rising_star

Travel/recruitment funds may be more limited this year due to the budget situations at most universities and in most departments. And actually, I think I went on a visit in late Feb back when I applied because I'd already been admitted. March is definitely more typical, and April is a bit late since it's really close to when you have to make a decision. Fridays are usually good social days for being around but bad for attending class so try to do a Thursday/Friday if you want to sit on a seminar.

This really varies by state. In my current state, I could not become a resident for tuition purposes unless I dropped down to part-time enrollment and worked full-time for 12 consecutive months. So basically, as out-of-state grad students, we have zero incentive to even get a driver's license in this state since we will never be in-state for tuition purposes.

What is this African American majority you speak (write) of? I don't know that it's about past compensation as much as it is about being given equal opportunities today. The thing is, people usually do have an idea about the applicants race. They've met you at a conference, they or assume know it from an affiliation you list on your CV, they guess based on your name (and that's the dimension some of the I/O psych studies look at). And, to be fair, most departments don't ask about race; it's the graduate school that asks. So, it could very well be that at the department level, admissions are race-blind (to the extent that such a thing is possible and ignoring that you can infer someone's race from their undergraduate institution, particularly if they attend an HBCU). Just because you don't see them suffering doesn't mean that they aren't. Who are you to say that they don't experience racism in the course of their everyday lives, that they haven't been passed over for a job/internship because the interviewer disliked the color of their skin when they walked in the door, or that they aren't looked at funny in the mall for holding hands with someone of another race? I'm asking this in all seriousness. Just as I can't say that you haven't experienced disadvantages because of your upbringing, you can't say what others have and have not experienced in their personal lives. Seriously. And it's not as if the Jim Crow era politics aren't still around.

Most universities have some sort of tuition waiver system set up for those who get fellowships or assistantships. And, departments usually get a chunk of these so it doesn't matter to them whether the students are in-state or out-of-state. Think about it this way: if you apply from undergrad, your university address may be in one state and your permanent residence in another. The universities don't ask what state you are a resident of because it doesn't matter to them for admissions.

Affirmative action is NOT the law. The law prohibits discrimination by race and sex (and by age, I think?). Affirmative action came into being as a way of giving minorities opportunities they might not otherwise get, or at least that's always been my understanding of it. I don't think it's fair to equate having to work multiple jobs with being a minority. It ignores the systematic things in place that make it harder for minorities to get accepted to and attend elite universities, which in turn affects graduate admissions (as numerous threads on here have been concerned with). I'm not sure I understand why you think it's okay for affirmative action at the high school and college level but not at the graduate level. Are you saying that the playing field gets automatically leveled once someone acquires a bachelor's degree? I don't think affirmative action creates this misconception, I think it is a reaction to the already existing misconception. That may seem like a subtle wording difference but it has huge ramifications in the "real world". I think what many minorities would want is to not need affirmative action because it would mean that their qualifications are taken seriously. But, studies (particularly in I/O psych) have repeatedly shown us that if you give an employer the same qualifications in two candidates, the white candidate will get the job over the black candidate. In that case, affirmative action might actually help someone qualified get a job they would not otherwise get. The New York Times actually had some articles on this on MLK Day. Shades of Prejudice, which is really about skin color, and another on how college degrees don't close the racial gap. You may be interested in the, First off, you're calling affirmative action "discrimination", right? So, trying to make sure that people aren't systematically disadvantaged because of the color of their skin is problematic in your eyes. I'm going to assume that you find it equally problematic when people are not given chances that they presumably have earned/deserve/that their work merits because of the color of their skin, even though you don't say this. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Can you give some evidence to support the things you've listed as costs of discrimination? For example, you cite grading and graduation. As a TA, I don't care what color someone's skin is. I grade their work based on the assignment's criteria and what they submit. So, in that case, I'm not sure how that relates to "discrimination". How do you figure that the academic mission of the university and the academic quality of the student body are lowered due to affirmative action? How do you know it mismatches students and institutions (and how on earth could this be separated from countless confounding factors like 16 year olds not knowing what they want to do with their lives?)? Also, as far as I know, the only time that blood gets factored into group membership is when it comes to Native Americans determining who is a proper member of the tribe. The rest relies on self-reported data.

