carpecc

One more thing, SIPA students tend to be older, accepting less people straight from undergrad. Since I'm older this is good for me. SIPA has 50% international students. I think SAIS is something like 30%. I like SIPA because of this fact.

I was looking at both these programs really closely and know graduates from each. Here's my thoughts. If you love econ, SAIS is more quantitative obsessed, with a ton of econ classes in the core requirements. At SIPA you can choose to be a super econ specialist and take the exact same econ offerings as SAIS, but you can also avoid econ if it's not your thing. SIPA has much more flexible curriculum. About 8 required courses, leaving room for around 12 courses for specializations and electives. The range covered in SIPA is very broad. SAIS has a greater (and better) listing of China and Asia regional courses. Regional courses (at least the China ones) at SIPA are often pulled from other departments and not as integrated with the rest of the SIPA program. So you might be taking classes with history majors as opposed to colleagues with similar interests. I feel SIPA has more offerings for those interested in development work than SAIS. SAIS does not have a (real) campus, and is separate from the rest of JHU. SIPA is right on Columbia's beautiful campus, so a better social mixture with the other students. At SIPA you can take courses from other Columbia schools for credit (some special approval might be needed), SAIS is way far way from the other JHU buildings, but has plenty of offerings on its own that this probably doesn't matter. It's easier to get a job after school in DC than it is in NYC. The salaries and positions of SIPA and SAIS graduates are very similar, with SIPA grads appearing to receive bigger salaries for the private sector based on their published statistics. This probably has to do with the cost of living in NYC, where many SIPA students look for jobs after school. SIPA's a little crowded compared to SAIS. Many of SIPA's courses are taught by practitioners as opposed to academics. However there are issues with profs going MIA and being inaccessible because they are away on business trips. there's some big difference in the curriculum offered at each IR school, look at each closely and pick what's best for your goals. When I visited both in Summer 2009, SIPA '09 graduates were having a tougher time getting good jobs that those at SAIS. This was largely because NYC was really hit in the recession. Since DC has more government organizations present, the recession wasn't nearly as bad. However, SAIS doesn't publish how many students are unemployed/looking for jobs (or at least I couldn't find it). But this seemed consistent with the views of everyone I talked to in DC. I only had close contact with SIPA students, while at SAIS I just talked to the admin office. If the schools are comparable and one gives a ton of money, definitely take it. This field isn't super lucrative. Depending on what you do after school, you might not be making a huge salary, so less debt is definitely better. In general when talking about the IR field, I feel that the name of the school doesn't really matter as much as other fields (law, business, medicine). Harvard Kennedy might be an exception to that. Wolfowitz used to be the head of SAIS. Not sure if this means anything... Just my two cents!

Compost&Recycle, My thoughts are: Name doesn't matter as much in this field as it does in law or business. Look at the salary statistics for various schools, SIPA and SAIS grads are making about the same as American and GW grads. What do you want to do after school? If you are going into policy, you might not be looking at a spectacular salary out of school, in which case the less debt is the better. This will give you more flexibility in picking jobs, and less stress from paying off loans. Unless there's something about Stanford's program you really like, I'd go to Georgetown or one of the other schools with a dedicated International affairs program (and a nice scholarship). This will put you with more people in your field and a more specialized program. Your other choices are all very high regarded in the field. Look closely at the curriculum for each school, as the requirements and classes offered are quite different from Stanford, Fletcher, to SAIS to Georgetown. This isn't like an MBA where they all offer basically the same thing. One will probably suit you better than others. In regards to Stanford, a small program could be a strength as opposed to a weakness. I think it's better to have a really strong small network then a big network of strangers. Besides, you'll be on campus and taking classes with people all across Stanford, you won't be limited to just being friends with the people in your program. Plus more prof guidance. I'm willing to bet there's enough events and core classes to bring you guys together, that community won't be a concern. Make an excel sheet and calculate how much the loans will cut into your expected salary after school, and then 5 or 10 years from now. It might be more or less than you think. fo0odlover28 In defense of SIPA: I'm pretty impressed by their program and it suits my interest (environment and poverty reduction) very well. There's some negative stuff on this board about SIPA, but if you look closely it's all from people who have never attended there. Based on my visit, research and contact with graduates, the program is quite big and a little too crowded, but has a whole lot to offer. The opinions of grads I know ranges from lukewarm (one who graduated after the financial crisis, NYC job market was hit bad) to ecstatically enthusiastic. They say the accessibility of professors is mixed, with some being MIA while some being very easy to get to know. One of the draws of SIPA for me is that classes are taught more by actual practitioners and less by academics. I think one of the biggest differences with SIPA is how much flexibility there is in the program. There's about 8 semesters worth of required classes, and assuming you take 4-5 classes a term, that leaves 12 classes available for specializations, which cover a very wide range of issues. This is a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it. In my opinion SIPA covers careers in development better than it does policy or business. After my acceptance in '10 I knew I wouldn't be able to attend fall 2010. I thought about reapplying to other programs and taking the econ courses that kept me from acceptance at SAIS. But I opted to defer since, even if I reapplied (ugh) and was choosing between Fletcher, SAIS and SIPA, I'd still choose SIPA in the end (unless there was some wicked funding from another school). But that's just me, these programs are all so different.

