carpecc

Hey everybody. I'm a graduate of Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs and had a great experience. Not all of my classmates did though and some were even wasting their money by attending this program. I want to share some of the mistakes that I think people make when planning their public policy grad school experience. Mistake #1: Going in without a plan. At SIPA there were smart students with a plan, smart students without a plan, and everyone else. Taking away one or two years of your life to invest in education unplanned is silly. In some cases the unplanned were able to course correct in the last semester and get what they needed, in other cases they were totally unexpected for the education they were getting and (in the least) not getting the most out of their time at SIPA or (worst) wasting two years of their life and taking on a lot of debt. Your planning should begin in general terms when you start the application process. What types of jobs would you like to learn after school? What kind of skills do you need to learn? What part of the world do you want to live in? More academic or practical? These questions will guide which schools are appropriate for you. Maybe you don't know what type of job you want after school, in which case the plan should be to take the variety of classes and internships that will help you figure this out. A minority of students pick classes seemingly on a whim, selecting whatever sounds interesting without reviewing the evaluations, thinking about what they need in the long term or getting help from professors. This is a big mistake as they miss on the classes that were good and they really needed. Once in the program plan your curriculum, the whole two years, before you step foot on campus. The pre registration process for the next semester creeps up on you and some course that you will want to take in the second semester/year may have prereqs in the first semester/year. Others may have special application requirements. Time is limited, you can't take everything and you'll want to avoid the dud classes. Of course you will learn a lot about new classes from students once you arrive (getting advice from second year MA students should be part of the plan). I read all of the course listings before I arrived on campus twice, and made a spreadsheet of possible course to take each semester for my two year program. This list changed a lot, but I didn't feel like I got any dud classes or missed out on the goals I wanted to accomplish. Also plan the finances and the job search. Are there fellowships available for good grades? Then don't overload on classes the first semester/year so you can be competitive for them. Those with a plan figure out what they need to do to get the internships and jobs they want. Those without a plan usually don't prioritize the job search and end up unemployed for 6 months or sometimes even a year after graduation. Mistake #2: Not prioritizing the job search. This is what you are taking the professional program for, to get a job. Not to write a thesis, not to get caught up in student groups, not to go to happy hours. You can do all those things, but make sure you keep your eye on the ball and spend time on the job search from the first month of school. The job search starts by getting acquainted with the recruitment process for your select industries and making time to attend the on campus information sessions and any trainings that you need (such as case interviews) that can help you get there. At SIPA there was info and reviews on where people had done internships previously, I began viewing these in my first semester. Even if you already know what you want to do, there's great opportunities to get exposed to new companies which you may not have known existed. The job search continues in how you select your classes. What classes do people in said industry need? Which professors are great to work with? What classes can teach you the skills you need? Some application time cycles start early, very early. Many don't have jobs around April or May shouldn't be cause for panic as public sector jobs sometimes don't advertise until right when they need them. However the prepared student already has their birds in place and networked across their sector. At the least, you want to be eyeing the job/internship listings once a week so when that dream job or internship comes up, you are ready to press apply. Your CV is up to date right? As an example: one of my classmates applied to one internship in the fall that was for the next summer, got it, then applied back to the company for an excellent job after school and got it. Two applications and he had it all sorted out. He had is eye on the ball. On the other hand I knew a few who didn't start applying for jobs for April or May, they weren't even looking, but still had time to complain about the Office of Career Services. Career Services cannot apply for you. You have to do it yourself. Mistake #3: Thinking the MIA/MPA is next best thing to an MBA. This was true at Columbia: some students expected the recruitment level and job prospects of the MBA. An MPA/MIA is not the same as an MBA and most students would be better getting a second tier MBA than spending a chunk of change on public policy program. All of the differences are apparent to the well researched: job outcomes, class offerings and professors. It's all on the web. About 90% of MBAs go to the private sector, at SIPA 1/3 go private 1/3 go government and 1/3 go nonprofit. Those are three very different sectors with very different recruitment and job search strategies, as a result, there are just not as much resources or recruitment at public policy schools for the private sector. Some might say: "Sure some MBA professors teach at SIPA, sure they have some of the same course offerings, hey, I can even take some classes at the MBA school and attend their events! So it's safe to say I'm at least partially getting a Columbia MBA right?" Well, yes you're getting some similar technical training but it's far from passing it off as an MBA. The MBA is a commodity, the private sector know what it is and there is more homogeny among MBA graduates than public policy grads. The most important part of an MBA is getting in: they have much lower acceptance rates for the same schools (Columbia SIPA >30% vs Columbia MBA <10%) so it's a more competitive badge of honor. Also the network you get out of it makes you a more valuable employee to the private sector: your classmates are future clients, partners and service providers that can directly benefit the performance of your business which in turn affects your salary and bonus. I don't get a bonus if my classmate in the foreign service helps my NGO get some funding, so I don't get as much bang for my buck financially speaking. My friends who have gone to tier 2 and even tier 3 MBAs have paid off in spades, mostly because they paid less. This is important if you underestimate the cost. Mistake #4: Underestimating the cost. It can cost a lot, or it can be for free. Looking at the employment outcomes for the top ten schools the salary range does not vary too much from school to school. This means if you get a free ride to a state school and no funds from ivy league, the benefit of going ivy might be marginal and lead to suffering debt. Some classmates paid in full with the plan to go to the nonprofit sector after school. I'm not sure if that's worth it, but then again there are several intangible and tangible benefits to a degree from a top school that can't be measured in the first job after graduation. Is there room for second year financial aid? What does it take to get it? Those are some of the questions to ask. ------------------------ So those are my two cents, any other mistakes people make?

