PhD chances for an international student

[T. Wong]

I am an undergraduate from China majored in archaeology, my department is ranked #2 in all Chinese Archaeology departments. I am now applying PhD for several universities, and I wanna know my chance.

My GPA is 3.7/4.0, and I have a TOEFL score of 108 (R29, L30, S23, W26). 

My GRE situation is a little weird: I took it twive. One is V 164(94th percentile)+Q 159, the other is V 157+Q 166(91st percentile).

I am now applying: Columbia (PhD), Berkeley(PhD), UPenn(PhD), UCLA(MA), Michigan Ann Arbor(PhD). Most of them I applied for Prehistory.

Here are my 3 questions:

1. Will my 94th percentile GRE Verbal be an advantage?

Especiall for Berkeley. It states that they do not need GRE score for international students, but still I handed in mine. So, will my 94th percentile Verbal be an advantage?

Also, as for Berkeley, I applied for Classical Archaeology, is it harder to be accepted than other anthropological programs?

2. Will they take my two GRE tests both into consideration?

3. What is the chance for me to be accpeted by the above mentioned universities?

[phyanth]

I think that anth programs are more interested in the total package more than just scores and grades. They want to see what sort of relevant experience you have, research you may have done, fit between what you want to study and what the dept has to offer, and most importantly, your statement of purpose. But as for your questions:

1. It definitely won't hurt you! It might be helpful if they are deciding between you and another applicant, or who to give funding to. Not sure about Berkeley. I think it's very difficult regardless of sub discipline.

2. No. I would send the score with the higher verbal, anthropology programs seem to care more about that than quant, unless your proposed project is quant heavy. 

3. I can't tell you that. I don't know everything you have to offer as an applicant, and none of us are on committees that decide admissions. What I do know is that the more competitive schools tend to receive hundreds of applications for MAYBE 2-4 spots in your sub discipline. Less competitive schools might receive around 100 applications, but they usually don't have as much funding, and therefore do admit even less people. So it's extremely competitive across the schools. There are many instances where applicants do not get into any schools.

The best thing you can do is try to distract yourself while schools are deciding. Good luck!

[T. Wong]

10 hours ago, phyanth said:

I think that anth programs are more interested in the total package more than just scores and grades. They want to see what sort of relevant experience you have, research you may have done, fit between what you want to study and what the dept has to offer, and most importantly, your statement of purpose. But as for your questions:

1. It definitely won't hurt you! It might be helpful if they are deciding between you and another applicant, or who to give funding to. Not sure about Berkeley. I think it's very difficult regardless of sub discipline.

2. No. I would send the score with the higher verbal, anthropology programs seem to care more about that than quant, unless your proposed project is quant heavy. 

3. I can't tell you that. I don't know everything you have to offer as an applicant, and none of us are on committees that decide admissions. What I do know is that the more competitive schools tend to receive hundreds of applications for MAYBE 2-4 spots in your sub discipline. Less competitive schools might receive around 100 applications, but they usually don't have as much funding, and therefore do admit even less people. So it's extremely competitive across the schools. There are many instances where applicants do not get into any schools.

The best thing you can do is try to distract yourself while schools are deciding. Good luck!

Thanks a lot.

As for the experience and research part, I had a four-month internship of archaeological excavation, and I conducted a 3-day field investigation. These are all sites of prehistory, so these experiences are relevant, aren' they?

As for the GRE part, I sent both of my scores, so will it be helpful?

I read some of these schools' FAQs, Berkeley Classical Archaeology received 80-90 applications, and they admitted 12 of them; Michigan anthropology received over 200, and admitted 26.

All these schools, I met their TOEFL requirements (and way higher than the minimal, they are either 90 or 100).

Therefore, the question is:

Just for the scores (as I don't know other aspects, like whether my experiences are relevant, or whether my SOP is clear enough), am I competitive?

By scores I mean my GPA, TOEFL, and two GRE scores.

[bioarch_fan]

On 12/18/2017 at 4:55 AM, KbWong said:

I am an undergraduate from China majored in archaeology, my department is ranked #2 in all Chinese Archaeology departments. I am now applying PhD for several universities, and I wanna know my chance.

My GPA is 3.7/4.0, and I have a TOEFL score of 108 (R29, L30, S23, W26). 

My GRE situation is a little weird: I took it twive. One is V 164(94th percentile)+Q 159, the other is V 157+Q 166(91st percentile).

I am now applying: Columbia (PhD), Berkeley(PhD), UPenn(PhD), UCLA(MA), Michigan Ann Arbor(PhD). Most of them I applied for Prehistory.

