Yuanyang

I've said this before: I might never know for sure why I was rejected. Sure, its probably obvious to most on this board what is the problem with my credentials but from experience, admissions department are loathe to tell you the reason straight. From grad students I talked to, adcom heads, and professional admissions counselors, they all seem to make this process seem more like voodoo rituals rather than science. There is just too many social and bureaucratic nuances that will affect your chances of acceptance, maybe even more than just merit. I'm actually torn. On one hand, I've learned my lesson that if most people on this board said that you need to do something you better well listen. On the other, this guy did exactly the same thing as I did (worked as a lab tech), got interviews, and also read his own LORs beforehand. Admittedly he has a better Undergrad GPA than mine.I already know what one of my LORs looks like, it looks like a generic letter of rec from a super busy PI with my name added in ad lib. I will not ask for copies of my LORs, I might still need my rights waived to apply for the few MS programs in neuroscience that are still accepting applicants. Some in this thread have already recommended a few programs which I am looking into. If none of those pan out, then i'll spend the summer re-taking courses I failed and try to apply for an MS in fall 2016 (as i mentioned earlier). In the meantime, I have to re-consider living conditions (Boston's a shit place to be a renter), jobs, and how to break the news to family and friends. I wouldn't call this a new opportunity- it doesn't feel new at all. I also maintain that 50K isn't a small amount of money.

50K is not a little amount of money. And I still have at least 40K of debt already to pay back. I just want to see how many paths there are, more options are good regardless of how much it may cost. But will paying 100K or more for a MS program be the best route? More to the point, I doubt that how much I spent on an MS will factor in PhD admissions. Its really hard to get information on MS degrees in this field, which is why I'm asking here in the first place. A part of me is considering taking summer courses of all the undergrad courses I failed, then applying to MS programs for next fall. Either that or apply to a rolling MS program in Biology/CS and see if I can get admitted this year.

I have tried. No dice. I asked the Tonegawa lab and the Fee lab, got interviews, and no job. I know of no one at MIT who has ever admitted a lab technician to become a PhD student in the same lab.

Last 2 years or the last 60/90 units had a GPA of 2.8. I cannot get into the lab I was working in because first, the position no longer exists because the funding does not exist any more for it. Second, it was only a support staff position and not a staff research job; I never worked on my own projects but I did work with other staff researchers and post docs on their projects.

I think the more straight forward ones have a better way of telling me to not apply. They ignore my e-mails. I had a correspondence with a guy at Columbia University. He also went to my alma matter and understood why my GPA was so low. Unfortunately he was very non-committal to helping me get in, I assume because he was unsure if he could afford to hire a grad student this year.

I meant to indicate that in addition to the advice I got from my mentors, I also paid $120 for an academic advisor/career counselor who understands graduate admissions, and gave advice on how to best address it. Obviously it wasn't well spent. Do you know of any who might be better, and might not rip me off again?

Considering how awful people make out the academic job market, will i even have a choice? What if I finally do graduate and find that I don't want a tenure-track job, will I have the flexibility to find other acedemic postions? I personally would enjoy some sort of tenure-track job at a 4 year University teaching 6-8 courses a year. I could change my mind in gradschool; depending on how easy it is for my ideas to get published I might enjoy research better and would find a position with a heavy emphasis on research.I would like to one day find a job with the perfect mix of teaching and research but I have the feeling I might never even make it to the first year of a masters program. My worry now is how to get into a program in the first place and I feel that this kind of discussion is not helpful, at least not right now. If it would make it easier for you to suggest something more constructive, then assume I wish to chase after external dollars and spend long hours in a lab as an academician. Also, would it be wise to ask my recommends for a copy of their letters? I would like to see exactly how good/bad the letters were but I also might need to ask the same people to write letters immediately if I want to apply for some sort of degree program this year. People told me that a low undergrad GPA isn't ideal, but also not a career killer.