For some schools this is a dealbreaker. Of course it depends on the rest of your app: grades, test scores, recs, work experience. The econ is hard at the competitive schools. If they think you're ability to handle the intro econ classes is a liability to your success, you might get excluded. It's not as important where you get these classes as if or if not you get these classes.

Take it on line or wherever is convenient. As several admin told me: we don't care where you take it, just that you *have* taken it. To look at it another way, some schools will exclude you automatically if you do not.

Most MIA and MPA programs have employment outcomes with employment by location. Many go to DC, but plenty go other places. I'm moving to Myanmar for example.

Hey, I did the MIA with the env concentration. If you absolutely know you want to do env works than the MPA-ESP is great. It is a very different curriculum than the MPA and MIA and includes many env science classes that are unavailable to you if you are just an MPA with the env concentration. SIPA has robust energy classes but only a few worthwhile env one, and mostly on the policy side of things, Also an MPA is one yearand has a very flexible curriculum, giving you time to intern in between your first and second year or during the year. The ESP program is seperate, and is a pretty strict curriculum, very intense. If I were you I would apply to the ESP, or apply to both. You will not be able to take the ESP classes if you are just MPA. The ESP students I met were very smart, it is a good group.

Thanks smashie! Did you get some good news to? Yea I'm not sure either. On the one hand, since they say congrats and tell us about the orientation, I'm inclined to think that they want to place all the candidates at this point. I sure hope so! Likely in this stage it's more organic as they negotiate with the respective governments, which could mean they pick some and not others depending on how excited those governments are to have some foreigners in their offices. I'm tempted to ask, but hey, might as well wait and see how things unfold over the next few weeks.

Just heard today that I've made it past the Interview to the final stage, which is placement in the host government. I'm assuming that they only accept a number of applicants that they definitely have funding for, as opposed to having more than enough applicants and another round of cuts. Does anyone know if this is the case?

If you got their name you might be able to track them down on linkedin or their department website. I wouldn't stress about it though.

Congrats! Malawi would be cool. I'm interviewing for Burma/Myanmar.

Fulbright PP update: Found out today that I got to the interview stage.

I think last year there were 191 applicants and 19 fellows.

