[Responding to e-mails from PIs]

From a long letter of interest sent to the PI of a lab participating in a PhD Program I'm applying to, I get this reply :

"Hi Y,

Thanks for your interest.  Yes, I’m accepting students.  Please let me know if you have any questions about the program.

H

"

How do I respond? I tried to keep it brief but I already told him my interests, why I'm interested in his lab, and sent my CV.  The only question I would have is "what should I put on my application?", but am I allowed to ask that in the first place?

[2017 Applicant Profiles and Admissions Results]

Updating mine with the Institutions I am applying to. Spent the past few weeks e-mailing and talking to PI with labs of interest. Unfortunately all of them replied with very stately answers; adopting the tone of “the application process is tough, but you should do it anyways ... because I sure did!”. I actually have no clue to my chances. I think I might need to cut down the list, I'm making the same mistake I did last time: I applied to programs which cover the research topic I'm most interested in, which is only found in programs which are far out of my reach and I lack the education and training to do well in.

Have the LORS ready, still writing out Personal Statements for the final 4 weeks of the cycle. I hope I'm not too late (I probably am but it might not matter).

 

On 6/8/2016 at 1:50 PM, Yuanyang said:

 

Undergrad Institution:Reed College
Major(s): Biology (B.A.)
Overall GPA: 2.6

Current  Institution: Georgia Institute of Technology

Major(s): Bioinformatics (M.S)
Current GPA: 3.38

Expected Graduation : spring 2017

Position in Class: Average
Type of Student: the best type.
GRE Scores (revised):
Q: 157
V:162
W: 4

Research Experience: 3 years undergraduate REU, 2 years as a Research Techician at MIT, 2 Years Technican/MS student at Georgia Tech

Awards/Honors/Recognitions: Betty Liu Undergraduate Research Fellowship, Georgia Tech Graduate Research Award.

Pertinent Activities or Jobs: My responsibilities at GT include sample prep for genomic sequencing and developing pipelines for Exome analysis. Wrote a of Computer Vision program for tracking animals. Currently working in a joint research project in neuroethology and genetics. While I was working at MIT, I developed software to analyze sets of data generated by transgenic mice in an automated operant conditioning boxes.

Any Miscellaneous Accomplishments that Might Help: one middle author publication in Frontiers Neuroscience

Any Other Info That Shows Up On Your App and Might Matter: Odd transfer credits from University of Washington (summer neuroethology program), and Harvard Extension School (elective courses and Intro Physics which I did not do at my undergrad)

Applying to Where:

Columbia University
Neuroscience
Duke University
Neurobiology
UCSD
Cognitive Science
Washington University in St. Louis
Neuroscience
UT Southwestern Medical
Neuroscience
USC
Neuroscience
University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Neuroscience
Oregon Health and Science University
Neuroscience
 

 

 

[MS student applying to PhD in another field]

I didn't know where to post to get advice, I'm hoping at least this is a good place to start. Yes I do realize this is quite late in the application season.

Background: Originally after my B.A degree in biology, I took a year to volunteer at OMSI in Portland while applying for research tech. jobs in neuroscience. I was hired for a neuroscience lab at MIT where i worked for 2 years and had a middle-author publication.  I then tried applying to Ph.D programs in the fall of 2014, no interviews and no admissions. I then applied for MS programs and then was accepted for a Bioinformatics MS degree at Georgia Tech. I'm finishing a 3-semester professional development degree with no thesis but with research work in a neuroscience & genetics lab - no chance for publications.

Question: What is the best way to describe my meager research experience to a Ph.D program in neuroscience? I am concerned that my lack of publications and accomplishments in 5 years since my BA will hurt me and that my MS degree will be disregarded. Should I try a different field? bioinformatics,  biology or psychology? I am having alot of issues trying to fit my skills and accomplishments where none seem to exist or are relevant. I feel rather stupid for trying.

[2017 Applicant Profiles and Admissions Results]

On 8/19/2016 at 3:53 PM, Bioenchilada said:

What about your SOP? Did you have people look at it and tell you their most honest criticism? Do you think that it was an accurate and honest reflection of yourself and your research? Were you close enough to your recommenders for them to tell you how much of a good letter they could write? 

