Lantern

I agree with joro. If your first choice isn't demanding a decision, it can't hurt to wait.

Good point about size being relative. I knew from visiting that it was small, but I had no idea how small so I looked it up: 10,000. Also, it's one of those small towns that is just kind of spread out. No "downtown" whatsoever. Here are some demographics for the sake of having well-informed opinion givers: High school or higher: 82% Bachelor's degree or higher: 20% Graduate or professional degree: 8% I'm guessing the 8% w/ a grad degree make up the faculty here. This is not what I would consider an "academic community" nor is it a "college town". In my opinion, this is an amazing school in a somewhat unfortunate location. I have spoken with current grad students about the location issue, and they all agree that it is an issue, but say they don't regret their choice due to the quality of the school and their academic experience there. And in reference to Sassytune, yes, there is a larger campus, but it is 30 minutes away, and unlikely that I would ever go there for classes or any other practical reason. Keep the opinions coming, it's giving me lots to contemplate!

Thanks to everyone for your opinions so far, and keep them coming! This is exactly what I need, and why I love Grad Cafe so much - lots of opinions, open minds, and thoughtful advice. One clarification - I am going for my MS, so it would be three years in either place. I'm not sure where people got the idea that it was a Ph D, unless it was due to my age! Also, a note: when I posted this, I think several of you were correct in thinking that I was leaning toward #2. However, despite the opinions above (NOT in spite!) , I feel as though I am leaning toward #1. I suppose it is the natural process of deciding when you sway back and forth.

I keep getting them about forensic science programs, which cracks me up! That is miles away from what I want to do!

I wish I did have some advice. I am agonizing over this myself. It is easy to read someone else's post and say, "yeah, go where it would be better for your career". But, if it were that simple I wouldn't be agonizing over it myself. I do think happiness is really important, but it's easy to speculate where you'd be happiest, and impossible to know!

You can see how stressed I am about this decision - I forgot to mention one of the most important things: funding. It's pretty much equal at either school. (Incase anyone needed that info to "decide".) Has anyone out there gone to grad school in a teeny little town? If so, was it as bad as I suspect?

I was just recently accepted into one school. I also recently spoke with a professor at a second school who said my acceptance is very likely. It seems as though in my field (or at least with these two schools) you need to accept “unofficially” directly with the professor with whom you would work before you can get the official acceptance letter from the Dean. I don't want to "count my chickens before they hatch" with school #2, but I need to make the decision soon so I can let the professors know. (I know I officially have until April 15, but I am not going to drag it out that long because of the other person waiting if I decline. Plus I cannot endure this stress for that long!) Allow me say that if I had been accepted to just one of the four schools I applied to, I would have been thrilled. I am now beyond thrilled! I honestly did not expect to get accepted anywhere, least of all my top two. I am not complaining. I realize that I am in an extremely fortunate situation – that is, of agonizing over which school to choose. So here’s the deal: School #1: Great advisor, great school, wonderful reputation. My absolute dream project – only a handful of students across the country (or less) will be working on a similar project. This school is part of a larger school, but is on a completely separate campus, and is in the middle of nowhere. School #2: Also great advisor, great school, wonderful reputation. This school is more well-known, which is mainly a factor of its’ size. The project is very interesting to me, but not nearly as unique as the project at School #1. Due to the size of School #2, there would be a lot more academic opportunities and resources here. Also, this school is in a city I have been dreaming of living in ever since I spent 3 weeks there two years ago. (Although it is completely on the other side of the country from my family, which is a slight negative). So my question is, just how important is location? Should I give up on my dream project to live in a location I know would make me happy, knowing that the other project interests me, too? Or should I suck it up to work on my dream project even thought I know I won’t particularly enjoy living there? (I have never lived in this small town, but have spent enough time in the area to know that there is nothing there.) Another factor to consider is that I am in my 30’s. I am certainly not ready to run out and get married immediately, but the way I have lived my life for the past 12 years has made it difficult to have much of a social life, or any type of lasting relationship. (I’ve been constantly on the move, working tons of jobs, and living at sea.) I think this is the main reason I’m worried about committing 3 years to living in a place with almost no opportunities for social interaction beyond the small group of students with whom I would be going to school. Any opinions/insights would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your advice, everyone. To follow up: about 4 hours after I got the official job offer I got accepted to grad school!!!! I was surprised and overjoyed! Since grad school was no longer only a possibility, I felt I had to be honest. I emailed, and explained the situation. I did say that if he could accept me as a short-term hire that I would absolutely accept the job. Of course, he couldn't, but I felt it was worth a try. So, I may not get to live in Hawaii, but I'm going to grad school!!! That makes me happy!

