lovethequestions

I can't see how a ThM/STM would be a bad thing in preparing for Ph.D work, so long as the courses you take are directly relevant to NT studies. I would agree that language training is crucially important for biblical studies. Greek and Hebrew are pretty much a prerequisite for advanced coursework, and even if you have a couple of years of them, rapid-reading classes both develop your skills more and familiarize you with more biblical texts. But if it's a year where you take one or two bible classes and then the rest in theology...that won't hurt, but I'm not sure it will help but so much.

If this helps, I know that the CJA faculty are meeting on Wednesday afternoon...

Congratulations!! Enjoy South Bend!

Congrats!!

Hey, congratulations! That's terrific!!

Several weeks after sending out my applications (in which I harp on my writing and editing abilities) I noticed that I had several fairly embarrassing misspellings in my CV. I am also applying to Ph.D programs in a field I didn't know existed until just over a year ago, and in which I have no coursework. At all.

I have to put in a plug for Notre Dame liturgical studies--it's not my area, but from the courses I've taken in it and from what I've heard, the professors are by and large absolutely wonderful (and ecumenical!). I know that I've had a number of non-degree seeking students in classes, but I don't know much about admissions or costs associated with that. For the MTS program, the financial package is very generous (full tuition to all students and a small stipend to most or all); the admissions is supposed to be fairly competitive, but nowhere near what you're looking at for a Ph.D here. And LS typically has the smallest number of students, so you might have an edge compared to other areas.

I think it makes sense to send him an email now, if only because it can be a good thing if schools know you got in somewhere else. You can say something like, "I'm really excited about the offer and very much appreciate your interest in me; I was admitted to a couple of other schools whose programs I'm still investigating, but I wanted you to know that your school is high on my list and I think it would be fantastic to work for you." Non-committal, but flattering--that way worst case scenario, he knows that you appreciate and value him (which is both nice for him to know and might make him remember you down the road); best case scenario, his department has grounds to say to the school, "we have this great person who needs extra convincing to come, so can we rustle up some more money from somewhere?" My understanding is that "extra" fellowships are usually awarded at the university level, and it's precisely this kind of competition that can give your department the grounds to ask for one for you. Just make it clear that the focus of the email is actually telling him that you like him and are grateful, not that you want more money.

First, congratulations! Second, there's a reason the schools have all entered a binding agreement not to require you to make a decision before April 15. It's true that it sucks for them and for the unlucky person at the top of the wait list if there's no time to negotiate with someone else, but you absolutely have the right to take the time to make the right decision. That being said, one option to (hopefully) make everyone happy is to be very aggressive with researching the school in the meantime--talk to or email with all the professors you'd be working with, ask if they have current and/or former students you can talk to, etc. Even if you don't get a chance to actually see the campus, you might well find out something that will help the decision along. But I still think you should not feel guilty about taking your time, if in fact you just can't decide before you visit. You have to be your own advocate. Good luck!

Congrats!! And let me reiterate (one more time)--good luck to the ND interviewees!!

She's in New Testament.

It wasn't me, but one of my friends got in over the weekend. Don't know if she's on grad cafe though.

After posting the above I realized that I totally blurred the distinction between an MTS and ThM degree (and between that and an MAR, and so on). I was trying to speak more generally toward master's programs in religion other than an MDiv, but I actually don't know much about the different kinds of graduate programs in religion (despite being in one).

To add my 2 cents--in terms of stats, I have no idea--I think it depends very much on the program you're applying to. In terms of overlap with an M.Div, it depends very much on what you're studying, as previous posters have indicated. I think the thing to do would be to scout out potential master's and Ph.D programs, looking in particular at the courses they offer each semester (so you'll know whether there will be a significant overlap in required courses, as well as whether there will be enough courses offered that you can avoid taking courses you've already taken), the languages they require and the languages they will teach you, and the kinds of programs and jobs that students from those schools typically go on to (if all that information isn't on the website, I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to ask the departmental secretary/whatever faculty member you get in touch with where you can find it). Most schools also usually offer a general range of GRE scores that they're looking for as well. What do you want an MTS/ThM degree for, though? Do you want to teach high school? Get a Ph.D and teach college? Since you're probably going into debt (or at least sacrificing vital money-making years) to do it, and since there are so many (and yet, somehow, so few) potential applications for an MTS or ThM degree, I think it's always a good idea to have a game plan. If you're planning to apply to Ph.D programs after this, it's just not worth it to get a master's that won't put you exactly where you need to be--not necessarily in terms of prestige, simply in terms of giving you the coursework, languages, and study habits you'll need both to get into Ph.D programs and to succeed once you're there. (Or maybe I'm the only one who is still desperately trying to develop study skills.) If you want to teach high school, or go into parish ministry or some other related job, figure out what kinds of things you'll need to be competitive in those job markets, and look for a program that fits those needs. Yeesh. Now I feel like a Debbie Downer...I guess my student loans are just weighing particularly heavily on me right now as my 20s slip by...

