Marcus_Tullius

I agree with you to an extent - certainly a supervisor being full up is a genuine issue, that said, once I checked with prospective supervisors in advance and got confirmation they would be interested, getting the offer was not that hard (Nottingham and Sheffield offered a place within a week). I agree I've met morons doing PhDs at Cambridge also - part of the problem is that department politics play a large role, or so I've been told... I was interested in your assessment of Oxford - being a Cantab myself I've never really been in depth with the Oxford Arch dept, but the fact that Classical Arch has it's own space has always impressed me (and for BA, after Sheffield I'd put Ox #2 in the UK - they have Bendall and Lemos, who are both great, although they lost Galanakis (also awesome - he supervised my master's) to Cambridge. London for BA is falling away I'd say - they have Whitelaw, of course, but Broodbank is moving to Cambridge....But the converse of this is that at Cambridge Archaeology proper and Classical Archaeology have a huge divide and the break between near eastern, classicals, and even people working on classical stuff in the archaeology dept is huge,...

Hey, so I'm a Brit and very familiar with the process over here. So some general points then I'll comment on the departments you're interested in: 1. The system is the reverse of the US - if you are not an idiot you will almost certainly get an offer. I got offers from Oxford, Cambridge, Nottingham, Sheffield this year, You will get offers, even for places like UCL and Oxbridge without too much effort. 2. The converse is that FUNDING is immensely difficult. I got no funding at any of the above places, in fact at two of them Classical Archaeology was not awarded funding this year at all. 3. You only need two letters of recommendation, apart from at Oxford where you need three. 4. Your research Proposal is important. If you are going for a PhD bear in mind you *will* be writing the research you proposed f from day one for three years until you finish. There is no coursework, none to limited teaching etc. 5. Be careful if you want to work in the US/Canadian system after you finish. I have been advised by people on both sides of the Atlantic that because there is less of an all round element to a UK PhD and less teaching, US universities are not overly willing to take UK trained people straight out of a PhD - you would need to do several postdocs and other junior jobs before having the experience, especially in teaching. The issue you would face is that as an international student on a visa (I presume) this may be hard for you to do. The UK has an unfortunate Conservative government that has been not only attacking the funding for PhDs in humanities, but also reducing immigration by any means possible, including making it hard for very highly qualified and intelligent people, in all fields to work in the UK. Given the freedom of movement in the EU hiring Americans is currently a lot of hassle for UK universities, when they can hire someone from anywhere in the UK/Europe visa free. This isn't to say that it's impossible but I do know at least one American who did their PhD over here who 'fell through the cracks' - ie UK places were not that interested for non-academic reasons, and US institutions, because he did not have teaching experience were not interested either - it's just something to consider. Personally I am happier moving from the UK to the US for a PhD than I would be the other way round. Finally some words on the Universities in Question - within a UK view Leicester and Kent are middle ranking, but not bad Universities - Kent is in a much nicer location however. I don't know your interests so can't comment too much on why you have chosen them, but bear in mind that 'fit' is slightly less important in the UK than the US - if they *can* supervise it, and you aren't a moron, they will make an offer, but probably wont' fund it (Cambridge had 2 spots this year for all subfields of classics, with one guaranteed for literature, meaning that Archaeology, History, Linguistics, Philosophy, Art History applicants were all competing for one spot!). Overall I would say the 'top' places to do Classical Arch are UCL with the IOA and Oxford. Cambridge is not far behind but it is very poor at 'dirt' archaeology - the people there are excellent however. Other places you might want to look at, if you haven't already, are York, Edinburgh, Sheffield and Exeter. Bristol have some ok archaeology too. Anyhow feel free to PM me if you want to know more.

So having done April 15th, taken it down to the wire (not accepting anywhere until 2200 UK time - about 1700 EST) my final decision was: Accepted - Cincinnati, Columbia, Toronto, UT Austin. Rejected - Brown, Berkeley, Penn, Cornell, Michigan I'll be going to Cincinnati - tough choice between it and Columbia, but only one can supervise on Late Bronze Age that effectively. So here's **** to all the naysayers.

I just turned down a PhD offer for UT Austin. Hope it goes to someone on here!