Good question - I posted the same thing several months ago. I felt that I got some really good advice. Check it out: There's even a link there for a previous thread that was similar. I ended up not applying to both programs. My strongest reason was that I had emailed professors in both departments, and heard nothing back from the professors in the dept. that I decided not to apply to. I decided if they wouldn't respond to my emails, they wouldn't be likely to accept and fund me, so I didn't want to jeopardize my chance with the dept. that did acknowledge me. Good luck, I don't think there's any one definitive answer to this one!

Yes, definitely go, and definitely have lots of questions that you want to ask! I was very, very shy when I was younger, and have been slowly overcoming it all of my life. People will always give dating advice by saying, "Ask your date questions. People love to talk about themselves". Although this is obviously not a dating situation, it is true that anyone who isn't shy loves nothing more than to talk about themselves. I have successfully used this tactic to shift the attention away from myself many times. You could make it your "job" during the visitation weekend to get people to talk about themselves by asking questions, thereby shifting the attention away from yourself. You might even make some connections that would facilitate your transition into school when the time comes in the fall. Good luck!

I think a lot of posters here had valid advice. With that said, I agree that visiting the school is absolutely the best idea. I visited 3 of the 4 schools I applied to and it gave me a much better feel for the school, the advisor, the advisor's students, and the location. Also, if you haven't met your potential advisor, you might feel an immediate rapport with him/her or completely the opposite. I don't think you can overlook the value of intuition, and if you don't feel that it is right for you after visiting, then I think it is ok to say no. Also, I think it would be wise to be very realistic with yourself about where you may be able to get in next year. I am making absolutely no judgements. I don't know anything about grad schools in your field. Good luck, this is not an easy decision.

I just realized I posted using an identical title as the post regarding when to tell an employer. I have been folloiwng that thread, but intentionally started a new thread because I think these are two very different issues: telling a new employer before they hire you versus when to tell your long-time employer. Sorry about the duplicate title.

Thanks for the advice so far. Just to add a little more info - I have been out of college for 11 years, so I do have lots of experience. Sure, you can never have too much, but I'm not in the situation where I'm fresh out of undergrad and totally green. I applied to 4 schools. It's hard for me to gauge how likely I am to get in. When I first applied, I had very little belief in myself that I would get in, but I have had professors at two of the schools express interest in me and my possible projects. I know that doesn't mean anything concrete, but it's definitely a good sign that they are showing interest. I am confident that when the schools decide to accept or reject me they will let me know. Maybe I am wrong, but I feel that calling them to see where they are in the acceptance process will not yield much fruitful information. Also, the job would start in mid- to late March, which is good as I am currently unemployed. I was given April 15th as the date I would hear from most of my schools. Also, I don't think "stiffing" my potential future employer would have any negative consequences on my future career. Although the job is related to my future career, it is not a job I would try to go back to in the future. I'm more concerned about disappointing my potential future employer if they put a lot of training time in to get me up to speed on the job. If I were to be rejected from all schools, then I would be very happy to have the job that I am currently worried about taking. That's why I feel as though I need to plan for not getting into grad school. If I don't, I really need a job (for mental/emotional as well as financial reasons)! I know this is a decision only I can make, I'm just wondering what you all would do if you were in a similar situation.

I am very likely about to be offered a great job in an amazing location, all related to my future career. (I had the in-person interview yesterday, the interviewer called my previous supervisor this morning, and told him that I am their first choice and they are "hoping to get me". ) My problem is that I haven't told the people at the new job that I have applied to grad school. My potential future supervisor is looking for a minimum of a 1-2 year committment, saying most people aren't completely comfortable in the job until after 2 years (b/c there's such a variety of stuff to do and learn). For me, at this point, grad school is still my #1 priority, but I have no guarantee of getting in, so I feel that I need to plan as though I am not getting in. When I talked with friends about this, they all told me, "you have to look out for yourself first" - meaning take the job. But I really don't want to screw over my potential new employer if I do happen to get into grad school. Should I tell the people at the new job that grad school is a possibility, or is that a sure way to have them not offer me the job? Or do I just take the job when it's offered, and worry about the rest when it happens? What would you do?