Sunnyside, You've got a great deal on your hands. I think Harvard has more prestige but whether or not the program is for you depends on your goals. I'd consider the following: 1. Closely examine the curriculum at Harvard and SAIS. Will Harvard offer more of you what you need then SAIS will? Will it give you the skills you need? If SAIS can give you what you need, then I'd go on and go. 2. Money. You have a good scholarship at SAIS and this will let you be more flexible in what you do after school. If you get into Harvard with no money, would it be worth the extra cost? In other words, would it be worth it to pay an extra 40k to put off grad school for a year and go to Harvard? This is especially important if you do not have the money and want to go to govt or NGO work after school. WWS of course, would be ideal, but remember that program is best if you like to go to government. 3. Do you have a good job now, or will you need the grad degree to do what you want? What's the opportunity cost of putting off school? If you're already doing something interesting/exciting/lucrative, then maybe you can afford to wait an extra year and reapply to Harvard. If you don't have something lined up right now, I'd think hard about turning down SAIS. 4. I don't know about Princeton, but harvard is very quantitative and requires multivariate calculus to apply. Can you meet this requirement? That's my two cents!

How much more debt would you get for going to SIPA? What do you want to do after school? The programs are quite different and I prefer SIPA over GW (interested in poverty alleviation and environmental issues), but GW is no slouch. One thing to look at might be the course offerings, see which one has more electives that would help you or interest you. Remember, especially if you go to Govt or NGO work, you're not going to be making a lot of money after school. An exercise would be to fill out a spread sheet, then measure how much you would be making and owe in debt right after school, five years after school and ten years after school. So assuming SIPA gets you a higher paying job, if GW is cutting you a good deal then you'll be surprised how much more money you'll have in the bank by going to GW and how long a higher salary from SIPA (presumably, might not even) takes to pay off that debt. Less debt also means more flexibility in picking your jobs. But GW is no slouch and DC is great. For example I got into SIPA but not into GW. The GW grad I know has done very well (one is not a big enough sample though). If you look at their job outlook after school, the results are very similar unless you want to go in the private sector, where SIPA has a definite edge. SIPA students in the private sector make 10k more than their counterparts at GW based on the reports I read issued by the schools.

Yea, you're fine for the top school. Those great internships will probably compensate for applying straight from undergrad. I think the only chink in the armor is international experience and a foreign language. Did you study abroad and can you speak a foreign language?

So Sunset Rodeo, I gotta ask: did you reinstate your scores?

According to that site: SAIS: 38% Kennedy: 30% SIPA: 39% Fletcher: 40% This seems consistent with the research I've done, but I've seen some slightly different numbers thrown around. I imagine the statistics change from year to year.

I'd say you have a great shot. You've got good grades, a good GRE score and seem to have clear career goals. So it's worth a shot, they take plenty of students straight from undergrad. They're still the minority, but remember these programs aren't as competitive as some fields. I'd say you're in good shape for SAIS at least.

Relax! Relax! I think you're over thinking these things. First, you current score isn't bad. The verbal isn't great, but it isn't horrible. I'm will to bet that your verbal score on your most recent test is better. Also you're making a lot of assumptions, you assume you got those questions wrong, you assume that you weren't able to bring your score back up in the later part of the test. The truth is you really don't know for sure. It was harder than you anticipated? That's a good thing: probably means you were scoring way high and they threw on the tough questions. Second, the GRE is only part of the application. You've got a great GPA, good work experience and other things going for you. The GRE is only part. Third, you can go ahead and register now for the Nov GRE, you can always cancel your registration. Since your first set of scores is from two years ago, I don't think two more now would be that bad. The other parts of the app you should go ahead and begin preparing right now, cuz that stuff takes time. Besides, you only need to study for the verbal part, which is just memorizing vocab words. Just my thoughts.

