confident I'll be a successful job-seeker (since I have an expansive skill-set aside from English lit - I can teach other stuff, like tech writing etc.,) - I AM 38, and I don't want to wait around for too long after my dissertation without a job, especially with the current trend in Humanities hires.

[strokeofmidnight]

I'm not saying that they'll outright lie or anything like that, obviously. But "we successfully place 80% of our graduates" is a very general thing to say, and can incorporate placements at community colleges, high schools, outside academia, and not necessarily tenure track. Some schools list a sampling of universities their graduates were placed in, and some actually give tables with exact data, but some don't. Although I'm not too terribly stressed about placement after the PhD - most of the schools i'm interested in do have decent placement overall, and I'm confident I'll be a successful job-seeker (since I have an expansive skill-set aside from English lit - I can teach other stuff, like tech writing etc.,) - I AM 38, and I don't want to wait around for too long after my dissertation without a job, especially with the current trend in Humanities hires.

It's fantastic that you're flexible enough to have options outside of academia/the humanities.

All four of the programs that you're applying to this year place quite well. While the placement data might not be available online, as I noted above, you CAN ask for it once you're in. (I was admitted to one of your four programs. They handed me a full list of graduates/first job/current job as soon as I arrived for the visit. From what I gather, this is pretty common. Schools--outside the handful that places INSANELY well--might not list all the details, but you if admitted, you'll have access to it with plenty of time to make your decision. In short, I suppose, I'm suggesting that one wouldn't need to rely on the relatively dated, relatively unreliable data (without details or explanations) on phds.orgs, at least for the placement info. Granted, this info is generally not available before you're admitted...but personally (not sure if this works for everyone), I focused on research fit while trying to figure out where to apply, and filtered for info such as placement and time-to-completion only when I had offers.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

It's fantastic that you're flexible enough to have options outside of academia/the humanities.

All four of the programs that you're applying to this year place quite well. While the placement data might not be available online, as I noted above, you CAN ask for it once you're in. (I was admitted to one of your four programs. They handed me a full list of graduates/first job/current job as soon as I arrived for the visit. From what I gather, this is pretty common. Schools--outside the handful that places INSANELY well--might not list all the details, but you if admitted, you'll have access to it with plenty of time to make your decision. In short, I suppose, I'm suggesting that one wouldn't need to rely on the relatively dated, relatively unreliable data (without details or explanations) on phds.orgs, at least for the placement info. Granted, this info is generally not available before you're admitted...but personally (not sure if this works for everyone), I focused on research fit while trying to figure out where to apply, and filtered for info such as placement and time-to-completion only when I had offers.

I'm not that flexible . I don't want to be placed outside of academia!! I want tenure track!! *sob* *sniffle*

Most of the schools on my long list for next year have decent placement, as I've stated before, and I'm not too horribly worried about it. It would just be nice, as far as my "internal" ranking goes. Obviously the four I've applied to this year have excellent placement prospects, but then, I doubt I'll get in this year. Next year I'm broadening the net by quite a bit, so the placement issue will come into play somewhat. On the other hand, I'm fairly confident that the top-50 have fairly decent placement, and that I'll be a competitive job-seeker overall in academia (especially if I ever get my novel published ). I'm sure that experience teaching ESL, being a technical & marketing writer, and having a load of other skills helps. Especially today, the more you can teach, the better off you are, right?

[strokeofmidnight]

I'm not that flexible . I don't want to be placed outside of academia!! I want tenure track!! *sob* *sniffle*

Most of the schools on my long list for next year have decent placement, as I've stated before, and I'm not too horribly worried about it. It would just be nice, as far as my "internal" ranking goes. Obviously the four I've applied to this year have excellent placement prospects, but then, I doubt I'll get in this year. Next year I'm broadening the net by quite a bit, so the placement issue will come into play somewhat. On the other hand, I'm fairly confident that the top-50 have fairly decent placement, and that I'll be a competitive job-seeker overall in academia (especially if I ever get my novel published ). I'm sure that experience teaching ESL, being a technical & marketing writer, and having a load of other skills helps. Especially today, the more you can teach, the better off you are, right?

Oops. Didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

I've obviously never been on the job market, so I can't really say programs look for when they're hiring. I do suspect that it will vary depending on the job and the type of school (R1 versus liberal arts, for example). I was told that the only teaching experience that counts for the job market are strictly academic ones. (And in fact, unless one is applying for directly relevant field, tutoring, non-academic teaching, tech writing, "job" experience aren't very helpful even for grad apps). And it seems that publications, the dissertation (of course!), and an impressive interview/job talk tend to be weighed more strongly than teaching experience--though this definitely varies by the type of institution. In short, it's far more about what you publish (and generally, critical rather than creative work--though one of my old professors wrote novels on the side. He was also tenured well before I was born, so this might have been in the "good old days").

I'm not sure that the entire top 50 have fairly decent placement rates (and conversely, there are programs outside the top 50 that place quite well). In previous rounds when I remember being dismayed by some of the stats...though it's hard to say to what extend the program does or doesn't adequately prepare its graduate. Some PhD-holders do not find jobs because...well, it's not a priority for them, or they're dealing with strict geographic limitations.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

I was told that the only teaching experience that counts for the job market are strictly academic ones. (And in fact, unless one is applying for directly relevant field, tutoring, non-academic teaching, tech writing, "job" experience aren't very helpful even for grad apps). And it seems that publications, the dissertation (of course!), and an impressive interview/job talk tend to be weighed more strongly than teaching experience--though this definitely varies by the type of institution. In short, it's far more about what you publish (and generally, critical rather than creative work--though one of my old professors wrote novels on the side. He was also tenured well before I was born, so this might have been in the "good old days").

I'm obviously taking the kick-ass dissertation and huge volume of academic publications that I'll have to write during my studies as a given (and SO looking forward to writing them...). It's just that I've heard that if you can teach at two departments, or in various subfields (i.e. teach creative writing AS WELL as literature), you're a more "attractive" candidate. I suppose it depends on the school. And academic teaching experience - well, i'm hoping to have a plethora of that during grad school. I'm aiming for programs that don't just shove you in the comp teaching sections, but actually allow you to develop and teach courses in your own field. I'd LOVE to teach a popular fantasy class, or track the Arthurian legend from the middle ages to now (including spoofs such as The Holy Grail) - examining the fantasy elements in this particular story that keep catching our fancy generation after generation (think Prince Valiant comics, not just Mallory) (oh god I'm such a nerd). But then, I'd probably enjoy teaching a regular intro to English lit section, as well. Get them while they're young and impressionable!!