I had hired Signet Education to get one of their tutors to help me with the SOPs for 10 of the applications. Cost me I think at least $600 in fees to the tutor. I was certain at that price I would at least get some constructive criticism and I did have to rewrite them several times. If the SOPs were good, then they clearly were not good enough.

One of my recommenders was my supervisor whom I was very close and had very good experiences with (I also was a co-author with her). The next one was from PI of the lab at MIT which probably was, though from a very influential scientist, was likely a xerox copy with blanks filled in with my name. The third was a professor from a summer program and was sent late to a few programs. Needless to say, I think that was the weakest of the 3 letters.

 

[2017 Applicant Profiles and Admissions Results]

@Bioenchilada

I actually applied to 14 PhD programs in the fall and after getting rejection letters from each one of them I hastily applied to any program that was still open and landed on Georgia Tech's program. The reasoning was that doing a masters was better than doing nothing for a year (I was also unemployed). I was very desperate at the time, probably just chose all the wrong places to apply to. 

The MS in Bioinformatics at GT does not have a Thesis component, its course based with an internship component (I fulfilled that by working at the lab I'm in right now). Low GPA is due to SNAFU with credit reporting; I had earned less credit hours for research experience that was graded. I will get this corrected so it should bring me up to a 3.3 GPA which does not help much.  Also, I had to return to Singapore because I heard that my father is dying, this was 3 weeks before finals last semester (I regret this decision only because, today, my father is still alive) . I returned right in the middle of reading week jet-lagged and behind in my studies.

I would not want to explain all this to an AdCom, this makes me look disorganized and prone to making excuses (both are true).

@PlanB

Any suggestions in Psychology? I heard from my predecessor in my lab that they're easier, he's currently studying for his PhD at UCSD.

 

 

[2017 Applicant Profiles and Admissions Results]

On 6/8/2016 at 2:42 PM, Bioenchilada said:

I suggest your cast a wide net and apply broadly, hopefully your Masters will help

What do you mean "broadly"? as in apply to lots of programs? (think 2 years ago I applied to about 22 schools in total)

I'm concerned that the Masters wont help at all since some professors say it doesn't count as research experience. Moreover, i have one more semester left but its likely that whatever grades I make this fall wont be seen in the application.

[2017 Applicant Profiles and Admissions Results]

Posting for the 2nd time. I feel like I'm the only person my age who still wants to be a PhD student, desperately.

Undergrad Institution:Reed College
Major(s): Biology (B.A.)
Overall GPA: 2.6

Current  Institution: Georgia Institute of Technology

Major(s): Bioinformatics (M.S)
Current GPA: 3.14

Position in Class: Average
Type of Student: the best type.
GRE Scores (revised):
Q: 157
V:162
W: 4

Research Experience: 3 years undergraduate REU, 2 years as a Research Techician at MIT, 1 Year Technican/MS student at Georgia Tech

Awards/Honors/Recognitions: Betty Liu Undergraduate Research Fellowship, Georgia Tech Graduate Research Award.

Pertinent Activities or Jobs: Labwork (wet and in silico). Lots of raspberry Pi experience. Lots of experience with Noldus tools and systems.

Any Miscellaneous Accomplishments that Might Help: one middle author publication in Frontiers Neuroscience

Misc notes but not an accomplishment: I dont know if it matters but I was in contact with Eric Kandel and he said he wanted to talk to me about a student position in his lab. I tried to follow up but I wasn't able to get past his secretary. That was 2 years ago.

Any Other Info That Shows Up On Your App and Might Matter: Odd transfer credits from University of Washington (summer neuroethology program), and Harvard Extension School (elective courses and Intro Physics which I did not do at my undergrad)

Applying to Where:

Columbia University - Department of Neurosciences - Computational Neuroscience
University of Washington - Graduate Program in Neurosciences - Computational Neuroscience
More to follow; would like suggestions.

[First Year Students - Fall 2015 - How's It Going?]

Taking all the easy intro classes and requirements for first semester.

But also got recruited into doing research for a lab. Mostly behavioral research and programming; both Im familiar with.

[Preparing for the worse.]