I'd say definitely reinstate the scores, they're probably ok. Unless something really serious happened, like illness or complete lack of sleep or something, there's no reason to cancel them. They're probably better than you think. I took the test and considered cancelling the scores, thinking I did really poorly on the math and medium on the verbal. Turns out my math score was better than any practice test, and my verbal score was way worse than expected. But it was still in an OK range, and I got into my target school. Reinstate it, if it really is far off the mark, you have time to retake it. If it's fine, then you don't have to worry about the GRE at all and you can concentrate on other things.

What was the application process like for you? (i.e. how long did it take you? what kind of road-bumps did you run into?) I spent about half a year on the application process during a time in between jobs. Give yourself as much time as possible, you can always benefit by starting early. Was there anything that surprised you about the process? I was surprised at how flexible admissions is, and how even some of the best programs will accept students with below average GPAs if they can make up for it in other parts of the app. I was also surprised how much a good GRE score relies on studying. Anything would have done differently? I would've written a completely different SOP for each program, or at least for some of the programs, instead of using a modified single draft for all schools. The SOP questions and word limits are quite different from school to school, some asking "What makes you qualified to study here?" and other asking "Why do you want to be at our school and what will you do with the degree?." I also would've taken some econ courses over the summer so I could include these in my app. I really wish I'd got a better nights sleep before the GRE. What advice can you give regarding SOPs, GREs, gaining work experience, etc? That SOP can take a long time, so be prepared to draft and redraft and have time to step away from it. These things are easier for some people than others. For me it was a really important part of my app, so I spent a long time on it. Same with GRE's, study and take as many practice tests as you can, use a book or two, and focus in on your week points. You can always benefit by spending more time studying. Also get a lot of sleep before the test and take it early enough so you can retake if necessary. My work experience and work recommendations were deciding factors in my app, so work hard to get good jobs and take advantage of any opportunities you can get, they might decide your career.

beaverish, I think those scores are fine, all that you'd be making are small improvements. Concentrate on making an impactful dissertation and use that extra time for the application.

Your academic and work credentials look fine, you should be competitive for a lot of those programs. The main thing I would try to fix is that AWA score, 4.5 is not low, but might raise some eyebrows. If you retake and do a little more preparation for this section, you should be able to get a 5 or 6. Then again a lot of admissions don't put a high priority on this. Your verbal and quant are fine. Otherwise just concentrate on good essays, those can take a lot of work.

I'd say with those grades, you experience and awards, you definitely have a chance. You'll definitely need to raise your AWA score on the GRE though. They want a certain type of essay, download the samples from the website along with the commentary they provide, this is helpful. What was your approach to the essay? Also it looks like you've only been out of school one year? This isn't a whole lot, and might be too little for SIPA, but msybr with your other stats it won be a big deal. Just some thoughts!

I'll be starting my Masters at 33 and feel fine about it. While on the one hand, I don't won't to be the oldest guy in the class, on the other hand I'm attending grad school at a perfect time where I want to supplement some of my work experience with classroom stuff. Plus it's a fantastic qualification. Older people who are attending grad school, then returning to the career that they left, are able to demand better compensation and better positions. I think it's tougher if you're making the career switch. Also all those years of work experience makes you a more competitive candidate. I know my application benefited from being far away from my undergrad grades with some solid experience under my belt.

Hey, I think you're not too shabby. Your verbal score is not too bad, just at the lower end of the range and should be easy to pull up. Remember that the MIA programs are not as competitive and use different criteria then Law and MBA. I'd say you've got pretty good chances at getting into at least a couple of programs but you'll need to work hard to overcome those grades. This means a killer GRE score and great essays. Can you speak a foreign language? Ever live abroad? Those things and your work experience really help. And your work experience looks pretty interesting, especially for your field, so that's a big plus. Do what I did and visit the schools. Ask them what they look for in a student and what you would need to do to get in. I never thought myself competitive for Columbia, but I did informational interviews, got encouraging feedback, applied and got in.

Yea, I got into Columbia, Denver and waitlisted at SAIS with only a 2.9 gpa. You can overcome grade deficiencies with work experience or GRE scores. Just make sure the other aspects of your app are strong. You can also swing some part time econ classes and do real well, just to prove that you can handle the graduate curriculum. I'd follow the advice on this forum and call/visit the admissions. Tell them who you are, your experience, email them your CV before the call if you can. Ask them what it would take to get into their program. That's what I did and I was encouraged with the results.