At Notre Dame, it tends to depend somewhat on what area you're in. Within systematics, for example, it's fairly safe to assume that most of the faculty are going to be Catholic, but I can't really speak to how that plays out in class or interactions with them. Within CJA (the area I know best), most of the faculty are practicing Christians of one stripe or another, but, as has been stated about other schools, it's not something that gets talked about in class particularly often. Since Notre Dame is a department of theology, there's an explicit presupposition that religion is a good thing, and that the institution as a whole is a Christian one; and certainly there is ALWAYS a theological discussion or four going on in the lounge. But in the classroom, at least in my experience, no one cares whether you're Christian or not--the focus really is on the quality of the work you're doing and the level of analysis you can bring to the table, and there aren't any "faith-based" boundaries that limit where speculation leads you. If you have a faith background or personal experience that can lead you to contribute something unique to the discussion, that's almost always seen as a positive thing. I was a little nervous coming from a religious studies department for UG into a theology department, particularly as I explicitly consider myself a non-theologian (and yes, I know that can be a contentious statement). But it's been a really positive experience for me overall, and if I sound idealistic, it's because I'm absolutely crazy about the CJA faculty. They run an amazing show here. There are definitely ways to make yourself uncomfortable with religion at Notre Dame, though. If you have even the slightest proselytizing streak in you, whether you're Catholic or atheist or anything in between, I'd say, try very hard to keep it under wraps, or you're likely to piss people off considerably. If you're at all uncomfortable with people publicly airing their religious beliefs or practices--if you'd rather study religion than see it happen, or think the two should be separated in some concrete way--this probably won't be a terribly comfortable place for you. (I tend to lean in this direction, so I don't mean to be snarky.) If you don't like the Catholic church, well, this is a Catholic school, and the overwhelming majority of people really like it that way--though that certainly doesn't mean that you can't criticize the magisterium. If you are Catholic, you should know that the "First Things" people and the "Commonweal" people definitely have strong and conflicting opinions--there are plenty in both camps, but you can expect lively debates, if you're inclined that way. (And if you're not, they will rage around your head.) All of this is a little bit off topic in that it has more to do with students than professors, and much more to do with community life than classroom discussion. But the life of the community does play a huge part in the experience here.

Thanks! Best of luck to all!

Hey--I'm the Harvard person. Sorry, I've been posting results, but not really participating in the forums (purely because I've been having a hard enough time getting my work done this month!)

My understanding is that they typically interview about twice as many people as they accept; that it's a lot of meet-and-greets with the faculty, other candidates, and current Ph.D students; and that the whole thing is pretty relaxed (or, as relaxed as it can be). Virtually all of the faculty that I know here are incredibly nice, and I can't imagine them setting out to deliberately intimidate you. As to the interviews themselves, I'm not sure. I think faculty pick whom to interview based on whom they'd be working with/whom they want to get a sense of.

The language thing cuts both ways--it makes you very marketable in terms of both Ph.D applications and teaching applications. But for every language course you take, that's a theology course you didn't take. My feeling about the matter is that if you don't genuinely like learning and studying languages you won't really be happy either teaching them to high schoolers or in a Ph.D program that strongly emphasizes an ancient language component. I don't know much about the ECS program at ND, other than that its students seem to have a wider variety of interests than you find within other master's concentrations around here. You might also consider the Biblical Studies concentration if you're serious about doing the languages and if your focus is more historical than theological. You'll end up with Greek and Hebrew rather than Latin, but you'll REALLY know the Greek and Hebrew. The thing to remember about the MTS program at ND is that the courses you take are pretty rigorously structured, with a large component of the degree going to "core curriculum" type stuff. That can be good or bad, depending on your attitude/interests. Also: if you're seriously interested in world religions, and particularly if you'd like to focus on their history rather than interfaith discussion, Notre Dame is not a good place to be. It's incredibly strong in the Second Temple, New Testament, History of Christianity (particularly intellectual history), etc., but it's not a religious studies program and wouldn't have the resources to let you begin something like Sanskrit. (That being said, people here are very very good about letting students follow their own interests when it comes to directed readings classes, etc.)