I applied to Burma as well, seems to be a popular country. Heard back from the committee that I've made it to the next round, but will have to be reviewed by the embassy before they tell me if I get the interview.

I really know little about the security field, but the best advice would be with alumni from the programs you're looking at and colleagues in the field. Most people here are looking for admissions advice, not a lot of graduates offering advice.. With that aside, I'd say go for a program where the name of the degree is not security but IR or MA with a security specialization. Did you closely at the classes and curriculum requirements? At SAIS and SIPA for example your certificate is an MA in International Relations/Affairs. It doesn't even say your specialization, so you wouldn't be worse for wear if you wanted to keep options open. The key is that the degree offers some flexibility and functional classes (ex. policy making, accounting, budgeting, management, maybe regional classes) that can be applied to a wide range of careers. SIPA, SAIS and Fletcher are like this, I'm sure others as well.

At SIPA you have access to Columbia econ and stats departments and take classes outside of SIPA for credit. Plenty of my classmates majored in or have an MA in econ, engineering or finance (though non I know in stats). You'd be able to take a placement test to place out of the SIPA stats courses and go straight to the more advance econ modeling courses. While most classes won't require your current level of stats, you can utilize your background in the projects and research, some of which are very flexible. So for example a GIS specialist classmate utilized his GIS skills to great effect in the first year politics of policy making course to visualize a system of indicators his group created. It was a hit. The SIPA courses are going to be generally more qualitative, but probably can give you the knowledge you need to apply your stats in the public sector, plus you can take advantage of Columbia's great stats department. Personally I think a PhD is a little much (5+ years). Also you'll be able to make a living, but don't expect USD 200-300k/yr unless you move back into finance. There are plenty of public sector consultants. Booz Allen, Chemonics, MSI and DAI are a few. If you're focused specifically on policy, then I've also heard good things about Maryland and Duke. I know that they focus heavy on the policy side, but don't know much beyond that.

Encouragement: WWS admitted 14% (MA and PhD combined I think) in 2006 http://www.princeton.edu/pr/facts/profile/06/13.htm

Actually I think WWS is something like 15% acceptance and Harvard is 15-35 varying by year based on what I've read. I'm not going to bother to look up anything now. I've known a few people who went to Harvard and they're exceptional, but I've got some colleagues at SIPA that are just as great or even better. I'm not knocking Harvard, I'm just saying globalhopscotch should have a shot. Anyways, globalhopscotch, it sounds like you know what's best for yourself and you seem to have researched the selections well. Indeed being older will increase your chances and the fact that you've made some career decisions that move you closer to development should demonstrate your commitment to the field. Mention in your SOP why you made those changes and how they have reinforced what you do and do not want to do. Also you can probably raise your Math GRE, that's an easy one to lift. But since you're in China, they don't offer another test till May I think. But don't worry, you can get into some great schools that will get you the skills/connections/prestige you want.

I'd just reapply addressing what's changed since you're last app. If I were you I'd also apply to more schools. Fletcher, gtown, sais, sipa...any five that have the stuff you want. Take a look at the profs and classes offered, depending on your goals, they may have the same thing. They at least have a lot of overlap. It's ok to strive for the most 'prestigious', but you end up putting your desired job on hold if you obsess about it. What are your career goals? I guess what it comes down to is: is your current situation so compelling and does it meet your cereer goals well enough that you'd only leave it for those two schools, or would you really like to have more substantial roles in the development sector sooner rather than later? If the answer is the latter, then you might be delaying your chosen career. You could've been graduati this year! Maryland is a big step below Harvard, but Fletcher? I know someone who did a dual degree at both and hated her Harvard semesters. Also did you know that Harvard has a fairly large domestic component? Many students there are not interested in international careers. This time apply to the usual suspects of top tier ir schools. Get a scholarship and flaunt it! In the end it is your talent that will get you the job, the school just gets you in the interview. Look at the job reports for all of them, they are very close, except 80% of wws grads go to the govt sector.

