antigone56

I agree that Maryland is pretty "up there." I'm applying there anyway, though, because I think it's a good fit for me. Also, while I agree that all schools are hard to get into, I'd say that observing my own friends, acquaintances, classmates (the vast majority of whom are the types to go to graduate school), more of them are in 3rd and 4th tier schools than 1st and 2nd tier schools. So while I can appreciate all the talk about how it's a crapshoot and that your chances are no better at school rank # 81 than school rank # 20, from what I can see, in general, your chances are better at mid-tier schools where you fit than top schools where you fit if you consider yourself kind of average (not a "star" applicant, but not a half-bad one either). This doesn't mean there aren't exceptions or that variables we can't know or predict (because we don't have the skinny on the departments or what's going on in them in terms of needs/changes/philosophy) don't come into play that mean unexpected acceptances by top schools and unexpected rejections by really low-ranked ones. But in general, based on where I see people going and assuming they applied to some top schools themselves, they go to mid-tier schools. And I do get that any given school isn't just simply # whatever; they have strengths in some areas and weaknesses in others, and their "rank" could, technically, be five or six different numbers, depending. It remains, still, that if you look at where people are going, more of them go to mid-tier schools than "high rank" ones. I know a person at UT, one at U Chicago, one at OSU, and one at Berkeley. The rest of the people I went to school with and of whom I have any knowledge of where they're doing their PhDs, and I'd estimate that number to be in the 30s and 40s, are at University of Oregon and University of Nevada type of schools. Thus, I think mid-tier schools are a better bet in general. I'm not sure why people can't just acknowledge this. Doing so doesn't somehow undermine your understanding of the complexity and unpredictability of admissions. it is just a generalization that one shouldn't ignore.

I know what you mean by the wide spread of practice tests. I had a pretty wide spread when I was practice-testing, too, and it led me to believe that it's a damn crap shoot (within a certain range for each person). I could score 153 or I could score 163, and the 153 might happen on Monday and the 163 on Tuesday. Anyway, I think most creative writing programs don't care as much about GRE than pure literature programs, but I also think creative writing programs are usually a combo creative writing/lit program wherein they want you to have pretty strong academic writing/thinking skills as well, so possibly they DO care more than one would think. Also, I wouldn't be so sure that you can't score better if you re-take the revised GRE. I think people taking a test for the first time can be caught off guard. For you, your old GRE scores are really strong in Verbal and those scores are probably what you're capable of. You were just thrown off by the new GRE. You could probably take it a second time and score 163 or so or better. The first time I took GRE math, I scored embarrassingly low. I didn't get smarter or more capable with math in the time between the first time and the second and third time I took the GRE: I was just familiar with the test. I scored close to 300 points higher when I took it subsequent times. It was like the first time, I was just thrown for a loop.

I took the test on October 11th and my scores are already up on my account on ETS's website, but I haven't gotten the mailed copy of the scores just yet (I'm assuming that's on its way and that I'll have it in a week or two's time.) I want to start sending the scores to schools (I'm referring to the official sending that you have to pay $25 for). Can that be done as soon as I see the scores up on the website? I'm assuming so, but just want to confirm. Thanks!

Although some people say that schools look unfavorably upon a student taking "just one section" of a test as a re-take, I've done it before, and I know the school accepted that one section re-score along with my old scores on the other sections. I think it's pretty clear to them what you're doing when you do that -- that is, in your case, trying to up your quant score and not worrying about the others (with which you're already satisfied). A school that would say "oh, but he didn't take the other sections at the time he improved his quant to a 152" is kinda strange. I don't doubt others who say that some schools raise an eyebrow at that, but I think it's a dumb thing to do. Sure, you're at a "less test fatigue" advantage when you take only one section, but still, what does it matter? The point is, you were able to score well. Why do they care that you weren't test-fatigued enough at the time you did it?

Also, I recently looked at U. of Oregon's English site (I think they would be considered third-tier), and it said that their minimum is 153 but that most of their admits have higher scores than that. I think them stating that minimum, though, says that they will look at the materials of 153; the 153 won't immediately be cut.