Absolutely fascinating. Makes me re-think the whole idea of prisoners' rights. I realize this is only somewhat related, but I used to work on traditional sailing vessels (aka "sailing school vessels" or "tall ships"). I worked with a variety of students - middle school kids, junior high boys that were court adjudiciated and lived in a group home, priviledged high school kids, and college groups. I often felt that the court adjudicated youth that I worked with and taught were better at personalizing the experience and shared deeper insights than the others. They were also better at dealing with the structure of the program, but I think that was in response to the structure they were accustomed to from living in a group home.

I lived on a sailboat that was based in Norfolk about 4 years ago. I didn't have a car, so I was mostly limited to places I could get by foot or bicycle. That said, I really enjoyed Norfolk! We were docked right downtown, and there's a nice little strip (Granby Street) that is just lined with restaurants and bars. In the warmer months, several of the restaurants have outside seating on the sidewalk which I always thought was nice and unexpected for Norfolk. There's also a similiar street called Colley Avenue in Ghent, which is a walkable distance from downtown. My favorite thing about Norfolk was the eccentric little places you could find after looking around for a bit. I feel funny mentioning names, I don't want anyone to think I am affiliated with a certain business (I'm not), but there is a really nice coffee shop, diner, book store, drive-in restaurant (where you will be instantly transported to an earlier decade and you can sit in your car while the waitresses come out to take your order and deliver your food), and a few other places like that. You'll just have to do a little exploring to find them! There's also a nice "Heritage Trail" where you can walk or jog along the waterfront, and a really neat war memorial right at the corner of the park in town. It has letters written by men in wars going far back into history up until today. The letters are reproduced on large bronze "letters" that look like they were left to blow around in the wind. Not something that would normally merit a mention from me, but I thought it was really neat. And, when you get tired of Norfolk, you can hop on a ferry and cross the river for $2 and be in Portsmouth. I have two favorite sites in Portsmouth: one is a really unique movie theater, where you can sit at a table and order food, beer, and wine via a telephone during the movie. The second is a German Beer Garden bar/restaurant with some of the most knowledgable bartenders I've ever bought beer from! I know these small details may not answer all of your questions, but it sums up my view of Norfolk as a pretty neat place. If you do end up there, enjoy!

I would recommend that you have an answer prepared for if they ask you to what other schools/programs you're applying. Judging from the number of times this topic comes up here, it is not only common, but has also caught a lot of people off-guard.

I haven't done much research in sketchy areas, but I do have a few years of experience living/working and traveling in Central America. I think the best thing you can do is use good judgement. I know this might sound trite, but good judgement has enabled me to safely do lots of solo traveling. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't, and sometimes you just have to trust your intuition. I don't know what to tell you about the knife - I personally wouldn't carry one, but then again I don't have any training. I know that in my case, as a relatively small female, it would most likely be taken from me and used against me. I can see that if you're trained in self-defense, it may be a different story. I guess my strongest thought is that a knife isn't going to offer much protection against a gun. In some Central American countries it's not at all unusual to see guys get on public buses with guns on their belt, so they're not hard to get for the locals. I would definitely limit the number of expensive electronics you bring. Theft is very common. You could try out a local hostel, but check out the security of it, and have a good look around. Befriend the locals, and you'll always have someone to look out for you. I don't think you're overreacting. You're just trying to be prepared. That's good. Good luck!

Field work with pelagic fish. The more time in the field the better, which is why I have no interest in a PhD. In my field a PhD will guarantee you a job in an office/classroom, which is not what I'm looking for.

Good question...I don't really have a Plan B. It's not that I haven't thought about it, it's just that I haven't come up with an answer. If I don't make it in this year, I don't know that I will apply again. I also recently resigned from my job. It paid well, and actually was somewhat related to what I want to do, but it was killing me slowly. Supposedly I have another job in the works, but I won't believe it until I'm there. Unfortunately in my field it is nearly impossible to get any decent kind of job with just a B.S. (I suspect this is the case for many fields these days), so I have this idea that I'll choose a totally different field. The only problem with that is that there is really nothing else I want to do. By that I don't mean I don't have any other interests, it's just that anything else pales in comparison. In truth, I will probably just take off and travel for awhile. That's what I always do when I don't know what else to do.