I apologize if i seem abrasive, I just don't like repeating myself and I don't like being treated as if I don't know what sacrifices mean and have never made them before. Also, I can be a very stubborn person which might be very frustrating for some people. I appreciate your patience, just not your admonishment. I have no illusion that it might take 15-30 years before I hold any kind of academic post at this rate. I don't think its a surprise I didn't get into MIT. I've talked to the MIT faculty including the head of the admissions committee. I already had been advised that it was generally not a good thing to have research experience nor degrees from from BA to PhD from same institution. Many admissions committees right now are hyper-aware of the dismal job market and are making decisions that they feel will best-equip their students to find academic jobs. Staying in one institution for too long is not something you would want to explain. At least that is what was told, this could be their very polite way of telling me not to anticipate any favors. Still, no one told me to not to apply and I had to try anyways on blind hope and foolishness. The rejection from MIT is not so bad as finding out that that I can not work on a PhD this fall, period. I imagine going back and asking the faculty again will be awkward but might give good feedback. I'll give it a try when Boston starts to melt.

Read my signature.

UC Davis I assume? Unfortunately the deadline for the neuroscience program has passed at that school. I could try another field that might accept on non-priority (psychology might still have space) but I would like more input if that would fix anything. At this rate, I fully anticipate being far past the prime age for making any great discoveries in my field by the time I enter a PhD program.

I didn't explain it well in that blurb and I didn't calculate properly. I took 2 grad-level courses in neuroscience at Harvard Extension School (both As ), one neuroscience summer course at Friday harbor Labs (A). I also I took an undergrad course in physics and only got a B- for both semesters. I was told to take physics since I didn't do so when I did my bachelors. All together roughly its (3.6+3.6+3.6+2.5+2.5)/5 = 3.16 for all post-bacc courses. Another question, do most masters programs come with teaching duties? I was under the impression that most terminal degrees do not require this nor do they offer much in terms of financial assistance from the program. I dont find your words discouraging, its just discouraging that I had to consider this now instead of earlier before I wasted 3 years in Boston. According to my doctor the problem has been fixed, its just a matter of getting into the program in the first place (and getting the money to payfor it).

So it seems the consensus is for me to apply to a masters program. I don't know if its the only way but it might be considering circumstances. I have some trepidation for applying to a masters program in neuroscience. I've tried this before, 3 years ago before I got the job at MIT. I applied to 5 masters programs in the US, Canada, and UK, all were rejected. I fear that either my grades still affected me or that my background simply does not qualify me to study neuroscience. I might have to choose a program that does not do research, does not require research expereince, and does not have a minimum GPA or even requires a GRE; at least it will be easier to get into. Problem is, most of those kinds of school do not offer neuroscience. Does anyone know if the school or type of program matters? If I get high marks completing a masters degree at a low-level program in a different field (like biology or psychology) will it matter to a neuroscience admissions committee? I'm also considering doing a masters in computer science or bioinformatics, I have an interest in computational neuroscience and it was something related to what I did at my technical job at MIT.

To me, 3.3 GPA at an Ivy league school is not the low end. If it is, then I've hit the marina trench of a graduating undergrad GPA. Also, out of curiosity, exactly how much coursework did you take? Did you ever ask how low? This is the most depressing part. I had literally strangers from Harvard look at my transcripts and say "its not that bad" when likely the adcom would have thrown the whole application in the trash. For once, the internet people were right. I'll look into these, thanks. Read the last sentence in my first post.

Everything has shutdown in Boston but the cable and phone lines still work fine. I doubt the department admin needs to be in his office to send a few e-mails.

And this is why I should not have listened to the professors I've talked to. Every school I've applied to and every PI and admissions department I've talked to told me the exact same thing "We look at your entire application and with solid research experience we might make exceptions for a low undergraduate GPA." Its unlikely I will ever know exactly why I didn't make it this year, though as some of you will notice it is probably the undergrad GPA. I've tried to explain it as best I can (just say it involves SSRIs). I spent tons of money and hours for my SoP, GRE, and got some solid recs from good professors. Though admittedly, no one even tried to discourage me and I don't know what's holding them back. The whole point of the job at MIT was to get research expereience, I'm not sure if more will help. And, more to the point, that position is gone now and I doubt anyone would want to hire me. I'm too old the NIH and OSHU post-bacc programs, they both only accept students who have graduated in the past 2 years. The only option I can see now is a masters degree in biology or psych. I need to be in a program now, I cant waste another year applying for next fall; so far I cant find any masters in neuroscience that has rolling admissions. It will be tough for me to afford it though, I'm still paying off my undergrad loans. I'll probably be in my 30s by the time I get into a PhD program.