Oh, and about funding. Who knows. I've heard different things. I mean, at some schools, being admitted means getting funded. So I don't think it matters what your GRE score is; if you get in, you're funded. I've also heard breaking 1200 (308 on the new scale) means you'll clear the funding bar. Um, I really don't know.

All three of your scores are close to mine, and I think you and I have almost no chance at the very top schools. With a "good everything else" plus some luck and a good fit, maybe at some second-tier schools that don't immediately eliminate us without looking at our materials. I think third and fourth-tier schools are where you would have the best chance, though. A 156 on Verbal is acceptable to, for instance, my own M.A. and B.A. school, which is in the low 90s on the rankings list. I talked to one of the professors recently who said that high 60th and 70th percentiles are acceptable to them (I'm sure he means in combination with a decent GPA, good writing sample, good letters, etc.) Fortunately for me, I'm not really aiming all that high. I would be happy to go to a school at least equal to my B.A. and M.A. school, and since I would get in there, according to one of my professors, I assume I'd have a chance at schools of equal(ish) caliber, and probably even a little higher. Just not Harvard or Berkeley. That being said, apply to at least a couple top schools that you're interested in just in case. If you were at 153 Verbal, I'd say forget about the top schools, but I think 156 is high enough for the reach-application, assuming you feel pretty confident about your writing sample, etc.

When I did my M.A., I taught two classes (as full instructor, not just assisting a professor) for the school, and two more on top of that for the local community college. I also tutored three hours a week. I wouldn't recommend working so much; I got less out of my M.A. than I could have because I was working so much. I know what I described doesn't sound like a lot, but it takes preparation time, reading (what your class is reading, which mostly cannot be the same things you're reading for your own education because you're not on the same level as your students), creating assignments, grading papers, entering grades, posting things to the class's web shell, meeting with students who need help, and answering their emails, to deliver a course even just minimally well. I felt like I spent more time being a teacher than a student. I have different plans for if/when I do a Ph.D. Work, yes, but in a different way. I also hope to wind up in a city and living situation where there's less commuting back and forth, which was a big chunk of my time, too. Honestly, I feel like I could be a star -- or closer to a star than what I ever have been -- if I could just be a student.

I'd had the same question. I've started applications already but so far haven't paid any fees. Ultimately, I want to spread the expense out between October, November, and December income, but won't do submits until November and December Because I have some money now (my October money), I'm actually having my boyfriend hold $300 for me so that I don't spend it, and just get it from him (and put back in my bank account) when I'm ready to submit in November and December.

My scores showed up on my account very fast. I took the test last week on Friday (October 11th) and just checked today and the score is there. So...8 days. I believe I checked two days ago and the scores weren't there, so 7-8 days for me. My writing score was good, thank god, because although I usually do get a good writing score (and it's my strength, for sure), for some reason this time, I had doubts because I got what I thought was kind of a tricky topic and was writing some crazy stuff in response. I think my sentence structure and style were good, but the content of what I was saying was kinda crazy. Guess they're looking a bit more at the former.

What kind of testing center lets its employees spray tables while test-takers are testing? Jeez, at the place where I tested, it was the epitome of respectful. They even had these heavy-duty earmuffs you could put on to block out all outside noises. I had them on for about 1/2 of the test. Anyway, sorry to hear about you being unhappy with your scores. If you're applying only to Master's programs, though, your scores might be quite acceptable. If it's both PhD and Master's, the scores might be only "okay" for PhD programs. I guess it depends on where you want to go.

I'm applying to 12. I feel comfortable with that number. As recently as five days ago, I thought about reducing it to 8 or 9, because of expense, but my boyfriend said he'd contribute $500 to my efforts (and another friend of mine is contributing $200) and that I should keep it at 12. He wants me to get in. Not that 12 means I will get in, but you know, one feels like one has a better chance if one applies to a bunch. A few weeks ago, for whatever reason, I was having these thoughts of getting into 4 or 5 programs. But now I'm really feeling the competition/heat, and thus thinking.....just one. Give me just one. P.S. I'm really lucky to have the boyfriend and the friend (who makes 80K per year) helping me financially. They're really on my side. If it weren't for them, I'd only be applying to about 6.