I'm assuming that you're graduating soon, and it may seem counter-intuitive since you mentioned that you are unable to pull up your current GPA, but you could always take more classes after you graduate. I was also a bio major, and I did really well in all my life science courses, but struggled with calculus and some of the higher-level physics and chem classes required for my degree. You didn't mention what you'd like to focus on in grad school, but my suggestion would be to take some extra classes within your focus, and if you do well in those classes, it would prove your aptitude for that topic. And yes, certainly study hard and do well on the GREs, and get any research experience you can. You might even want to start thinking about who you will ask for letters of recommendation when you are ready for grad school. With a lower GPA, it will help if your professors know you well, and have a favorable impression of you. I'm NOT implying that you should "kiss up" to any professors or anything like that, but do make an effort to have a professional relationship with them so that they will have personalized, genuine things to write about you in the future.

A very similar thing happened to me, when asked specificially who I was hoping to work with at another school. The professor with whom I was having the conversation didn't tell me straight out not to go there, but he did say it's an extremely "cut-throat" place to do your master's - not the getting accepted part, the actual doing your research part. It made me uncomfortable to hear one professor kind of slamming another, and I think if the professor I was discussing it with had any kind of ego, I would have dismissed it immediately. Instead, it just kind of put me on guard for that other school. Sometimes the reactions I get are almost comical. I had one professor ask where else I was applying, then put that school in a category below his school. By common knowledge of the programs at both schools, the one he put down is very much above the one he works at. I think it's only human nature, so you really have to take all professor's views and judgements with a grain of salt.

Everyone is entitled to a vent every now and then, and I certainly understand the notion of not wanting to be alone in a certain thought or situation. One thing you can't do is start over at 22, so put it behind you and do your best now. Maybe your mind isn't quite as sharp as it used to be, but think of the maturity that you have gained. Although you may have very serious responsibilities now (like a marriage and kids!), I'm guessing you have gained more focus and better time management skills. I graduated from college 12 years ago. In that time I have traveled, volunteered, worked many, many, many jobs, and finally found what I want to do. I wouldn't change that. I can honestly say I'm glad I didn't go to grad school right out of college. I just wasn't ready, and it never crossed my mind. To wish that I would have gone then would be to wish I were a completely different person, which is useless. Several professors that I spoke with in person during my grad school explorations told me they prefer older students due to their maturity and focus. I realize this may not be the same in all disciplines, so I'm not trying to speak for all, just offering a different point of view. And to those of you straight out of college, I am not trying to make you feel as though you are at a disadvantage. I'm just saying that everyone brings something different to grad school depending on who they are, and what kind of background they have. I'm sure every age group, not to mention every individual, has their own challenges, so let's just hope that we all get accepted to our first choices, and get to work on those challenges!

This sums it up exactly! I was not asked on any of my applications, but most potential advisors I have spoken with have asked. I don't think it was true at the time, but when I replay the scene in my mind, I even picture the professor asking me in a sheepish way, as though they know they really shouldn't, but they just can't help asking to see how they measure up, and who might get you if they don't (like someone you're dating). One professor even asked me who I would be working with at other schools. That much detail did make me uncomfortable, but mainly because I am applying for two different types of programs at different schools, and I didn't exactly want schools to know that I have two different interests. (I've discussed this here before - I would absolutely love to do either thing, but I'm afraid it makes me look like I don't know what I want to do since I have two very different interests.) I agree that it is probably for statistics, but I think curiosity also plays a part. We all know that our individual fields are small communities, and a lot of professors know and work with each other at different schools. I think it just gives them an idea of how much work you've done to find your "fit" at other schools.

I agree with the above posters, but also wanted to add alexis to the list of super-helpful posters. I wish I had a better memory so I could post more details, but I do remember posting a question for which I really felt that I needed an immediate answer. Alexis posted advice almost immediately, was super helpful, and just came across as being very level-headed. Thanks for that! And thanks to everyone who helps out with such sincere and generous advice. It is so nice to have a place to turn to for great advice when all of us need so much of it!