Concerned about my chances, Neuroscience PhD

[adran6]

My major concerns (there are a lot) are my GRE, the fact that I am a psychology major applying to Neuroscience programs embedded in biology departments, I come from a lower ranked liberal arts college and I had a rocky start to college (3 schools, 2 different majors), the fact that my research experience is so varied and not necessarily what I want to do in graduate school, and I have not taken upper division science courses.

 

I'm pretty unsure of where I stand as an applicant so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

I am interested in a few areas but they all revolve around neuroimaging. I am interested in studying language processes, especially language switching in bilinguals, and memory processes. I also am very interested in conducting neuroimaging research on clinical populations suffereing from alzheimers, parkinson, huntingtons, etc. The reason I am choosing programs that are in biology departments is that the neuroscience programs in the psych departments are too shallow and are not as concerned with the neural and molecular underpinnings of cognition and behavior. Although I do not have much biology coursework, I still want my work to be open to molecular and cellular aspects of cognitive neuroscience.

 

Undergrad Institution: lower ranked private liberal arts college
Major(s): Psychology
Minor(s): 
GPA in Major: 4.0
Overall GPA: 3.42  (rocky start in other school. GPA at current school for past 2.5 years is 3.88)
Position in Class: top 10%
Type of Student: Domestic male

GRE Scores (revised/old version): 
Q: 156 (64%)    
V: 157 (74%)
W: 5.0 (93%)
B: not taking any subject test


Research Experience: 2.5 years as sole research assistant in a cognitive neuroscience lab studying language processing, language switching in bilingualism, number processing (manuscript in progress), list searching techniques, historical accounts of word and number usage through time. I pretty much did everything from programming all of the experiments to running the participants to analyzing the data. 

 

2 years in a clinical/social psychology lab (only undergraduate) studying ego resilience and cumulative life adversity's affect on negative and positive information processing as well as perceived social support in traumatic incidences. I programmed several protocols and analyzed data. I was even asked to be the lab coordinator but I had to decline due to time restraints.

 

1 summer in an animal behavior lab studying vocalization patterns, behaviors, and mate selection in mating gray tree frogs. I had the abysmal job of treading through a pond every night collecting frogs and testing them in a sound chamber the next morning.

 

2 semesters of Experimental Psychology where I carried out my own research project examining the relationship between preferred music and cognitive performance as well as mood.

 

Awards/Honors/Recognitions: Psi Chi member. Alpha Chi member and Secretary for my schools chapter. Dean's List every semester. Going to graduate summa cum laude. Member of my schools research society, The Society of Fellows.

 

1 paper in review, 2nd author.

2 papers currently being written, 2nd author on both.

Oral presentation at colleges research society annual meeting

Poster accepted to present at the International Convention of Psychological Sciences in Amsterdam in March 2015.

Pertinent Activities or Jobs: Research assistant in 2 different psychology labs simultaneously. Research assistant in animal behavior lab. TA for statistics and tutor for mostly all cognitive and biological psychology classes.

Any Miscellaneous Accomplishments that Might Help: These aren't necessarily accomplishments but the only relevant courses I have taken outside of psychology courses are Bio 1 and 2, Chem 1 and 2, Calc 1 and 2, and Statistics. I have taken a cognitive psychology course as well as a biological psychology course. As you can see, I have no upper division science courses. Will this be a problem?

Special Bonus Points: My letters of recommendation will be amazingly good as I have cultivated very close and personal relationships with the faculty in the psychology department. I can also program in python and C++ and I am proficient with SPSS.

Any Other Info That Shows Up On Your App and Might Matter: I have been to three different colleges studying 5 different things and my first two years at the first two colleges (1 being a community college) were not so hot. I got a 3.27 studying computer science at the community college and a 2.7 studying computer science at a big state school. I have a 3.9 GPA at my current school studying Psychology for the past 2.5 years.

 

I know there is some stuff that I did not include here but I am in the lab and my cravings to post on here have finally gotten the best of me.

 

Applying to Where:  I am unsure if too many of these schools are reaches. Any feedback on this list would be much appreciated.