It's april and my only admit letter comes from Georga Tech to the "professional MS in Bioinformatics". I dont know if it's the best path to take, but as of now its the only path forward.

 

Unless someone has a better idea (I know you do).

[Preparing for the worse.]

No, i just think that I've gotten as much advice as I can (or as much as you guys want to).

 

But i guess if you really were interested in what i'm doing I could blog about it.

[Preparing for the worse.]

People put considerable time and effort into giving advice, whether you think they did or not. They took time to type something they thought you would find helpful. Calling them out for not saying what you want makes people less likely to give you constructive advice. How would you feel if you took the time to read 6 pages, gave your thoughts, and then OP basically told you it was useless??

It's similar to lab stuff. You slave over some data, hand it to your PI, and then they go "haha, this is awful!" It's not a good feeling and makes the person less likely to put that much time in again.

You've also named some professors by name, so you could reasonably be identified by someone. What you post on the Internet can and will come back to haunt you. Being rude to people on the Internet is the same as in real life.

/end rant

 

Its a big lab. 

 

But really, big help everyone.

[Preparing for the worse.]

You live, learn, and lurk.

 

Still, is it hard to read past the OP? its only 6 pages.

[Preparing for the worse.]

Thank you for reiterating stuff brought up at the very beginning of the thread.

 

 

 

 

Right now, I've started applying to MS programs in Biology and Bioinformatics but I'm still looking for program suggestions (and a real thanks to people who actually did). Correct me if i'm wrong, an MS degree in biological sciences is my best option right now if I want to get to (any sort of, but not top tier) PhD program in neuroscience. Thus, the plan is to apply to as many as possible for Fall 2015, and I'll sort it out if anyone will take me. From what I gather, even if its just coursework, an MS should (but not always will) help improve a really bad undergrad GPA. 

 

For everyone who've posted here, while I appreciate this shower of cold hard truth, I think you guys are getting sick of me. So I hope that soon, when the results are in, there will be other people who will come here to get the same great advice on what to do when all your efforts applying to PhD programs goes through the toilet bowl.

 

I'll update when I get my last rejections, when I do find a program, or when you need guys some easy rep on this forum.

[Preparing for the worse.]

I'm not in a neuroscience field but I think the user "000" (the neuroscience grad student) might be able to provide more helpful input in regards to your admission potential for these programs you are applying as part of plan B. 

 

Not all of those programs are in neuroscience, but maybe you can answer something else that I'm still unclear on. If I do a Masters in a life science field (there are a lot of names for them) that is not neuroscience/neurobiology and doesn't have that kind of focus, will it matter? Will a 4.0 GPA in that program have any value in a future PhD? is there some flexibly in life sciences? I'm seeing conflicting information from the people I've sent PM.

[Preparing for the worse.]

Regardless of how false your recommender was in terms of your admission potential, you should not be blaming others for suggesting you to apply or giving you false hopes. No matter what someone else has suggested or what someone else said about your potential for getting accepted, it was YOUR choice alone to ultimately apply to these schools, and you only have yourself to blame.

Since she wrote the letters for your past applications, I don't think she'll have any problem writing more letters for your new applications for this fall admission.

 

Correct. You figured out what everyone else in the thread has missed. 

 

Now I have to rely on you and apparently the people here who know more about graduate admissions than a Kavali prize winning institute professor. How I hate myself for listening to her instead of the internet people on grad cafe. So can you gauge my chances at those institutions I listed or should I be looking for different programs at other schools?

[Preparing for the worse.]

 

I can tell you that if you came to top-tier programs with glowing recommendations from these three people, you would be admitted somewhere. I am concerned that you're not able to get a technician position at MIT with anybody else... that suggests that there's more going on. Neuro labs in MIT/Harvard are not generally hurting for funding, and if you did a good job at your previous position, you should be able to "upgrade".

 

The very first thing they told me when I got hired was "we have a lot of money coming in". That is to a certain degree true, but its certainty not going to new technicians. The Graybiel lab used to have 6 Technicians on staff, now they only have one and its certainly not me. All the funding was instead used for new equipment and for another post-doc to work there. Everything the techs used to do was outsourced to companies like Transnetyx or is now done under supervision by undergraduates. This seems to be a trend in all the BCS and McGovern Labs; most of my technician co-workers are either leaving for grad school or finding work elsewhere.