Here are my 3 questions:

1. Will my 94th percentile GRE Verbal be an advantage?

Especiall for Berkeley. It states that they do not need GRE score for international students, but still I handed in mine. So, will my 94th percentile Verbal be an advantage?

Also, as for Berkeley, I applied for Classical Archaeology, is it harder to be accepted than other anthropological programs?

2. Will they take my two GRE tests both into consideration?

3. What is the chance for me to be accpeted by the above mentioned universities?

1. 94th percentile is actually really really good. That's better than what I got on the GRE Verbal and I'm a native English speaker. So you should be fine with that. And most anthropology departments don't take too much credence in the GRE because they understand it's a horrible way to determine the success of an individual in the department.

2. It really depends on the department in question. Some take the highest score from each section. Some look at all scores and look at increases. So that should be a question for the department in question. However, like I stated in the 1st answer, many departments don't use the GRE that much in their acceptance of students.

3. No one can say for certain your chances because no one knows how the other applicants are. You are applying to extremely competitive schools though. I would suggest looking at some safety schools because while it would be great to get into a competitive school, there are probably just as many other good applicants applying there too. 

Finally, I was a classical archaeology minor in my undergrad, so I might be able to shed a bit of light on classics. They are EXTREMELY different than anthropological archaeology. The methods are somewhat similar, but the theories behind them are very different. Also, most classic archaeology graduate programs require latin or greek or both, Berkeley is one of those programs that requires both latin and greek to even be admitted into the program. So if you don't have either of those languages, then I would suggest not applying to a classical archaeology program.

[T. Wong]

21 hours ago, bioarch_fan said:

1. 94th percentile is actually really really good. That's better than what I got on the GRE Verbal and I'm a native English speaker. So you should be fine with that. And most anthropology departments don't take too much credence in the GRE because they understand it's a horrible way to determine the success of an individual in the department.

2. It really depends on the department in question. Some take the highest score from each section. Some look at all scores and look at increases. So that should be a question for the department in question. However, like I stated in the 1st answer, many departments don't use the GRE that much in their acceptance of students.

3. No one can say for certain your chances because no one knows how the other applicants are. You are applying to extremely competitive schools though. I would suggest looking at some safety schools because while it would be great to get into a competitive school, there are probably just as many other good applicants applying there too. 

Finally, I was a classical archaeology minor in my undergrad, so I might be able to shed a bit of light on classics. They are EXTREMELY different than anthropological archaeology. The methods are somewhat similar, but the theories behind them are very different. Also, most classic archaeology graduate programs require latin or greek or both, Berkeley is one of those programs that requires both latin and greek to even be admitted into the program. So if you don't have either of those languages, then I would suggest not applying to a classical archaeology program.

Thanks for the info!

Actually I have been extremely nervous these days. Never expected that, as I used to be confident with myself.

Here is another question, of which all kinds of answers I would appreciate:

Will universities treat international and domestic applicants differently?

A friend of mine is applying, too. And though his scores are not as high as mine (lol), he is pretty confident right now, as he trusts that universities would treat him as an international student, i.e. differently, like they would not be that restrictive to GRE scores.

He made his conclusion from several positive reactions of the universities he applied:

1) He told the university that his GRE score was not high (about 315-320, I guess), but the university told him they would take him as an international applicant.

So what is the meaning of "take him as an international applicant"?

2) He said that a guy with 300 GRE is now a top applicant of University of Notre Dame, and he has been receiving E-mails from this university ever since he finished his last test.

3) He had a Skype interview with UCSB even before the deadline, 1st Dec.

4) He said he had a chance to get offer from The University of Arizona, of which GRE Verbal requirement is 90th percentile. I know that Verbal 162 is the 90th percentile, which is a score definitely higher than his.

So, is that true? Will international applicants be treated differently, by a lower standard? Or is it just the fact that GRE matters nothing, just as you said?

Edited December 20, 2017 by KbWong

[sideeye_emoji]

Sorry you're feeling nervous! Believe me, you're not alone...   As @bioarch_fan said above, your scores are awesome, but no one can say what your chances are for sure. That's not only because we don't know who the other applicants are for your schools, but also because having a compelling SOP and a POI who works in your area of interest and is willing to sponsor your research is super important too!

That being said, I have no idea how committees look differently upon international applications (if they do at all). I'm sure committees keep it in mind if an applicant is ESL and does not work in English-speaking institutions. But honestly, beyond that, I wouldn't assume international applicants are treated differently.