Thanks! I do NOT know - this is driving me nuts - none of the British ones (yet) have funding, so I'm only really looking at the US/Canadian ones. I actually also just heard that I'd got a place at Columbia for Classical Studies over the weekend, which has made things even harder. The frontrunners in my debate right now are Columbia and Cincinnati (chase the name/reputation but change my direction somewhat, or to stick with the BA and work with awesome people like Jack Davis...it's a real tough one). However I'm actually a Canadian citizen (UK/Canada) so Toronto is very much up there - I'm visiting there later in the week after the IPCAA interview weekend - like Columbia that would represent a change in direction, but if I really like the place I'm totally not discounting it at this stage. UT Austin - I love the Program and think the people there are great, but the funding is not as good as the other three options I have, so I suspect I will probably turn it down this week. If you're on a waiting list, I know it's not the thing you want to hear, but I do assure you I'm not sitting on offers I'm definitely not interested in - I am honestly gathering as much information as I can before making a decision. It is a pretty life defining decision though - Bronze Age specialist or more traditional 'Classicist' and I really can't make this decision yet - + I have not heard from Penn (although I assume rejection by now) and obviously I have the interview at Michigan which would be really tempting if I were lucky enough to get a place.

I would suggest Arrian as a great 'gateway' author. That said I have never really paid attention to dialect/form - once you've learned attic you will be able to read all ancient Greek no problem, and a lot of Modern Greek also