Oh Come on guys! We can at least try to talk about race and hope it doesn't disintegrate into the usual crap. Here goes: In a nutshell, my answer to the OP's question is that while it may not matter for admissions, it can matter for funding. Many universities have graduate school wide diversity fellowships for which they nominate minority applicants. I'm going to cite a comment from Insider Higher Ed and a recent magazine article. "In 1992, half of all doctoral degrees awarded to black scholars in the USA were in just one subject, education. Most of the rest were in social work or sociology. Not one was in atomic physics, astronomy, microbiology, nuclear engineering, geophysics, endocrinology, biomedical engineering, oceanography, cell biology, accounting, business economics, comparative literature, genetics, or archeology. None was in algebra, geometry, statistics, or logic. There were none in geography or paleontology, or in German, Italian, Spanish or Russian, nor any in classics. But, there were 500 in education and nearly as many in sociology. (Source: Summary Report, 1992, National Academy Press, Washington, D.C.) How can M.I.T. or any other college meet a racial quota among its astronomy, genetics, or mathematics faculty unless black graduate students seek doctorates in those subjects? They can't hire nothing but sociologists." - Jack Olson, see here The article itself is actually about hiring but it's an interesting read nonetheless. The second thing is from the Princeton Alumni Weekly. The article is about Asian-Americans and Princeton graduate admissions. It starts off by pointing out that the university has a visit weekend for minority graduate students in April of each year but that Asian-Americans aren't included because they aren't an underrepresented graduate student population and then goes on to criticize this (though it's not nearly as critical as it could/should be, imo).

I agree with fuzzylogician. My department isn't a brand-name but we have graduate students and faculty publishing in the top journals in the discipline. Seriously, one of my grad school colleagues has single-authored articles coming out in the flagship US and UK journals this year. So, clearly people in my program are capable of getting published in top journals even if our university's name isn't super widely recognized (though our name recognition is growing in part due to people like my publishing-machine friend). Things may work differently in my field since co-authored papers aren't the norm.

Generally, departments are limited in the number of students they can nominate. So no, it's not likely that there are separate piles for admission and fellowship. More likely, fellowship nominees are selected from the pool of applicants the department is going to admit either way. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

irockhard, it's one thing to express interest in a professor's research while applications are pending and quite another to email a POI to ask when admissions decisions are going to be sent out.

My understanding of CGS has been that it only applies to funded offers. At any rate, I second everything UnlikelyGrad has said. Schools don't want a bunch of applicants stringing them along and, in these days of tight finances, probably want the opportunity to offer the funding to another qualified applicant who they might otherwise have to reject.

Why would you have to think of yourself as an inferior? I get treated by my professors as a junior colleague, meaning that they treat me and my work honestly and with respect. Now sometimes this means they don't couch their criticism at all but other times it's awesome and means I go to happy hour and drink with my favorite professors.

My current department accepted me in mid-March, with no prior contact whatsoever. The emailed acceptance (with PDF attached) came as a bit of a shock, because I assumed since I hadn't heard I was either on the waitlist or about to be rejected. But, I got in with funding. They just took a long time to make decisions. Depending on the department, I either heard via website/email first or via phone call from POI. But, way back when I applied to master's programs, not as many schools had online sites for you to check. So, I actually got an acceptance via snail smail, in a thin envelope. Given that it came within a month of the deadline, I assumed it was a rejection and, to make matters worse, my school's mailroom had put a sticker over part of the envelope. Over which part? The part that said "Accepted" on the front, presumably so people wouldn't panic about the contents of the thin envelope.

If your thesis advisor likes/respects you, they will call you with the news. That's how I, and most of my friends, found out when I was a second year MA student.

It makes you eligible for federal subsidized loans, which are available to all graduate students regardless of income (afaik).

waylance, I wouldn't visit unless you've been admitted with funding. And, I'd plan to visit all the US schools you get admitted to in one big trip.

