philstudent1991

Not really true, just because when jobs get 300+ applicants, they aren't going to do the work that would be needed to really figure out who the very best is. They will be happy with "pretty good." And whatever raw talent one has going into grad school, being developed by faculty is hugely important, and while I'm the last person that would say only highly ranked programs have goo faculty, overall you are likely to get better professional development at a highly research active, plugged in department.

Georgia State has faculty working in ancient, and students have the opportunity to take Greek at Emory for free. That's a pretty good deal I think for those so inclined. Of course, I wouldn't call it an "ancient philosophy MA."

Yes, either directly in that classes transfer, or indirectly in that you are more focused and on top of things than people coming straight out of undergrad.

Ian if you blogged regularly like Leiter, about graduate admissions and philosophy (issues in philosophy, sociology of philosophy, issues in higher ed, etc.) I would read your blog every day. I would have it as a favorite at the top of my browser.

Ya, but if I'm on an ad comm, and the applicant says their interest is ethics but they didn't take an ethics class, I'd be worried they don't have adequate background. Ideally, your best paper is in your AOI anyway. But ya, if easily your best paper is in something else, send that.

Why would you have to retake GRE? Is it expiring? Every circumstance is different but generally an unranked PhD is not the ticket to job success. Even the ranked but lower ranked ones don't have very good placement. Of course, top MAs are a roll of the dice too. Tough decision.

I disagree with your disagreement lol. If I say my interest is in ethics and I submit a paper in ancient, they will think that's weird. If she likes ethics, why doesn't she have a good paper in ethics? How do we know if she knows the literature, can write on it, etc. In your case your paper must have just been pretty good so it didn't matter. But I have heard of programs, later in the process, asking an applicant to send in another sample in their interests, because it's so important they see you can write in your interests. Just me tho. So I know this isn't supposed to be successful people cheering up unsuccessful ones. I was 0/11 in PhDs last season so I totally relate to how the OP feels. Definitely I was down. More than that I was angry. I had done so well in undergrad, the GRE, had strong letters, the things I thought mattered. I now realized GRE doesn't matter unless it's awful. And GPA and letters only matter if they are from a good school. Almost always, unless you are at a school on "the list", then you aren't going anywhere. But fortunately, that's what MAs are for, and I had more success applying to MAs (2/1/0) and am quite happy at one, and cautiously optimistic about my Phd prospects in the future. But definitely it doesn't mean anything about you or your work. Everyone is so good. And there is all kinds of chance involved. Maybe they didn't need anyone in your interests, or took fewer people than usual, or the ad comm member who read your file was sick, hungry, upset, etc. when she read yours, whatever. Lots of random stuff. If you are in at an MA, good luck applying out again. If not, you could still apply out, I just don't know how much one can improve their application outside of school. I wouldn't count someone as a loser who decided to not go on in philosophy. Probably, you'd be the smartest of us all

In fact, there's every reason to wait. Some programs will bump up their funding late in the game to sweeten the deal. Obvi the waitlist people want those above them to pull the trigger, but in all honesty an accepted applicant has no reason to rush into a decision. The holdup is with the schools (nudge nudge UCLA Stanford and Columbia) that wait till March to release and have their prospective weekends in April.

Seems like you have already made up your mind sounds like a great opportunity!

I'm not sure what you mean by insane. If you mean insane as in insanely good teaching preparation, then I agree. Ha, but no the concern over workload is a real one. My understanding, however, is that GSU students only take one or even 0 classes in the fall semester of their second year, and then something like one in their second semester. For the most part, the first year is coursework, the second year is teaching, thesis and phd apps. That would keep one busy, I would think, but doesn't seem unreasonable, and as I mentioned before, seems like awesome preparation for teaching. And of course, discovering you don't like teaching is a good thing to discover in an MA rather than a PhD, or if you don't go on, it will be nice to have had the chance to teach. Oh, and I think you can teach critical thinking or intro to philosophy depending on availability. The website has a lot of information. Good luck with your decision!