Ah yes, credentials: Undergrad: Private Liberal arts college, B.A. class of 2011 Major: Biology Minor: Mathematics (no real computer science minor) Undergrad GPA: 2.3 Position in Class: No clue, there is no ranking system at the college and everyone in my class thinks they have the worst grades. Post-bacc GPA (grad school level extension school programs): 3.3 GRE: 161 math (93%), 165(97%) verbal, 5 (88%) AW Quant-related coursework: Statistics, computational macroeconomics, data-structures and algorithms Research Experience: 3 Years at MIT as a research technician in a neuroscience laboratory, 2 publications as a middle author, and some summer programming experience in bioinformatics with 1 middle author publication. Awards/Honors/Recognitions: none Pertinent Activities or Jobs: Odd jobs as a tutor, signator for brewing club, SCUBA certified, better traveled than Rick Steves Any Miscellaneous Accomplishments that Might Help: Miscellaneous? Special Bonus Points: On good personal terms with Dr.E Boyden and Dr.K Tye. Reccomendation from Dr.A Graybiel. Took 2 grad courses at Harvard Extension School and one Summer lab course in electrophysiology at UW Friday Harbor Lab. Letters of Recommendation: 2-3 letters from my workplace and one from a course professor at Friday Harbor Labs.

I need some advice from strangers since the advice I got from friends, family, and mentors seems to have not gotten me very far. So I applied for PhD Programs in Neuroscience or Neurobiology for Fall 2015: 15 programs with a mix of reach/likely/safety schools. And as of now, I've learned that there are only 2 programs that have not either outright rejected me or that have not selected me for an interview (I am going with the assumption that if I was not selected for an interview, I will not be admitted to the program). Odds are, I will not be admitted to these remaining PhD programs. I have committed everything I have to this, and I really did not have any backup-plan should I get rejected from every program. So I need to figure out what to do from here. What should I do from now on to get into a PhD program in the future? Should I be looking for another lab tech job? (had been one for 3 years) Should I apply for a masters program? (and if so, does anyone know of any which accepts students year round?) What could have went wrong? My choices were probably too much reach and not enough safety. Is it worth trying to apply again for different programs next fall? Assuming my credentials do not change with thing the span of a year. I am willing to listen to any frank voices. But I do not need advise on another career. I have thought long and hard about it, yet my ambitions have not changed. I want to be an academician and still really like the field of neuroscience. I do not think I could be happy with another career.

Is it advisable to e-mail POI at this point? I've gotten one interview request very early on, but the letter was so vague;I didn't know what he meant by "If you are visiting campus, I would like to talk with you". I actually went to the university and was snubbed by the secretary saying that the PI meant during the interview process later on. Its been 3 months and I don't know if I should have replied to clarify. It certainly doesn't help that I never got any interview requests from any school, period.

Neurobiology and Behavior is part of the GSAS, I think you're probably correct though. No "interviews" but they do send out invitations to the Open House event. I'm obsessing over details.

It says so at the very bottom of the Columbia GSAS admissions faq: gsas.columbia.edu/faq Perhaps they were talking about the open-house event but I'm not sure if its part of the admissions process or just something for admitted applicants.

I dont get why there are so many interview results from Columbia U in NY. From what I understand, interviews are not part of the application process for the neuroscience program. Are they faculty interviews?

Happy New Year to you future neuro PhD prospectees! Congrats to those who have been called for interviews. To a New Year filled with possibilities for career advancement and hope for an acceptance letter to the program that fits you the best!