Is your friend also applying in archaeology too? Maybe he got an early interview because he had already developed a relationship with a POI? That happens sometimes. And what does "a chance to get an offer" to UA mean? It sounds like he's super confident and experiencing some successes already, but don't write yourself off just yet!

[Paleo]

I guess your GPA and standard test results are good enough to pass the preliminary review of graduate school. However, the department admission committee, especially for anthropology, value the statement of purpose, writing sample, recommendation letters, field/research experiences, publication record and etc. If your target POIs are archaeologists actively involved in Chinese Archaeology such as Li Feng, Lothar Von Falkenhausen, Li Min or Henry Wright, maybe things will be a little bit different. As for the classical archaeology program, I really think you are just donating your application fee to Berkeley.... By the way, the University of Arizona does treat your friend differently because they don't require GRE score from international students like Berkeley. 90th percentile is a recommended score for domestic students.

[T. Wong]

5 hours ago, sideeye_emoji said:

Sorry you're feeling nervous! Believe me, you're not alone...   As @bioarch_fan said above, your scores are awesome, but no one can say what your chances are for sure. That's not only because we don't know who the other applicants are for your schools, but also because having a compelling SOP and a POI who works in your area of interest and is willing to sponsor your research is super important too!

That being said, I have no idea how committees look differently upon international applications (if they do at all). I'm sure committees keep it in mind if an applicant is ESL and does not work in English-speaking institutions. But honestly, beyond that, I wouldn't assume international applicants are treated differently.

Is your friend also applying in archaeology too? Maybe he got an early interview because he had already developed a relationship with a POI? That happens sometimes. And what does "a chance to get an offer" to UA mean? It sounds like he's super confident and experiencing some successes already, but don't write yourself off just yet!

Yep he applied archaeology, same as me.

He said that he had a face-to-face communication with an UA professor during his field work, and he said that worked.

?

[T. Wong]

2 hours ago, Paleo said:

I guess your GPA and standard test results are good enough to pass the preliminary review of graduate school. However, the department admission committee, especially for anthropology, value the statement of purpose, writing sample, recommendation letters, field/research experiences, publication record and etc. If your target POIs are archaeologists actively involved in Chinese Archaeology such as Li Feng, Lothar Von Falkenhausen, Li Min or Henry Wright, maybe things will be a little bit different. As for the classical archaeology program, I really think you are just donating your application fee to Berkeley.... By the way, the University of Arizona does treat your friend differently because they don't require GRE score from international students like Berkeley. 90th percentile is a recommended score for domestic students.

Why is the donating application fee? ?

Because it is not related to China? Err...personally, I am not very interested in Chinese Archaeology. Though professors like Li feng and Li Min are indeed my target POIs, they are only a part of.

BTW, Berkeley doesn't require GRE from international applicants, as stated below.

That is what I use to soothe myself as my GRE Verbal and Quan, though separately, are all higher than 90th percentile...

(ಥ﹏ಥ) Still nervous ahh.

[bioarch_fan]

17 hours ago, KbWong said:

Why is the donating application fee? ?

Because it is not related to China? Err...personally, I am not very interested in Chinese Archaeology. Though professors like Li feng and Li Min are indeed my target POIs, they are only a part of.

BTW, Berkeley doesn't require GRE from international applicants, as stated below.

That is what I use to soothe myself as my GRE Verbal and Quan, though separately, are all higher than 90th percentile...

(ಥ﹏ಥ) Still nervous ahh.

So I'm going to answer your first question in the response you had for me first. I would say that they usually don't treat international and domestic students differently. Everyone is treated equally to begin with and then once they review your applications is where things start going good and bad for specific people. He might have connections at these universities, which could be why he has had interviews with these departments. I wouldn't take that as a sure thing that he'll be accepted because the admissions committee makes the final determination based on the applications received, funding available, availability of POIs, and professors who will take them. There's a lot of factors that will need to be taken into consideration before they can say that they got in somewhere already.

I think they're saying that you're donating your application fee because you don't meet the general requirements to be admitted into the program, for example Latin and Greek (unless you took both of those in undergrad). But those are two of the main requirements for the department because classicists are required to know these languages in normal circumstances. Plus Berkeley's program is one of the top in the nation with regards to classics. If you have not been in contact with the POI in this department or the graduate coordinator in the department of classics, then I would suggest doing that before submitting your application. They will likely say the same thing that I am that without those language requirements it'll be impossible for you to be admitted or it will be extremely hard for you to complete the program. Take this from a classicist who doesn't speak either language, which is why I'm not doing a classical archaeology grad program.