 

Understand that it was not the rejection from schools that upsets me the most, it was the fact that I listened to Ann Graybiel when I was encouraged to apply for grad programs, was assured i would get in at least one program, and even with that I got nothing. I am not certain why; either a) I was lied to b)she underestimated the rigor of admissions c) she overestimated my credentials (even with 2.3uGPA) d)the letter of rec was not very positive, e) all of the above. Even worse, I'll have to rely on her letter again if i want to apply to MS programs on time.

 

 

 

Brandeis accepts M.S. applications for Neuroscience on rolling basis (until June 1, 2015): http://www.bio.brandeis.edu/grad/neuro/index.html

 

Google "neuroscience rolling admission" and you might get some results on programs that might still accept applications.

 

Brandeis has already been suggested in this thread, I'm looking into it. There are a few Neuroscience MS that are still accepting applications (most without funding) but I'm also considering MS programs in Biomedical science, Bioinformatics, and Psychology. I still don't know about how difficult it would be to get into a PhD program from a different field, the answers in this thread are very unclear about this.  This is what I've started so far:

 

Northeastern (MS Bioinformatics, MS Bioengineering)

Northwestern (MS Neuro)

Georgia Tech (MS Bioinformatics)

BU (MS Psych, MS Bioinformatics)

Texas A&M Veterinary (MS Neuro)

University of Sheffield (MS Neuro)

OSHU (MS Bioinformatics)

University of Idaho (MS Bioinformatics)

U maryland,baltimore (MS Biomedical)

[Preparing for the worse.]

I already have a hard time finding MS programs that haven't passed the deadline yet. Know of any particular PhD programs?

[Preparing for the worse.]

This is a post by Jeff Erikson:http://3dpancakes.typepad.com/ernie/2005/03/re_phd_with_low.htmlon the matter. 

 

Jeff Erikson had a low undergraduate gpa (2.4 I think) and is now a tenured full professor at a top 5 CS department and half his graduate students now have tenure.

 

He's proof it happens.  One thing I'll probably say is that he probably was much above average in intellectual ability in terms of students going to graduate school, so while he was lazy he was able to articulate that he had much more potential than his stats suggested.  Another thing is graduate school is much more competitive now. 

 

 

I actually read that article before. It basically told me I need to get one guy to pull alot of strings to get me in to a program. I thought I had that at some of the places I applied to, but obviously not. Hope it will help someone else reading the thread.

 

I'll definitely look into Queen's college, any labs there that you know are taking students? 

[Preparing for the worse.]

Check this one too:

 

http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/Psychology/Grad/masters/behav_neuro/index.html

 

Minimum requirements are an undergraduate overall GPA greater than 3.00 and at least 15 credits of Undergraduate Psychology, Neuroscience or equivalent courses. Both of which I don't have.

 

 

 

  What about research positions at Mass Gen (they have a major research division), Boston University, Boston Childrens Hospital, Harvard medical school etc. There are research positions available at all of those institutions. In a couple of months the current lab tech/research associates who applied to graduate school will be leaving so new job postings will be online. Also what about biopharmaceutical companies? They value research experience over grades which you have plenty of. There have to be start ups in the boston area that you could search. Here a few links for start up companies and jobs: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startuphire.com%2Fi%2Fjobs-at-Biotech-startups%3Fi%3D8&ei=JbnOVMP7DtTVoATek4HwCg&usg=AFQjCNFheFCES5YzuANKOcMEpzSiMlJgZg&sig2=iIEvvp8A8vyzu987CFwNQg&bvm=bv.85076809,d.cGU

https://angel.co/biotechnology ( try to find the websites for these start ups (the ones in your area), they will have job postings for sure if they are expanding).

 

 

 

I have applied to more than 50 job postings in the Boston area and in the US. I've gotten interviews from HMS, Boston Medical Center, and Transnetyx. I've applied to every Job I can find on Linkedin. No offers.

Ever since i got the layoff notice, I've been looking for work. That was almost 10 months ago. 