APPLIED Toronto, Cincinnati, UT Austin, Cornell, Brown, Berkeley, Oxford, Cambridge, Columbia, Michigan, Penn, Nottingham, Sheffield. RESULTS: ACCEPTED: - Toronto, Cincinnati, UT Austin, Oxford, Cambridge, Nottingham, Sheffield INTERVIEW: Michigan (IPCAA) – still to come. Columbia (Classical Studies) – I do not know what is going on here – have been in contact with department chair who says they are ‘quite hopeful’ of an offer, but it’s been snarled up in their bureaucracy due to them wanting ‘field distribution’. Whether this is a nice way of them saying I’m waitlisted I don’t know…I can’t see why they would say what they have unless they meant it. REJECTED: Cornell, Brown, Berkeley, Penn (AAMW) – I do not know for sure about Penn as they have said nothing. I assume rejection. AREA OF INTEREST: Classical Archaeology, Aegean Prehistory. Specifically the Late Bronze Age. Public Space in the Ancient World and the construction of Social order. Relationships between Text and Archaeology. Ordinary life in the ancient World. DEGREES BA (Hons), MPhil both from Cambridge. GRE: 165V, 147Q, 5.0 Writing. GPA: N/A as international. For those familiar with the UK system 1st Class BA, ‘High Pass’ MPhil (Averaging over 70%, which some Universities call a Distinction). PROFESSIONAL STUFF: No publications or conference presentations. No teaching experience. GREEK AND LATIN. I had the ‘traditional’ British Classical education. I started Latin at 8, and Greek at 13 (I am 23 now). Texts read – a lot both in Class and in my own time. This is a truncated form of the reading list I sent to several Universities: Calpurnius Siculus, Eclogues, (1,4,7). Cicero – Pro Caelio (entire Text). Cicero – Pro Lege Manilia (entire Text). Cicero - De Oratore 2.216-90 Cicero – In Pisonem (About half) Horace – Satires (Book I). Livy – Ab urbe condita (Book XXI) Lucan – Civil War (Books VIII, IX) Lucretius – De rerum natura (Book III). Martial – Epigrams (Book X). Persius – Satires (1,5,9) Petronius – Satyricon (Cena Trimalchionis). Phaedrus (Book V) Plautus – Asinaria (complete). Pliny – Letters (6.16, 6.20). Seneca – Apocolocyntosis (complete). Seneca – Thyestes (complete). Seneca – Medea (complete). Suetonius – Lives of the Emperors (Nero). Terence – Hautontimorumenus (complete). Virgil – Aeneid (Books II, IV, IX) Virgil – Eclogues (entire Text) Anonymous – Gesta Francorum (complete). Anonymous – Origo Constantini imperatoris. Augustus – Res Gestae (complete) Caesar – De Bello Gallico (Half of Book 1) Cicero – Pro Roscio Amerino (Half) Cicero – In Catalinam I (complete) Cicero – In Catalinam II (complete) Catullus – all shorter poems. Florus – Epitome of Roman History. Lactantius – De Mortibus persecutorum. Juvenal – Satires (1, 2) Manilius – Astronomica (50 lines) Sallust – Cataline (half) Silius Italicus – extracts (about 100-150 Lines) Suetonius – Augustus Statius – Thebaid (about 30 Lines) Velleius Paterculus – Book 1 Aeschylus/Pseudo –Aeschylus – Prometheus Bound (Complete) Aesop 102, 228, 229,292 Aristophanes – Birds (Complete) Euripides – Helen (Complete) Euripides – Alcestis (Complete) Euripides – Trojan Women (Complete) Euripides – Medea (Complete) Herodotus – Book 1 (Half) Hesiod – Theogony (Complete) Hesiod – Works and Days (Complete) Homer – Iliad (Books 1,3,6,9,18,21,24) Homer – Odyssey (Books 11,18,20) Lucian – Prometheus (Complete) Lysias – Speech 1 (Complete) Pindar, Olympians 1, 6, 7, 9 Plato – Crito (Complete) Plato - Protagoras (320c-324c) Plato - Symposium (189a-193e) Thucydides – 1.1-15, 2.1-65. Arrian – Anabasis extracts (about 20-30 pages in the original) Aristophanes – Clouds (Complete) Aristophanes – Frogs (Complete) Aristophanes – Thesmophoriazusae (Complete) Aristophanes – Ecclesiasuzae (Complete) Aristophanes – Acharnians (Complete) Aristophanes – Knights (Complete) Aristophanes – Lysistrata (Complete) Aristophanes – Peace (Complete) Euripides – Cyclops (around a quarter) Homer – Odyssey (Book 10) Pausanias – Book 1 (about half) Plutarch – Alexander Quintus Smyrnaeus – Fall of Troy (Book 1, 2) Sophocles – Oedipus Rex (200 lines) Xenophon - Cyropaedia (about 20 pages) Xenophon – Anabasis (about 10 pages) OTHER LANGUAGES: French – studied 7-16 at school can get through stuff in it. Modern Greek – based on knowledge of ancient have read stuff in this, very slowly with grammar and dictionary. German – rudimentary. FIELD EXPERIENCE – 1 Week. It is not true you need tonnes to get into Classical Archaeology Programs. WRITING SAMPLE: Varied depending on length. Either my 12,000 word MPhil dissertation or a 5000 word essay from my MPhil. Both on Aegean Prehistory. REFERENCES: Two from senior Professors, both of whom are well known , one in Ancient History/Art History, one in Roman Archaeology. The other from my MPhil supervisor, who specialises in Aegean Prehistory. In talking to a Professor post-admission at one Program he said he had rung up and talked to one of my reference writers so this is something to bear in mind in choosing writers. He also said that he’d contacted a Professor who I’d mentioned in my Statement as having influenced me in choosing the Program, but who did not write me a letter of recommendation. ADVICE FOR FUTURE APPLICANTS Think very carefully where you apply, particularly if you are an archaeologist or someone with slightly unusual interests. Fit will be particularly important, and more so than ‘prestige’, whatever that is. For a Bronze Age specialist UT Austin and Cincinnati were always going to be top choices – do not be seduced by ‘top 10’ lists, but rather where you think you will get in. When I look at my rejections it is completely clear in each case what the weakness was – namely that at those departments while Aegean Prehistory had some place, it was very much on the periphery of the department. It’s worth pointing out that I got rejected from Brown’s Joukowsky Institute program, and other pure ‘archaeology programs’ that I contacted, with the exception at IPCAA were less keen given my Classics Background – if you want to get into Classical Archaeology with a Classics undergrad then it’s definitely worth targeting ‘Classics’ Departments. Looking back I should have reviewed Faculty lists more carefully than I did and I think I would not have applied to two of the Programs I did and got rejected from. That said it is OK to go for different places stressing different interests – as has been said before, so long as it is the truth. I would be very happy to write an eventual PHD thesis on Aegean Prehistory or Space and Society in the Ancient world – hence I could happily apply to a Program like Columbia’s Classical Studies stressing an intention to move away from Aegean Prehistory – at this stage of my life/career, I would be happy to take either path – the problem was applying somewhere like Cornell and stressing my Aegean Prehistory to a huge amount, when it is only a minor part of what their department does. My GRE Verbal and Writing are good, but not exceptional for Classics applicants, and my Quantitative is appalling – I can only surmise it is totally irrelevant, or a minimal part of the application. I wrote a new Statement of Purpose for each institution, although certain core sections were the same in their thrust – mainly describing what I did for my MPhil Dissertation and the theoretical and factual questions I asked in it and what I wanted to go on and do in a PhD – one Program contacted me and wanted to know more, and admitted me after I went into a little more detail. Languages: personally I feel they are overestimated. I have very strong Latin and Greek, but only decent, compared to some, modern languages – I’m not as convinced they are as much as a deal breaker as some people have made out. INTERVIEWS I have only thus far had them on Skype. I will be going to Michigan later this month. Skype interviews are inherently awkward experiences and I thought they were all awful, although the three I’ve had resulted in one invitation for an in-person interview, an acceptance, and the maybe not sure situation I have at Columbia (see above). A note to people applying in the UK – UK grad interviews are nothing like US ones, they last about half an hour so there is no disadvantage to not coming in person. I got asked all sorts of things ranging from what my interests were, to defending a point I made in one of the papers I sent over. Two questions that caught me out were ‘who is your favourite theorist’ rather than the standard ‘favourite book/article’ question, and ‘if you had to plan a graduate level seminar course what would it be on?’.

