philstudent1991

This advice is directed towards a lot of folks on this forum. Don't hesitate to apply to MAs, especially if you are coming from a non-elite undergrad. Most people, including me when I came out of undergrad, just don't realize how much pedigree matters in PhD admissions. Eric Schwitzgebel has compiled some pretty substantial data on this: http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2011/10/sorry-cal-state-students-no-princeton.html The folks that get in at the top schools are from the very best undergraduate institutions or stood out at the top MA programs. So please, don't waste 1500 applying to the top 15 just to get shut out. Apply broadly, and consider applying to MAs. There are several great philosophy terminal MA programs. Check their placement pages and faculty pages to determine if one might be right for you. For starters, consider Georgia State, Northern Illinois, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Western Michigan, Missouri-St. Louis or Houston, and if you have deep pockets, look into Brandeis and Tufts.

Philosophy majors have the highest verbal GRE scores of any major. So, anything below 160 would be alarming to an ad comm I'd think. 165+ would be best, and there will be a good deal of applicants with 169 and 170 applying to the top programs. Quant, according to some, isn't as important for most fields in philosophy, unless it is alarmingly low. In the 150s would probably be fine, all else being in order. The AW section is generally thought not to matter, since they have your sample. Two caveats: First, if English is not your native language, ignore everything I just said. Your TOEFLS will need to be elite to convince the ad comm you will be able to swim in a graduate program in a language foreign to you, but the GRE shouldn't matter as much. I have never been a foreign applicant however and I can't speak from experience. Anyway, second caveat: most ad comms will bend over backwards to assure applicants that the GRE is not taken very seriously. While it may be involved in some first cuts, or it may be used in some university wide funding calculations, it takes a backseat by far to the letters, GPA, sample and institution of origin. Some people think it matters some, some people think it should be ignored, but anyone will tell you that it is the least important (though of course most expensive) feature of your application.

You might consider going to a terminal MA first. Even if you take time off to polish the sample, coming from a continental school without much background in analytic is going to hurt you. You might look into Georgia State, NIU, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Western Michigan, Houston, University of Missouri-Si. Louis among others.

Does anyone have any insight on what programs pay to fly out admitted applicants? If anyone can offer something like "I attend university X and university X funded my fly out", that would be very helpful. Or, for example, WUSTL says on their website that they will cover travel fees. Evidence of this kind would be helpful too. Thanks!

Oregon, Depaul, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Stony Brook, Fordham...these are good continental schools. I think you'll have to take the GRE. I'm not aware of any reputable schools that do not require it. MIT didn't, but I think even they do now. Your background is probably a credential in your favor, though some might question that you really know what you're getting yourself into. Why not apply though!

MA programs sound like the way to go. UW Milwaukee happens to have an excellent MA program, so I would definitely recommend you apply there.

The best MA program for continental is probably Georgia State, and they also regularly offer seminars and other courses in philosophy of science.

Thanks for your insights! I mean the department, not Texas in general. I can't really elaborate any more than that; I don't know the details. I just hear it's not a good climate, especially for women but really for anybody. Is that just crazy rumor or is there something to it?

zblaesi, 1. Besides Dancy, who are you planning on working with in metaethics? 2. So, if you can, shoot straight with us. Texas does not have a good reputation as far as climate goes. Have things changed or is it still a "snake pit" as I've repeatedly heard it called?

That's interesting, because I think most folks think philosophers are moral relativists. But there are actually very few who are. Many instructors I know like to teach moral relativism and then follow it up with an article on FGM or something equally objectionable to show the students that they aren't the relativists they thought they were when they read Benedict or whoever the week before.

I was wondering about that. It seems like you can phrase the question more politely and fruitfully this way. Rather than, "hey why'd you reject me" you can say "I was rejected at your program this time around, but I was accepted to MA program X and will be applying out in a few years' time. I was hoping you might be able to give me some advice as to how I can make the most of my time at program X."

Sure. Ask nicely. I did this as well and got feedback from several places. But also, don't expect anything profound. They will likely just say "You were great but we had 200+ applicants for 5 spots" or whatever.

And has BC placed at Oregon? Being in the same area as Harvard probably won't matter. You'll be so busy with your BC coursework that unless some class was an amazing fit and your professors recommended you take it, there just wouldn't be time. And does Harvard even let students audit? I'm not sure. It may be that you are independently wealthy, and if so that makes your decision easier. But to me, an unfunded MA, one where there are PhD students as well, has nothing on a well known, funded terminal MA, no matter what the interests are. It would be unwise to go into debt for an MA in philosophy. I can't imagine how much stress that would add to graduate school life. I would take the funded offer.

I agree that an advantage of NIU is that they are MA only, whereas BC has PhD students that will be competing for your advisor's time. And, NIU is funded whereas BC is not. Even if your interests are a better match with BC than NIU, I don't think that overrides the fact that NIU is funded, well regarded and more geared toward placement (if that's your thing). So, I recommend NIU if that's a real possibility.