[Preparing for the worse.]

I should mention that the position that I held at MIT no longer exists. I have limited income and no tuition assistance.

 

Some have suggested to find another research job. I have looked for other positions at MIT and else where, got interviews, and no offers. I do not anticipate getting another research position, but I will have to work full-time/part-time to pay for coursework or a MS.

 

Someone also suggested I go to Australia and try to enter grad school there. I'm not sure of the merits.

[Preparing for the worse.]

I've said this before: I might never know for sure why I was rejected. Sure, its probably obvious to most on this board what is the problem with my credentials but from experience, admissions department are loathe to tell you the reason straight. From grad students I talked to, adcom heads, and professional admissions counselors, they all seem to make this process seem more like voodoo rituals rather than science. There is just too many social and bureaucratic nuances that will affect your chances of acceptance, maybe even more than just merit. 

 

I'm actually torn. On one hand, I've learned my lesson that if most people on this board said that you need to do something you better well listen. On the other, this guy did exactly the same thing as I did (worked as a lab tech), got interviews, and also read his own LORs beforehand. Admittedly he has a better Undergrad GPA than mine.I already know what one of my LORs looks like, it looks like a generic letter of rec from a super busy PI with my name added in ad lib.

 

I will not ask for copies of my LORs, I might still need my rights waived to apply for the few MS programs in neuroscience that are still accepting applicants. Some in this thread have already recommended a few programs which I am looking into. If none of those pan out, then i'll spend the summer re-taking courses I failed and try to apply for an MS in fall 2016 (as i mentioned earlier). In the meantime, I have to re-consider living conditions (Boston's a shit place to be a renter), jobs, and how to break the news to family and friends. I wouldn't call this a new opportunity- it doesn't feel new at all.

 

I also maintain that 50K isn't a small amount of money.

[Preparing for the worse.]

50K is not a little amount of money. And I still have at least 40K of debt already to pay back.

 

I just want to see how many paths there are, more options are good regardless of how much it may cost. But will paying 100K or more for a MS program be the best route? More to the point, I doubt that how much I spent on an MS will factor in PhD admissions.

 

Its really hard to get information on MS degrees in this field, which is why I'm asking here in the first place.

 

A part of me is considering taking summer courses of all the undergrad courses I failed, then applying to MS programs for next fall. Either that or apply to a rolling MS program in Biology/CS and see if I can get admitted this year.

[Preparing for the worse.]

I have tried. No dice.

 

I asked the Tonegawa lab and the Fee lab, got interviews, and no job.

 

I know of no one at MIT who has ever admitted a lab technician to become a PhD student in the same lab.

[Preparing for the worse.]

I think a second undergrad degree is a waste of time and $$$. You won't get any grants/scholarships from the new undergrad institution just loans. You may also have to re-do the general requirements in addition to the major requirements. Some schools will waive the gen requirements but not all. If the GPA is the main reason for your rejection then I would consider a Masters. You may not be able to do a Neuroscience Masters program, but general biomedical sciences program instead. What is your GPA for the last 60 semester/90 quarter units? Most masters will have a 3.0 minimum GPA, some will take the last 60/90 units instead. Also is direct admitting into your current lab not an option??

 

Last 2 years or the last 60/90 units had a GPA of 2.8.

 

I cannot get into the lab I was working in because first, the position no longer exists because the funding does not exist any more for it. Second, it was only a support staff position and not a staff research job; I never worked on my own projects but I did work with other staff researchers and post docs on their projects.

[Preparing for the worse.]

Emailing programs and PIs directly may be your best shot. Explain your situation and ask what they think your chances are. Some may give you the song and dance of "oh we look at the entire app" but others may be straight forward and say they have a minimum GPA or that they're more willing to look around that. Also having a PI of interest pulling for you may help pull your app out of the pile of those rejected.

 

I think the more straight forward ones have a better way of telling me to not apply. They ignore my e-mails.

 

I had a correspondence with a guy at Columbia University. He also went to my alma matter and understood why my GPA was so low. Unfortunately he was very non-committal to helping me get in, I assume because he was unsure if he could afford to hire a grad student this year.