 

UC Davis Neuroscience PhD

UC Berkeley Neuroscience PhD

UCLA Neuroscience PhD

USC Neuroscience PhD

UC San Diego Neuroscience PhD

UC Irvine Neurobiology and Behavior PhD

University of Colorado at Boulder Cognitive Neuroscience PhD

University of Iowa Neuroscience PhD

University of Illinois Neuroscience PhD

Penn State University Neuroscience PhD

Columbia University Neurobiology and Behavior PhD      (needs to stay on list due to SO pending job offer in NYC)

NYU Neural Science PhD                                                 (needs to stay on list due to SO pending job offer in NYC)

UNC Chapel Hill Neuroscience PhD

Duke Neurobiology PhD

 

I know that I am freaking out and I may stand a better chance than I give myself credit for but I am very unaware of the competition for these programs. Again, any and all feedback is appreciated. Thank you for reading the long post.

[GeoDUDE!]

I've seen you've posted this a bunch of times. Are you sure you are going to get helpful answers after 3 times? Perhaps grad cafe does not have what you are looking for, or perhaps, you need to talk through this with someone in real life.

[adran6]

I've seen you've posted this a bunch of times. Are you sure you are going to get helpful answers after 3 times? Perhaps grad cafe does not have what you are looking for, or perhaps, you need to talk through this with someone in real life.

 

I have posted this three times because I have yet to receive any feedback. I guess I may not get any. I just assumed that in a community of people who are going through the same process that I am, I would get something more than 'ask someone else.' I have spoken to many people about my profile and I have gotten some sage advice but I wanted to talk to peers and those who have recently been through this process. I am going to keep my hopes up and believe that there is someone out there who could at least give me some feedback, as you have not. Keep in mind that there are people on this site who have concerns and worries and would like to receive support, not criticism for looking for it.

[GeoDUDE!]

 

I have posted this three times because I have yet to receive any feedback. I guess I may not get any. I just assumed that in a community of people who are going through the same process that I am, I would get something more than 'ask someone else.' I have spoken to many people about my profile and I have gotten some sage advice but I wanted to talk to peers and those who have recently been through this process. I am going to keep my hopes up and believe that there is someone out there who could at least give me some feedback, as you have not. Keep in mind that there are people on this site who have concerns and worries and would like to receive support, not criticism for looking for it.

 

I disagree that I haven't given you feedback. I hope you find what you are looking for, I'm sure the way you post will be productive in that regard.

 

Cheers.

Edited October 29, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[Applemiu]

Dear OP, I think you need to take it easy a little bit more. You have a lot of good experience, but your stats seem on the low side. Try to retake the GRE if you can; the quant result is important for neuroscience. There is no way around that. This comes from the Columbia website: "Most graduate programs in Neuroscience require one year of calculus, one year of physics, and chemistry through organic."

If you can't retake the GRE, you can still try, and you might get in, but the higher ranked program are a bit of a stretch.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Applemiu

[louisemcbane]

Looks like you have not included any Ivy League schools.  You should but a couple on your list.  Brown maybe?

[Vene]

Looks like you have not included any Ivy League schools.  You should but a couple on your list.  Brown maybe?

Columbia is an Ivy. I also think an Ivy is a stretch considering the lack of advanced coursework in biology and lackluster GRE.

 

I honestly think that this is a case where taking a subject GRE can be a good idea as the minimal background you have in biology is worrying. Neuroscientists work with cells, DNA, and proteins; the biology is vital

[gliaful]

I think your psychology background is fine for some schools. I'm not familiar with the programs you listed, but in looking at a lot of Neuro programs I've come to realize some programs are staffed with many faculty who have PhD's in Psych. You could potentially retake the GRE, but I think that your vast experiences and GPA make up for it (and then some).

[blinchik]

One of my faculty mentors is a neuroscientist and I've talked to her about her background (briefly, I must add). She said that it is very important to have a heavy-science based background, ideally while having taken an Intro to Neuroscience course or even an upper-level Neuroscience course, in addition to having relevant research experience. I'm no expert, obviously, but if I were in your position, I would contact every program and see how they would view you based on your preparation.

 

Furthermore, the general consensus is that for whatever reason, neuroscience applicants and therefore programs tend to be more competitive than general/umbrella biology programs - I'm not sure if the pool is self-selecting or what, but that is something she seconded and something to consider. The statistics I've seen from Duke University and other places seem to back up this assertion.

 

Question: When you say you do not have the strongest background in science, do you mean that you have never taken cell and molecular biology, physics, anatomy and physiology, organic and biochemistry, etc.? I could see that being an issue based on what we had discussed.