Hmm, in that case HDPFDan, I think the MPA does make a little more sense, but I'm not an admissions adviser. Keep in mind that "international experience" doesn't just mean building homes in rural Bolivia, it can be through your projects and colleagues at your law firm, or some of the research you've done. Also, since you're big on policy, the MPA make more sense since it has a pub policy core to it, the MIA core is more theoretical. The biggest difference between MIA and MPA (in addition to the language requirement) is their core class the first semester. MIA take Conceptual Foundations of International Affairs. This is an introduction to the discourse, theories and key theoretical research in IR and each week features a talk by various IR, polici sci and econ all stars from the Columbia faculty. Last week we had Joseph Stiglitz, two weeks before that we had Jeffrey Sachs. Heavy hitters. But the focus is on key theories, issues and frameworks, not on policy. Not everyone digs the class, but I think it's been outstanding. MPA students take Politics of Policy Making. This focuses on learning to write memos, policies, and how to develop indicators. There's some overlap with the Conc. Found. class, but the angle is quite different. For example they share some of our guest speakers, but the lecture will talk about policy frameworks, not theoretical IR frameworks. This might be more up your ally. The former teaches you how to think analytically about the big IR picture, the latter teaches you how to work in teams to detail policies.

Also I should add that SIPA does offer beginner courses. The far majority of people here though at least have a beginner level of something. For example the beginner Spanish classes were filled almost immediately. The language program here is part of the greater Columbia program.

I disagree, you're JD makes up for your undergrad grades, especially the further away your undergrad degree is. You can probably into one of the good schools. Maybe not Kennedy, but maybe the others. I'd give them a call and ask where you stand with your credentials. You can get into Duke I bet.

I mean, speaking a foreign language will make you a more competitive app. No risk in applying though. Worst is they reject you and you go someplace else or you study a foreign language for a year. THere's plenty of people here that are learning their language as they go and hope to pass the proficiency test before they graduate. Be warned, the language classes take a lot of time.

Jrnels and Meichen, It's definitely a pro-con for either going to straight to school or to the workforce. Whatever you see on this forum, don't be afraid of applying to your top choice if you already know what you want to do. The work experience beforehand will give you some good perspective though. If you do go straight to grad school then once in school go a little lighter on the courses (take 4 classes instead of 5 or 6) and try to intern during the year to make up for the lack of work experience. 3-4 semesters of interning plus a summer could makeup for the lack of fulltime work. There's also some things in a good internship that you can never learn in class. At SIPA we have a couple of folks straight from undergrad and they're mostly outstanding. If you got it and you know it, go ahead and dive in.

Do you mean defer to study a foreign language before entering SIPA? If you defer to spend time studying a foreign language I'd imagine yes, they're pretty reasonable and would see that as a good decision. I can't imagine them deferring the language requirement to study after you finish SIPA though. You can also switch between MPA and MIA (as long as you can meet the min requirements by graduation). Some students enroll in the MIA, realize they don't want to deal with language, so switch to MPA. It's not as simple as flipping a switch, but give the admin a reasonable case and you're fine. Go ahead an apply MIA. If they don't let you defer, in the worse case scenario just switch to MPA.

Your presumption is correct. Just some tiny differences. You can also take both the IR an policy making course if you want. With the diversity of courses and concentrations here you can basically make you're own degree. The language classes are usually 4-5 credits, so a real time sinker, so consider carefully if you want to pursue that course. Although I recommend taking it upon yourself to learn at least a bit of a foreign language if you plan to work in IR.

I agree with LLajax. I'm 90% sure they're very similar, but I don't know much about PhD programs in this field. You should really consider the field that's most important. But from everything I've seen, and assuming that Northeastern's program is great, there's no way double cost for an Ivy league education is worth it. It's 5-7 years of your life. Do you want to pay 700USD of every pay check a month for 7 years or 14? The pay is most likely the same, since you're interest is in academic job either way.