To the point about people on TGC doing better than the general applicant population, this is an interesting question. For me, I enjoy having the ability to know who released when, what the profiles of successful students are like, what programs are well liked and which have poor (non-academic) reputations. I've learned a lot on this site about these kinds of things. I have also learned a lot about what makes a good applicant. The bottom line of course is you just have to be a damn good philosopher and then maybe you'll get a bite somewhere, but I have learned a lot about the Xs and Os of the application that will make me a better applicant in the future. Ask me again on this day next year and we will see what I think of grad cafe then.

GSU is a rolling deadline.

Sorry, I didn't realize that UCL was an Mphil. It's not unheard of for people to come back to the US after a British degree, from somewhere like St. Andrews. Idk about UCL but I don't see why not. I'm not sure you mentioned what your interests are. That matters a lot. You also mentioned your parents are helping you, but I'm not sure if that means that money is no object or simply that poverty is not a worry. In any case, I think that if the choice comes down to GSU or Brandeis, you can't go wrong (idk much about UCL). My instinct is that all else being equal, I'd favor the funded offer (GSU) over the unfunded one (Brandeis). Some have gone there and had great success, to be sure, but I personally just couldn't ever recommend paying for a Masters in philosophy. Also, just to be clear, it's not as if folks at ranked PhDs are all only interested in research jobs, and that as long as you only want to teach you will sail on through no matter where your degree is from. This is not so. Teaching philosophy at a small school is a dream for many people, including some of those at T25s. SLU is great and all, but don't undervalue ranking. Looking at SLU's record is a good start, but unfortunately you have to remember that this is only how their very best students fare.

So is the question which is better, Brandeis or GSU? Or is the question whether you should attend either one of them? The first question is tough and depends on your interests and other details. But the answer to the second question is easy: yes! That said, if you get into a PhD you'd be happy with, you should probably go there. I know that one's chances of getting in off the waitlist at GSU are good. From their site: "In 2014, we waitlisted thirty-one people. Of those, seventeen were offered admission. Eight withdrew from consideration before we made a decision. Six were denied."

I actually don't think the process is as opaque as some seem to think. It's very difficult, but straightforward enough. Step 1: Go to a very good undergraduate school. (If it's too late for that, go to a well-regarded and funded terminal MA) ((there are exceptions; some people do well coming from unknown undergrads, but almost no one)) Step 2: Have very good grades, especially in philosophy Step 3: Have acceptable GRE scores. I would say anything above 165V will be just fine, maybe even lower. And for Q, lower is fine (150s?) Writing should be 5 or up, maybe 4.5 and up. (Again, there are exceptions) Step 4: Have good letters of recommendations. It would seem that, coming from undergrad, having professors say "best student I've ever had" is pretty standard, due to letter inflation and just that it's more competitive than ever. But there are plenty of good letters that do not say this. Examples of how you excelled are also good. Letters from top programs and MAs will almost certainly not be so flattering, but they will mean more coming from places with better students. Step 5: Have an excellent writing sample. It doesn't need to change the discipline. It needs to have a tightly argued thesis, be crisp and professional, hook in to a contemporary debate and be grounded thoroughly in the relevant literature. Step 6: Be a good fit with the program. Even if your app is excellent, if you say you want to work on Plato and they don't have anyone doing Greek, you aren't going to be accepted. So there you have it, 6 steps to success. Obviously there are exceptions at every step, but in general this schematic is solid: Good institution, excellent grades, good GRE, great letters, excellent sample, good fit. Good luck!

I know this is a hard question, and it is likely that most people's impression of their hopes "evolved", shall we say, in the last view months. Nonetheless, this might be an interesting poll.

congrats either way!

It's within your rights to ask them if it is common for students to receive funding in the future. I would be wary though. Some students funded and some unfunded, with opportunities for future funding up in the air, seems like a recipe for a despairing, hostile and competitive environment. Great weather down there though.

Terminal MAs are a recent development. And I do think there is an edge to having purity on your transcript, i.e. straight from Harvard undergrad to Princeton PhD, or whatever. But since most normal people go to schools that are affordable and close to home, and then while in school discover their love and aptitude for philosophy, they are in a bit of a dilemma. Terminal MAs are an excellent way to bridge the gap between little known school to reputable PhD. Their placement record is proof of that. I would recommend a terminal MA in these kinds of situations without hesitation. (Georgia State, Northern Illinois, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Western Michigan, Ohio, Houston, Virginia Tech, and there are several others) What about other kinds of MAs? MA from a PhD program: Probably not. You won't get the same attention the PhD students get. Terminal MAs are about the MA students and placing them. PhD programs with MA programs attached are not like this. Unfunded MA: No. Never. Unless you are independently very wealthy, I cannot recommend an unfunded MA in any circumstance. Good luck!

There should be a lot of movement soon! Don't despair. Btw, you must have a lot of "little birdies", as they say.

Dr. Berry also does the Greeks, though her main interest is Nietzsche (including Nietzsche on the Greeks).