Firstly, I think Ian's post is very helpful. Secondly, it is hard to identify specific placement for ethics, since most of the same advisors work in ethics and political, and also sometimes ethics overlaps with Kant, so teasing out exactly who gets placed in what is tough. If you look at GSU theses over the past two years, there are only two that can be conservatively categorized as ethics, and they are now at Cornell and UC Riverside. But there are tons of theses in political, and their placement is diverse and in any sense of the word "strong", and I imagine many of those folks were interested in ethics as well (remember, thesis topic doesn't always track interests; very often students have major additional interests that don't show up in the thesis). My broader comment on placement is that NIU and GSU both have very good placement, and not just of the sort that Ian warns about, of having one or two elite people distracting from a broader pattern of weak placements. If you are interested in ethics, GSU has lots of faculty interested in that, and seems to be the better choice with respect to that element of your decision. Of course, you must decide whether funding is adequate, whether you would prefer DeKalb or Atlanta, etc. etc. I would definitely ask about such things at prospective weekends as well and email current students working in your area. Good luck in your decision; I think you can't go wrong!

This is my instinct too just based on my perceptions of the programs, but only you can really weigh fit and personal factors and how the funding stacks up.

^100-150 page thesis? Boy, that's not what I think of when I think of a thesis. I think 30-50. No idea which is closer to standard.

On smaller cohorts, I actually think bigger cohorts are a good thing, provided that there is a proportionately large faculty and no one is getting edged out for advisors. The big cohort makes for a better social climate, more diversity, more course offerings, etc. IMHO

It worked for me earlier but it is broken for me now as well. No, it only listed five offers made. No news on the status of said offers.

I had this thought as well. No idea what the programs are so I don't know if this is actually the case, but my thought was that how could a letter writer at this MA sincerely recommend a student for doctoral study if they haven't seen them work on an MA thesis, and in fact, they may think (given what the OP said) that the student is in fact not capable of an MA thesis, and surely then not capable of a dissertation. Just imagine the difference between the letters: "This student completed an MA thesis under my direction on X where she argued Y, and it was very good." versus "I have no idea if this student can work well without direction or not. I realize that phd attrition is almost entirely during the dissertation stage, and I have no special reason to think this student will be prepared for that. I know you would be making a big investment in accepting this student. So what do you say? Want to roll the dice? ;)" Obv this is hyperbole but the point is that I agree with agrizz that the program not seeming to think too highly of its students capabilities is a red flag to me. Maybe there is something I'm missing.

All else being equal, thesis for sure. Some MA programs (that have both tracks) have a policy of not writing letters for those that don't do a thesis in order to encourage students, in the most extreme of ways, to do the thesis . The thesis is huge opportunity to work closely with instructors, get a really solid writing sample, give letter writers good material for their LORs, and it's great practice for the things that will be asked of you during a dissertation. And if I were an adcomm (which I'm not), I would be much more impressed by a student who did a thesis than by one who didn't.

Ya, if it were me I could see myself beating myself up over it later if I let the offer go by. Go see if you like it, apply out if you don't. You will develop a lot more as an applicant at a phd program than you would outside of philosophy, or whatever you planned on doing. And, of course, there's a chance that you might like the program! I say go for it.

I think you should def bring him to see the campus and the area and what not, but most of the info will be specific to you and your program and not relevant to him. And in my experience I don't recall seeing any SOs at past prospective weekends, although occasionally younger folks bring parents. But even then, the parents don't attend most of the events. But that's just my experience, maybe others will have a different perspective.

I don't attend either program, but it seems from what I'm hearing that UCONN has more of a sense of itself, while UWM may be in a bit of an upheaval right now with their chair and probably most recognizable scholar (Shafer-Landau) leaving, plus funding cuts that will prevent them from being competitive in getting top names to replace him. If nothing changes, UWM will probably take a hit in the next PGR (though maybe not), while it seems that UCONN is on the rise. All just speculation though.

I'll PM you.

Ya I wouldn't ask those specific questions but a general question about how you could improve your app for next time would be appropriate. I did just this and got helpful answers from 2 or 3 schools. But you probably won't learn anything you don't know. The formula for getting in is well known: excellent grades, excellent GRE, excellent letters, excellent sample, excellent fit, some pedigree and some luck, that's all it takes

I know Michigan started releasing yesterday. Maryland and Penn were a while back. If you've heard nothing it may mean that you are waitlisted. It's hard to say. Some people might advise you to reach out and see where you stand, and maybe others can speak to whether that's a good idea.

I think you'll be fine

I agree with PreciselyTerrified, express your interest and that you would accept the offer if it came (if that's true!).