I can relate to what you're saying. I also have an M.A. in my field already (graduated in 2011). I have taken the GRE a total of three times since early 2008. My Verbal score in 2008 was 154. That was good enough for the M.A. program I got into (I had a strong writing sample and SOP, plus my M.A. school, which is the same as my B.A. school, is far from elite). I re-took the GRE last year in July, thinking I might apply to PhD programs or a second and different M.A. program in a different field (none of which I ultimately applied to), and scored a 155 on Verbal. Then, a few days ago, I took the GRE again and got a 157 Verbal. So...154 in 2008. 155 in 2012. 157 in 2013. My vocabulary is more than respectable for someone with a Master's degree and someone who cares about words, language, and literacy. But my brain just doesn't work well -- at least not in the time frame one is given for the GRE -- for the reading comprehension questions. I've tried a lot of different tricks and approaches, and still my score (over five years) went only from 154 to 157. (I have practice-tested higher, mind you, but what does that matter when my actual test scores are right there in the 150s, regardless of what practice tests score me?) I'm glad, at least, that my last GRE effort was on the high side of the 150s. And I'm just gonna go with it, even if it will be a weak link in my PhD applications. But I am "done" when it comes to the GRE, at least for now. I don't mind taking that test once a year. For instance, if I don't get into a PhD program this year and want to re-apply next year, I would consider laying down $185 *next year* for another go at it. I just can't bring myself to lay down $185 in back to back months or multiple times in a year. THAT, to me, feels like ETS (and the GRE in general) is just totally scamming me and/or pissing me off. Fortunately for me, with my Verbal GRE being what it is (mind you, my writing score is high (5), although I know that matters less), I'm not aiming for top schools. I'm really not ambitious about where I go (I'd as soon go to a #87 school as I would a #5 school). I just want to be around people who would support me in the things I want to do, and help me develop academically, and I think that can be achieved in the vast majority of schools. Of course, I would go to #5 over #87 if I thought I'd like it better and I had the option, because I know how the world works and I'm not completely immune to the concept of prestige. But if I only got into a # 87 school, I would be thrilled. The only reason I was bucking for a higher GRE score is that I think all schools are competitive, and I think even at "lower ranked" schools, I need as strong a GRE score as I can get. But....I'm resigned to my score not going much higher.

Thanks for the answers. I started three applications last night, and all allowed for non-final saves and submits.

I don't think Art History will care much about your Quant score. I think 151 is fine.

Is that do-able? I already have strong drafts of both the SOP and Writing Sample ready, but I wouldn't say they're "finished." I want to start applications (meaning the mundane parts of the application, the stuff that's already set in stone, like where I used to go to school, my GPA, my address, my phone #...etc.) When you start an online application, can you get that mundane stuff out of the way and add your Writing Sample and SOP closer to Dec/Jan deadlines, or does one have to wait to start the application until one is ready to upload those things? For some reason, I've assumed all along that applications can be started and gotten back into any time up until some "final submit" point, but that "non-final" submits could take place before then. Yes? Or No? I actually wanted to start one application tonight, (but not with the writing sample and SOP -- just filling in my regular info). Can one do that?

That's a really good point. I've had that thought before, myself, about what schools' websites say about GRE scores. It is like they're stating their preference, but with full knowledge that reality sometimes presents them with a very viable candidate who doesn't meet their preference at all, but they still want that person. I can't say how many jobs I used to get in which I did not have the experience they said they wanted. And when they called me for an interview, I was thinking...what? But I was glad they called. That said, sometimes they (schools/employers) really do stick with their stated standards. But I'd put it, in general, at 50-50, which aren't bad odds....

