rhodeislander

That actually answers my questions pretty well, thank you! I figure as long as my previous experience doesn't keep my from being accepted into programs, I'm happy. I'm actually considering doing a quickie master's in Europe before applying to a PhD - it would be relatively affordable, and would give me a better writing sample, fresh recs, and some improved language and research skills.

Hey all, I'm seriously considering doing a PhD in medieval European history at some point in the next couple years, and looking for a bit of advice. First off: languages. I understand I'll need a decent amount of French, German, and Latin. I expect I'll have at least two, and possibly three, years of Latin under my belt by the time I enroll. Is this considered sufficient? What do most programs generally consider the minimum for Latin training? Also, my experience is in classical Latin, do they prefer training in Medieval Latin? Next, French and German. I currently only have minimal training in French, and none in German. How much of each language do they generally like you to have? I've got a couple years before my (still hypothetical) PhD begins, so how should I divide my time? One year of each? Two years of one, and hopefully at least start on the other? Of the two, which is generally considered the more important for Medieval academic research? Or does it vary, depending on your specific research topic? Finally, on a totally different note, I've been out of undergrad for several years. In this time, I got a (mostly) unrelated master's, and spent several years in the work world. Would this honestly be held against me? I would figure they would like someone who has been out there in the real world, tried a few things, and decided this is what they really wanted to do, versus someone coming straight out of undergrad, but I know how finicky some academics can be about these things. I majored in European history as an undergrad, and am now looking to return to graduate school after working for a few years, but I'm worried they won't be crazy about someone who left the warm confines of the ivory tower for a few years. Is there anything to this? Would it help if I did a master's program first to get back in the swing of things? Anyway, I know I fired off a lot of questions, but thanks for any help you may be able to give!

Awesome, glad to have you on board. I will see you next year!

Hey Katrun, sorry I'm only getting back to you now (so busy these days with midterms and the internship hunt and whatnot), but basically, on top of all your other committments language study is just very difficult. A lot of people end up not being able to cut it and drop out before the end of the semester. You can do it though if you make a concious choice to make it a priority. As for the i-dev stuff, that really isn't my area of expertise I'm afraid, but the people doing it here seem happy (and you always have that Harvard connection for additional options). We do put a lot of people into nonprofits/NGOs.

Okay, current Fletcher student here. I almost never come on here anymore (they really have a way of keeping you busy here), but I received a ton of help on these forums when I was making my desicion last year and try to pay it forward. A few comments on the discussion going on here: You won't find this, because it doesn't exist. Honestly, in terms of academic/professional outcomes, SAIS and Fletcher are about as alike as two schools can be. That's certainly not to say the experience you will get at the two schools is the same, far from it, just that at the end of the day you'll have similar opportunities no matter where you go. So relax! You've gotten into two of the top schools for your field, you're going to be fine regardless of your choice so long as you put the work in. In the end it really just comes down to money and personal fit (that is, where you think you'd be happier/more comfortable/more academically fulfilled, etc...this is where the various schools diverge). One thing I'll point out: Fletcher can be every bit as quant heavy as SAIS. The only difference between the two is at SAIS they force you to do it regardless of your level of interest, and at Fletcher its purely voluntary. Which is one reason I chose Fletcher. I was not opposed to quant training, but having to do nearly half my classes in something mostly irrelevent to my interests seemed like a huge waste. Some people here do load up on a ton of quant classes though. Yeah, for all of SAIS' "location location location" talk (and I don't blame them for playing up their perceived strengths), we seem to place just as many people into DC spots at the end of the day. I would say the ability to intern in DC is a small advantage for SAIS, but nowhere near as significant as they make it out to be. This is definitely true! I honestly feel like I've learned at least as much outside the classroom as I have inside. It can sometimes be an issue, when you want to go to every event and just can't. SAIS, from when I visited, does indeed seem to take a more structured approach. They basically told us, "we have a system that we know works," and everyone is expected to conform to it. Fletcher is more about choice and flexibility. Not saying either is objectively better, but I myself preferred the latter.