I know a couple of people who got funding, both were former students of the Faculty - the department has NO money at the moment (3 funded spots last year) and I was talking to a senior Professor the other day who said they have even less this year...

I got one of the acceptances and my focus is (perhaps predictably for UC) the Aegean Bronze Age, specifically the Late Bronze Age Argolid and Thessaly. I'm debating between UC or UT Austin as both are great for BA stuff. I saw the notifications on here and emailed Professor Davis who had tried to contact me on Skype the night before. He emailed back with positive news and wants to talk this evening (UK time). Phone/Skype seems to be the preferred first option.

My attitude is exactly as I said. However I suppose my perspective, working in a 'marginal' field is different to most: I come from one of the strongest departments for both my Undergrad and Master's but didn't even really consider it for a PhD - nor did I consider a lot of 'top' programs. Instead I'm applying to places like UT Austin and the University of Cincinnati and the University of Toronto. Your 'conventional' wisdom my state that coming out of those programs I would have little chance of a job, yet I suggest that is not the full picture - if I want to work on the Bronze Age, to my eyes these are the best Programs and the ones which leave me with the best chance of landing a job in that area. As to your last articles - I'm not sure anyone is unaware that it's tough, but I don't see why one should not try at the very least. Nothing stops us changing career direction post-phd.

I beg to differ. I don't view university, at any level, as being about a job. I'm only after a PhD out of interest. However those PhDs I have known, who have got jobs, including some out of very middling departments, have been exceptional.

Did you get rejected for a job or something? You sound unhappy. As far as I'm concerned if you're good, you'll make it.

I don't really care: I'm not in a 'mainstream' field (Aegean Bronze Age), so didn't really apply to 'top 10' programs. I reckon I have a shot at employment if I perform well within my field, publish and network. It's one of those odd areas where otherwise not leading Programs like that at the University of Cincinnati or UT Austin are rather good. Plus I rather like the field - I don't necessarily view the PhD as a means to get a job. That would be an added bonus at the end - I would be equally happy to teach in a school or do something unrelated by the end.

This is Classics? Or all 'Classical things' - any news of a waitlist for classical studies?

Thanks - interviewed last week, so guess maybe not dead yet!

Can you quote the email - still waiting for anything. Being bronze age in speciality, would be very surprised to get an acceptance, but hey, nothing wrong with living in hope:)

Well I applied for AAMW so can live in hope. Not particularly bothered, good offers in the US and UK.

I'm also waiting to hear from UPenn, but have heard something from everywhere else.

Anyone heard anything from Cornell?

I think it must have been a pre-screening - I got an invite to the weekend today. I assume given that for them to cover my travel is expensive they wanted to talk first. N

So are you american? I see there being two possibilities: 1. They don't want to pay for internationals to come without a pre-interview. 2. They aren't having internationals come at all. 3. They had a 'bottom shortlist' on which they interview people prior to potential invites. .

Michigan people - anyone else applied IPCAA? I had a skype interview with them earlier this week, but nothing about a recruitment weekend was mentioned. This could be because I'm international, but interested about this one...

Who interviewed you? I just had mine - Terranato and Nevett. Not sure it went brilliantly - I love the program at Michigan but there aren't really Faculty in my area still pleased to have got to the interviews.

That's interesting. The extent of my experience was one week in the field! Still can't complain as it's got me a couple of interviews and an acceptance so far.

Out of interest, to the archaeologists here, how much field experience do you have? i was worried about my app since I have very limited experience (you Americans get so much more opportunity you know!)