Edited October 30, 2014 by blinchik

[Vene]

One of my faculty mentors is a neuroscientist and I've talked to her about her background (briefly, I must add). She said that it is very important to have a heavy-science based background, ideally while having taken an Intro to Neuroscience course or even an upper-level Neuroscience course, in addition to having relevant research experience. I'm no expert, obviously, but if I were in your position, I would contact every program and see how they would view you based on your preparation.

 

Furthermore, the general consensus is that for whatever reason, neuroscience applicants and therefore programs tend to be more competitive than general/umbrella biology programs - I'm not sure if the pool is self-selecting or what, but that is something she seconded and something to consider. The statistics I've seen from Duke University and other places seem to back up this assertion.

 

Question: When you say you do not have the strongest background in science, do you mean that you have never taken cell and molecular biology, physics, anatomy and physiology, organic and biochemistry, etc.? I could see that being an issue based on what we had discussed.

The lab I'm currently rotating in has a couple of neuroscience students and my interactions when them matches what you're describing here. The neuro students even take some of their classes with the MD students. The work we do is also very cell biology and biochemistry heavy.

[blinchik]

Also, given that neuroscience programs are more competitive, I would be concerned about having too many "reach" schools on that list, given your GPA and GRE scores. It may be prudent to consider removing some of the more competitive ones such as Berkeley and UCLA and replacing them with more middle-tier schools. For instance, Duke's stats show an average GPA of 3.8 and GRE scores of 160 V and 163 Q for the Neurobiology program . I'm not trying to undermine your dream schools or be discouraging here, but I think it's better to err on the side of caution with regard to neuroscience programs, especially considering your self-professed lack of upper-level science background 

[bsharpe269]

Your quant score may be an issue. Since you dont have many science classes, a really high quant score (>165) might be able to reassure the department that you have the potential for quantitative work.

 

I know you want more feedback but I think the best we can all say is to give it a shot... some departments may not consider you due to the lack of science work and others may not be bothered by it at all. If you don't get in then increasing your GRE quant score and taking the bio subject test might be two easy things to do that could increase your chances a lot. If you really want to get in this cycle then I agree that mixing your school list a bit more might be a good idea since most of your schools are very highly ranked. If you would rather apply again next year (if need be) than rearrange your list then that is completely understandable too.

 

I think you have a shot.. I dont think you will get rejections across the board due to the lack of science work. Good luck!

[adran6]

Thank you for all of your candid responses and valuable information. I know that my application certainly has areas that may raise questions to neuroscience programs but I am hoping that my strengths will outshine my weaknesses. The general consensus seems to be that I should be worried most about my lack of upper level science courses and I will make sure to contact these programs and ask how they feel about students applying with a deficit in this area. I appreciate the feedback and the support. After some consideration, I am planning to continue with my applications to the programs listed above and see what happens. I can always apply next year if it does not work out. Thank you again and I wish the best of luck to you all in your endeavors.

[poweredbycoldfusion]

Furthermore, the general consensus is that for whatever reason, neuroscience applicants and therefore programs tend to be more competitive than general/umbrella biology programs - I'm not sure if the pool is self-selecting or what, but that is something she seconded and something to consider. The statistics I've seen from Duke University and other places seem to back up this assertion.

 

Yes, this is true. The stats online confirm this, and my own advisor did as well. I have no idea why this is, but it's a thing right now. I'd retake the GRE and get both sections above 75%. It also sounds like you need to talk to a mentor(s) in real life about your concerns. The people who are writing your letters can help you with your SOP and make your application into a coherant story of you as a scientist.

[lab ratta-tat-tat]

I actually think your GRE scores are fine.

My boss sits on a neuroscience admission committee and informed me anything over 150 in each category is automatically looked at. Anything above 155 and they go in the potential interview pile, then they dissect the SOP and application from there, looking at research experience.

 

I had 3 publications in top journals and over 5 years research experience in molecular biology labs managing my own project, but I didn't meet the GRE score and was not even looked at by top universities. They informed me "my application hadn't even been considered" Ouch.

 

Even though they say its about the research, it is not exactly- not to large schools who have to meet ranking standards.

 

 

Also your research experience and interests are all over the place (not that it is a bad thing, just stating the obvious). Mention how your past experiences shaped your current interests ______ e.g. Cognition, Neurodegeneration, etc. The programs are investing thousands of dollars in interviews and potentially thousands if you are admitted. They want to know their investment has some sort of direction. It's irritating when a student comes in who is interested in everything! It makes the mentor roll their eyes as well as everyone in the lab that student is rotating in.

 

Good luck and keep us updated where you end up applying and end up getting in.