Hey Jose, I'd be happy to answer. Basically, Fletcher was the only one that had the fewest strikes against it. Georgetown was too expensive, Maxwell wasn't in the same tier as the others, Chicago seemed kind of hopeless outside of academia, and I just didn't get a great vibe from SAIS when I visited. In a nutshell, it was far toohigh-strung and "DC" for me, although I'm sure many people like it for precisely that reason. Also, the econ requirement is just silly if you're not going into a field that needs a ton of econ (for a bunch of people who fancy themselves economists they don't really seem to grasp the concept of opportunity cost). It IS a really impressive school though. Anyway, in the end Fletcher seemed like a very welcoming place with a great community, and I'm happy to say that has turned out to be an accurate assessment. EVeryone here is great, and the resources of the school are absolutely amazing. I'd be happy to answer whatever specific questions you may have about the place to the best of my ability. The one negative thing I will say about Fletcher is while you can study a language here, they really don't make it easy. It can be done, my roommate is in accelerated Chinese and managing, but it can be a pain. I guess you just really have to be disciplined and block out the time.

Current Fletcher student here, just want to say good luck to everyone! Also, if anyone has any questions I would be happy to try and help.

Hey Talons, I'd be very curious to know what program this is. If you're not comfortable posting it feel free to pm me, and if you're not comfortable with that, please ignore this message Anyway, yes, like deadhead said while there is some overlap the skill set you would acquire in a professional program and the services it can offer you toward finding a job is quite different.

This is what I hear as well. I don't have personal experience at HNC (does anyone on this board?) but I've known a few people who went through it. Of the two people I know who went through it in the last year, one was extremely enthusiastic and basically said it changed his life, while the other was extremely cynical about the fact that he took out loans for what he saw as a huge waste of time (I should note that the first guy is doing the full masters while the second is just doing the certificate).The general consensus was that many of the Chinese courses were kind of a joke and many students were simply not up to par language-wise, which is why you need the extra semester in DC. Also, they both made clear that this is not the be treated as a language course. You have to come in knowing Chinese, as you aren't going to just magically learn it on the fly the way some of their classmates were expecting. However it does seem like a very interesting year and the networking is undeniably great if that's your thing. Okay, so this is from a few years ago, but I feel the need to clear this up: Tufts is NOT quant heavy. In fact, its probably the least quant heavy of all the major programs. We take one econ class (which can be a basic principles class if you're coming in with no experience), and one quant class like stats/data analysis. You can certainly take more, and many people do, but unlike other programs its completely optional if you've picked a non-economic focus. In fact many of us chose Fletcher because we didn't see the point in nearly half our courses being in something unrelated to our professional goals.

Haha, for a second I was like, that sounds oddly familiar...yeah, the JHU threads were a hoot, it basically just devolved into a conversation about whether a certain poster was trolling or not. It got really bizarre at one point when he started talking about how no one will respect him and he'll never get a date again if he goes to SAIS. I really do wonder what became of him... Fletcher was basically the best all around compromise. Which isn't exactly the most ringing endorsement, but that's how it shook out. Georgetown was too expensive. SAIS was clearly not for me as I described above. Syracuse was not on the same level as the others. Chicago was probably the best fit and the one I was most excited about, but after visiting I couldn't shake the feeling it was way too theoretical, lacked practical training and was kind of clueless at finding you employment outside academia. But alas, the heart wanted Chicago. A couple years ago I would've just done Chicago and found a job myself, but I was sort of forced out of my field of expertise due to health reasons (long story short, due to an underlying health problem I can't be living in the third world anymore), so I'm basically starting from scratch here and thus need a strong alumnae network and job placement record. Fletcher seemed nice, good community, good courses, good reputation, etc. I liked how it was outside the beltway (although a lot of people deride it for precisely that reason) and was a bit more academic in its outlook rather than purely professional. They also offered me a decent aid package. Yeah, that's about it. It was the only one that didn't have any major strikes against it, haha. Honestly, I no longer know what I'm going to do with it now that I can no longer do the Indiana Jones stuff that was my bread and butter, which sucks. I definitely don't want to be working in a 9-5 office job. I do like IR, so I figure I'll go for at least one year and hopefully find something new I like...and if not, back to the drawing board (I'm also strongly considering a history PhD). Haha sorry, probably not the response you were looking for. Where exactly in China were you? I spent three years in Beijing and a semester in Xinjiang.