So, we've had this conversation in a few other places but I wanted to create a more centralized place for the discussion. Is it better to have children in graduate school or once you've earned the PhD? And, if in graduate school, when? This morning I was watching Good Morning America and heard this story, which says that study results show that 90% of a woman's eggs are lost by the age of 30. That could be bad news for some of the people on this forum planning to wait to have children... And, guys, feel free to chime in too. If your partner has a child while you're in graduate school, how will that affect you?

Yes, they're actually the only kind of school visits I ever did. No, you don't need a dress suit. If female, I'd go with dark jeans and a decent shirt. If male, maybe khakis and a button-down? That's the fanciest you'll need to get. This isn't about them seeing if they want to admit you. Really, they're presenting themselves to you and trying to show off for you. So, come prepared with questions about the program, its faculty, its resources, etc. And treat every situation as if you're the one doing the interviewing (because you are--to see if they are the right program for you). These things are generally laidback, and the atmosphere with other students is awesome because no one is competing against anyone else. Oh, and don't drink too much!

downtownchick, are you talking about financial aid (loans) or departmental funding? Since income isn't taken into consideration for TA/RA positions, I don't see how getting married could affect that.

I'd bet they changed when acceptances go out due to all the program shuffling that's going on at USC right now. That, combined with the closure of some top-notch programs like their Geography Department, may have led to them getting more applicants than usual too. Anyways, good luck to you all! Hope the wait won't be too long.

Are you referring to me? I never said that the AW is the only thing taken into consideration. What I am saying is that there are numerous fields where they don't require or even ask for a writing sample, including my own. Consequently the AW score and the SOP are the only two things they have to use as evidence of your writing abilities.

No. They probably can't afford to fly you in for an interview.

For many, it's really not feasible to wait that long. Let's say you start a PhD straight out of undergrad at the age of 22. It'll take 5-7 years to finish, so let's say 28. Then 6-7 years for tenure, so 34 before you have your first child. Waiting that long would definitely make it difficult to have more than one child, and that's ignoring the fact that you still have to do all the pre-tenure things after tenure if you expect to be promoted. And, I totally took the best case scenario where you get a tenure-track job you like as soon as you finish the PhD, without doing a post-doc or visiting professor or lecturer position somewhere for a year or two. If you take any time off before starting or are a postdoc or VAP, add 2-3 years to that 34 which makes it 36-37.

Have you talked to female faculty members, particularly those in the first two years, about the pressures on their time? You have to publish your dissertation, teach 2-4 courses per semester, get new research started, advise/mentor undergraduate students, and serve on departmental and university committees. You definitely don't have to do all of that as a graduate student... And that's before even considering that your tenure clock starts as soon as you accept the job. You have 6 years, period. Whereas as a graduate student, you could take a semester off or delay graduation by a semester or a year if you need to. Not going to happen as faculty. At best, you'll get a course release, but that won't absolve you of your other responsibilities, the least of which will be turning that dissertation into articles or a book.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how you look at it. Many of my friends were making $50K/year immediately following graduation. I went and got a MA, and now the PhD. What will they be making with 6-7 years of work experience under their belt? What will I be making as an assistant professor? I can tell you that starting salaries in my discipline are $50-60K/year and that's after getting the MA and PhD... Or, think about the GS scale for the US federal government. Sure you may be able to start at GS-9 instead of GS-7, but those with 2 years of experience at the GS-7 level are also eligible for the GS-9 jobs... AND, they've been making GS-7 pay while you've been living on a graduate stipend or worse, you've been unfunded and have student loans of $50K to repay. And that's just for the master's. PhDs start at GS-12/13, but again, someone else can get there with experience and with having made more money than you all along.

curufinwe, have you ever been a grader? I probably spend the same amount of time on a 4 pg essay that ETS readers spend on the 6-8 paragraphs people write for their AW. Theoretically, that means the ETS scorers should be more accurate with their scoring than I am, not less. My question, which you seem to have missed, is WHY would professors discount the AW grade and not the transcript based on your own criteria of who is doing the grading? My guess is that some programs request a writing sample because they want to see how students write about a topic in their area of interest, in an untimed situation, and with the opportunity to revise and conduct outside research. That said, in two rounds of applying (MA and PhD), I only applied to one program that requested a writing sample. Presumably the others assessed my writing through my SOP and the AW score since that's all they had.