So I took the GRE today and got the following: 157 Verbal / 152 Quantitative I'm really stupid when it comes to the GRE. Seriously! Writing unknown for now, but I usually get a 5 on it (got a 5 in 2008 and again in 2012) My practice tests (nine of them) ranged between 153 and 162 (Verbal, that is; I didn't do Math practice tests at all because I'm an English person). I felt, though, even as I took the practice tests, that "the real me" was 157/158/159. So the score I got today is, I guess, pretty reflective of the real me. I guess I can't complain. But suffice it to say that a 160 would have been much better for me. Suffice it to say that 157 isn't that great for what I'm applying for, but I'm going to apply anyway and hope that my other application materials are strong enough to overcome the miserable mediocrity that is my GRE Verbal score. I refuse to take the test again. For one, I really don't think I can score higher. Sure, on a practice test on a good day, I can score higher. But it seems to be the case that any time I pay $185 and have a test on a set day that counts, I am doomed not to do as well as I did on my highest practice test. Secondly, I just can't give any more money. And I won't. On the upside, my total score on the old scale is 1220. And I've heard the following (quoted from another message board): "Additionally, GRE scores are pretty much the last thing most adcoms look at. The general sense is as long as you're at/over 1200 on the old scale, it doesn't matter." In that sense, I feel like I at least cracked 1200. Yet I wonder: Do adcoms really think that way, and do they actually calculate in their minds which scores are over 1200 on the old scale or not? I hate the GRE. The people who are good at it, I envy you.

Hi, just confirming with you all: I don't need to bring the GRE codes for the schools to the test, right? There's a drop down menu where you can search the schools you want and just pick them, correct? (taking it on Friday 10/11)

I support your giving it one more shot. I myself am giving it another shot (I took it last year in July, didn't apply anywhere in the fall ultimately, but not because of the GRE score). Gonna try it again this year (on Friday). If it improves, wonderful. If not, I think I'm done trying. I'd still apply but just with the mediocre scores. You're in a slightly more pressured position than I am, though, as I'm not targeting the top schools, at least not mostly. I'm applying across the full spectrum in terms of "ranking." I still feel pressure, though. Just a few more days before I know! Thanks for the wish of good luck. To you too.

I'm in a similar position as you. I'm applying to PhD programs in English and my Verbal is pretty much at 158. I've actually practice-tested as high as 163, but it has not been consistent, and most of the time my score is at 157/158/159 or so. I think your score (and my score) is okay as long as you're not mostly targeting Harvard, U of Chicago, Berkeley, and the like. My advisor knows my GRE score, and I told her, "assuming it doesn't budge from about 78% percentile, where do you think I should apply?" She named middle-rank schools mostly. I'm re-taking the GRE on Friday (10/11) and I have a strong feeling my score will not budge. I'll find out soon enough. Unless you think you can score a lot better, I don't see any point in re-taking. Just work on the rest of your application and be hopeful and confident.

Last year when I took it, I just had my test admissions ticket, my driver's license, and that's pretty much it. Don't bother bringing gum because they take that away from you. Even if you "dress in layers" (to ensure comfort no matter what the temperature of the room), they won't let you take a jacket off while testing. It's pretty stupid. I know cheating happens sometimes (I mean, I guess), but for the vast majority of people who don't cheat or have any "tricks up their sleeve," the testing center paranoia is so annoying.

Yeah, I took it last year and didn't "bomb" it (although I guess that depends on what you mean by "bomb" anyway), but I didn't score any better than I did four years prior in 2008, even though I studied. I'm taking it again this year (I never did apply anywhere last year even though I took the test in July), and I expect to do about the same on the GRE, even though I need a 3 to 5 point boost on Verbal if I want a shot at the schools I hope for. But...I took it in 2008 with a certain score, took in in 2012 and got the same thing. I have no reason to think I'm going to do better.

Thanks, AdilB990. It'll be over for me in ten days. Then I can get on with my life.

I'm taking it on October 11th. If I don't do well, I'm going to cry. I think that's as good a plan as any.