I actually came out of it with a pretty good opinion, all things considered. By that point I'd been in DC a few days and was pretty tired and fed up (if I hadn't driven this home enough, I really hate that city!), and I knew I probably wouldn't be going to Georgetown for price reasons, but I still came out of the open house with a positive impression. They were much more laid back than SAIS, and just came off as more...confident? Confident is probably the best word. I guess when you're #1 in the rankings you have less to prove (and yes, rankings are silly and arbitrary, but they are the first way a lot of people perceive you). They weren't so in your face with how awesome and amazing they are, and I liked how it seemed like a much smaller, more intimate cohort where you could really get to know your classmates and professors. The student population was basically the same as SAIS, with a lot of the same students visiting both...everyone was very professional, very policy-oriented. I felt like a damn flower child amongst all the Accenture and BoozAllen people. You do have a few prereqs your first year, including some quant courses (I think stats, trade, and finance?), but still much more flexible than SAIS. A few more things: First, they are VERY professional in their orientation. Of course, so is SAIS, but Georgetown really emphasizes professional skills over all else. They straight up said to us we probably would not be writing any papers longer than five pages, because they are essentially training you to churn out memos the way your future State Department bosses want them. That was a turn off for me, but for others that could be a positive. I would also point out that Georgetown is more known for placing people into government work, just as SAIS is a bit better known for private sector. Someone called them "the West Point of the Foreign Service." Of course this is far from 100% (SAIS produces its share of public sector types and vice versa), but maybe something to keep in mind depending on what your goals are. Finally, their admissions rate is lower than the others, but its still not particulary low when compared to correspondingly prestigious business and law schools. I believe its around 25%. I had some real holes in my app and still managed to get in, so I would by no means rule it out if you like it. Just treat it as a reach school. I would NOT be overly concerned about your employment prospects. Their 6 month employment figure last year was 95%, which is about the same as SAIS and Fletcher, if not slightly higher. While the economy and sequestration make things tougher for everyone, if you go to one of the top schools you should be fine...or at least better off than people who didn't. If you go into my profiles and click on "reputation," I have an older post giving some impressions on my visit to SAIS. Feel free to check it out.

Yeah, they basically straight up tell you "this is what we do. This is a winning formula and its what we think is best for you." Some people like that. Personally, I backed away slowly (although this had just as much to do with their highfalutin attitude and not wanting to get sucked into DC culture, which they were very much steeped in). Its a very impressive school, but quite a bit narrower in the kind of person who would really thrive there, IMO.

Nice, I've got one hell of a reading list to sort through thanks to yall. Thanks!

I had zero econ experience prior to applying to SAIS, but due to a high GRE quant score (its not that I can't do math, I just don't want to!) and a solid interview I ended up getting in with a nice scholarship. So it definitely can be done. But then, like you, I realized I'm really not that into econ and don't want to come out of grad school as a proto-economist with neocon tendencies (the visit wasn't great either, it was waaay too "DC" for me), and ended up turning SAIS down. I then took my first intro econ course this summer, and lo and behold, found out that econ really isn't my thing and belatedly realized I'd made the right choice to turn them down. I don't know how I ever would have done six classes of that! My point is, if you don't love econ, SAIS is probably not the best choice for you. They love to talk about how 100% of their students come out of SAIS just luuuurving economics, "and you will too if you just give it a chance!" but are you really willing to stake the next two years of your life on that claim when there are equally good and much more flexible programs out there?