Kawa, can you speak a foreign language proficiently? If so then you have good chances. If not, then this might be an area you want to develop further leading up to the application.

Bump! Previous Schools (Name, type, or tier): Top 25 US liberal arts college Previous Degrees and GPA's: Psych, 2.9 GRE Scores (Verbal/Quantitative/Analytical Writing): 590, 730, 5.5 (higher quant and lower verbal then expected. See my other posts for my GRE story) Previous Work Experience (Years, Type): 2 year teaching ESL in china, four years development work in China. Administrative positions in major NGOs, management position in smaller NGO. currently management position doing corporate sustainability work. Math/Econ Background: College calc, stats, micro econ Foreign Language Background: Over eight years in China. Spent two years studying full time in country. Would have trouble getting through literature, but can speak, read and write Chinese (Mandarin) very proficiently Intended Field of Study in Grad School: Undecided, probably economics and environmental issues. Long Term Professional Goals: Undecided between social and environmental jobs. Something impactful, definitely not private. probably non profit or multi lateral org. Maybe govt. Whatever job has the most opportunity for having the biggest positive impactful or giving me the tools to get there. Schools Applied to & Results: GW (rejected), American SIS (rejected), Denver Korbel (accepted), SAIS (waitlisted), SIPA (accepted). Zero funding for all Ultimate Decision & Why: deferred SIPA till '11. It was a tossup between SIPA and SAIS, plus I got rejected from two of my other choices. SIPA has the wide range of courses available to make a great specialization, I love NYC, and the Columbia name is awesome. Now I just need to use that time deferring to decide exactly how I want to specialize. Feel free to add any more info that you feel would paint a better picture of your applicant profile. You can improve your GRE score a lot through some good studying, you can also destroy it if you don't get enough sleep before the test. The SOP can take a lot of time and different schools ask different questions, length etc. Be prepared to write a different essay for each school and start early enough to have some time to sit back and come back to them after a rest. Also, if you don't think you're competitive, you'll never know until you ask. If you don't have the qualifications now, you might be able to make up for it by taking some risks with your career, traveling abroad, having some adventures and seeking high and low for those opportunities to build yourself. I only got the jobs I have by not being afraid to move around, sacrifice pay for building skills, being tenacious, and making some good personal relationships. Some of us are more suited to bringing achievement in the work world then the academic one. Don't be afraid to leave your comfort zone. If you don't ask they can't say "no."

I'd say, unless you're borderline, it's good chance you'll get back in if you reapply. Based on the limited research I've done, you can spend a lot of time during that year looking for some external sources of funding. 007 is right about whether it's worth it or not. Check out some of the other programs, and see what they give you. Especially if you're going to the non profit field, then avoid that debt so you can save more to buy a house etc. If you have less debt, then you can take the jobs you want, and not have to worry about paying those loans and examining each job for the paycheck. SAIS is great, but you can get a great education at a lot of lesser programs then SAIS. Don't get TOO carried away with the school envy. If you go for a smaller name, I don't think you'll be too jealous of you SAIS colleagues when you see how much of their paycheck goes back to JHU. For the private sector then the name matters more, and you'll be making more cash, so it won't be as big deal.

Good choice 007, you'll be happier to have that MA out of the way. And it's free! Congratulations.

I agree that your work experience will mean a lot. From the MA graduates I've talked to, the problem with employment is not having work experience in the sector of choice. You already have that: UN is top experience to have. As for funding, you never know, you might get more than you expect. Apply to a range of schools. You might not get big money at your top three, but, especially if you have the grades, you can get good funding from at least one of the 5-7 programs you apply to. All of the top 20 programs in your field will offer a great education, and in the end it will be you armed with your CV and willpower that will bring you the sweet job. Plenty of people go to non Ivy programs and end up fine, I personally know a few from less prestigious schools that have nonprofit jobs to die for. But they have the jobs cuz they're awesome, not because of their school. A name is great, but the orgs and businesses that count still recognize talent when they see it. Regardless, start preparing your app next fall and see how it turns out, you can always turn it down then resubmit the next year. You might get fully funded to WWS, but you won't know until you ask.

Check out Duke's program. Yale has a great environmental management program as well.

SIS is definitely in the same league. How much is there tuition? Don't get too caught up in ranking envy, its pretty subjective in this field. SIS has a great reputation and employers will look highly on it. If you can study what you want at SIS and its significantly cheaper than SIPA you should go there.