Thanks guys, this is all very interesting stuff, since I'm really starting from scratch here. Telkanaru, my thoughts on needing Italian were more along the lines of, if I'm studying medieval Christianity I'll likely be spending some time in Italy, rummaging through archives and whatnot, and will probably need decent familiarity with Italian to talk to archivists, as well as the normal day to day getting around. One step at a time though! I'll actually be living in Boston next year, so maybe I should check out Harvard extension, thanks for that heads up. On a separate note, Harvard is one of like five or so schools in the US that offers Uyghur and Chagatai (I think?) as languages of study if I wanted to go the silk road route. In fact, they have a whole research arm just devoted to study of Central Asia. Again though, one step at a time, and for now I'm mainly interested in Medieval Christianity. I do like this idea of greater permeability between disciplines, bringing things like archaeology and microbiology to the analysis of history. Being able to approach history from more than one perspective makes a lot of sense to me, so I could definitely see myself doing that. Of course, I assume that would require a lot more training, but that only excites me. That's a good sign, right? AndeanPat, sounds like a very interesting topic! I actually touched on some modern Peruvian history in my senior thesis a few years back (I have intellectual ADD, so sue me). And as far as borderlands go, I'm really interested in China's bordering regions, with Southeast Asia in the south, Russia/Korea/Mongolia in the north, and Central Asia in the west. The overlapping identities and loyalties of the peoples there, and how this effects Chinese government policy and propaganda, is a topic I could go on and on about but won't right now because it isn't the topic of this thread, haha. Always happy to talk about it though. Kirialax, thanks for the suggestion. That books looks right up my alley. Maybe a bit earlier than what I'm currently looking at, but best to start at the beginning, right? Telkanuru said the market for Byzantine historians (Byzantianists?) is tough going right now, just out of curiosity how does it look from your perspective? Okay, one last question for now for either you three or anyone else who cares to chime in: What are your personal favorite books on Medieval history? Either the most interesting, or just the best written? What are the books that made you say, "Man, I could see myself studying this"? Personally, I read Will Durant's Age of Faith when I was about 12, and it got me so excited. Yes, its popular history and not an academic work, and I realize now how anachronistic it is at parts (and I'm sure much of the scholarship is now outdated), but it was beautifully written and just blew me away.

Like DupontCIrcle said, the average for most top programs is around 155ish.These programs all make a big deal about emphasizing quantitative skills, but when it comes down to it they don't expect you to score all that high. So your score won't help you, but it shouldn't hurt you too much either. You'll just have to stand out on the other parts of your app. So long as you've got a high GPA, strong recs, an interesting SOP, and relevant experience, you'll be just fine.

Wow, thank you both for some great lists! Yall really went above and beyond! Andeanpat, unfortunately I don't speak Spanish, but most of those books seem available in translation. And I don't mind at all hearing about books that aren't related to what I proposed to study, like I said my interests are still developing and I'm eager to expand my knowledge base into areas I'm not as familiar with. That is a great list though, and I appreciate the non-American perspective. Telkanuru, having already done a good amount of research I know all about the heavy language requirements for Medieval historians. Fortunately I plan on waiting a couple years before I apply to PhD programs, by which time I could conceivably have 3 years of Latin, 2 of French, and maybe 1 of German (if I'm feeling super motivated and am not too swamped with work). I figure I might need some Italian too if I'm going to be studying Christianity. This may seem like a heavy courseload, but after memorizing the thousands of arbitrary little symbols that make up the Chinese writing system just being able to study languages with alphabets (and my alphabet, to boot!) will be a pleasure. As for incorporating Chinese, considering I already have Chinese and a little bit of Uyghur under my belt, maybe I can do something with the economics of the Silk Road? I'm really not a quant guy, but maybe if I give it enough thought I can think of some way to riff on that... Just out of curiosity, may I ask what you two are specifically studying? Also, is anyone able to tell me what the "hot topics" are in Medieval history right now? Or, you know, the closest thing to a "hot" topic, since as I understand Medieval studies in general aren't exactly hot right now. Not because I'm looking to get in on something trendy, I'm just trying to get a feel for the current trends in the discipline. Is it social history? Women's history? Medieval economics? Comparative? Transnational? What are the kids into these days? Thanks for your help, and if anyone has any other books they'd like to recommend, I'd still love to hear it!

Hey guys, so first off, apologies for what will surely come off as an uber-noob post. I usually post over on the government affairs forum, but I've migrated over to the history forum to ask for some advice. I've always thought about going for a PhD in history. I majored in European history as an undergrad, and even though I've since moved away from history toward international relations and Asian Studies, the idea has always remained in the back of my head. I was mainly deterred as an undergrad by the dismal job market and by my adviser, a rather embittered medievalist who had just been denied tenure because she generally terrified everyone. While I'm aware that the job market for Europeanists remains moribund, I would like to at least explore the prospect. While my research interests are still very nebulous, I am very interested in basically anything having to do with Christianity in daily life: monasticism, local saints/cults/myths, popular heretical movements, etc. I would also be interested in trying to find some way to perhaps incorporate all those Chinese language skills I've built up, maybe researching trade and cultural exchange between Europe and the Far East in the high middle ages (limited though it was). Anyway! I'd like to know if anyone out there can recommend some books for me to read this year that might help me decide if taking the plunge into a PhD is right for me. Either key books about Medieval history that every aspiring Medievalist should be familiar with, or books about the historical discipline in general that every PhD student should read. Basically, I'd like to read some of the key books of the discipline, to both get caught up on current trends and theories as well as figure out whether or not this is something I love enough to devote the rest of my life to. So if anyone out there can recommend some books to get me started, I would be much obliged. Thanks!

So where are you going next year, Revolution?

Okay, granted she may be tying up funding and this is a less than ideal way to go about things, but the situation itself seems less than ideal and out of the norm. To say she "disgusts" you is WAY out of proportion to the situation at hand. Jesus, there are some real drama queens on this board... Anyway, Dani, sorry to hear you probably won't be at Fletcher, since you were one of the original major cheerleaders for it on this board and I've somewhat come to associate it with you and a couple others on here, but best of luck at SIPA!

Cool, see you next year!

Yeah, barring unforeseen circumstances I'm almost certainly going with Fletcher (could still theoretically accept at Chicago). As I said, SAIS is super impressive if you want to be a Beltway IR type, but I just don't know how well I'd fit it there... Revolution, I dare say after all this I'm curious to hear where you DO end up...

I say go to Fletcher...but only in the interest of having you as a classmate next year (barring some kind of revelation over the next few days I'm almost certainly going to be at Fletcher next year). I can't really comment on SIPA, since I didn't apply and a lot of what I know is colored by what I've read on here (much of it negative, most of it no doubt unfairly so). But here's my two cents on your concerns about Fletcher: yes, Medford is...moribund (although I've heard positive things about Somerville), but keep in mind its a 5 minute drive to Boston, which is an awesome cosmopolitan city that punches way above its weight. You'll be in one of the great cultural, professional, and educational hubs in the US. Maybe it's not New York, but it's also not Medford! Additionally, there are close to 200 students at Fletcher. I find it very hard to believe all 200 of those people will suck; you may not love everyone, but you will definitely find people to be friends with. Keep in mind a lot of us weren't at the open house, and I happen to think I'm pretty awesome. And humble. PS Would it be possible for your friend to get you that internship during the Summer?

Well, if nothing else, this thread has reminded me of why I never, ever want to live in DC

Haha, this actually describes the general over the top theatrics of the scene perfectly. Funny, while searching old SAIS posts on this site I came across a thread from 2009 describing another "surprise" visit from Mr. Blitzer I also have a much more favorable impression of him after his talk; he came off as intelligent and thoughtful, awkward jokes about his beeper aside.