Thorongil

Would those courses be for beginners? And do people take those courses at the MA level or the PhD level? I've taken the equivalent of two years of German as an undergrad but I've only retained and was taught just basic conversational German, not to mention the fact that I'm not a good language learner to begin with. I've always struggled with learning them. I'm going to WMU. I haven't been assigned an adviser yet. Edit: Put it this way, would I be fine applying to PhD programs with just my two years of undergrad German? Or should I take something (be it German, Latin, or w/e) while getting an MA?

Well, my interest is in Schopenhauer's philosophy and its relation to Vedantic philosophy, Buddhism, and Christian mysticism and negative theology (and of these things with each other). I'm also interested in asceticism and pessimism as found in these traditions. So I know the zip code but not the street address of what I would do a dissertation on and can imagine the title would read like "Schopenhauer and X," where X would be something to do with one of those aforementioned things, like another author. Based on this, is it safe to say I should be able to read German (because of Schopenhauer) and then one other language that fits with X (which might be Sanskrit or Latin, for example)? If so, because I am beginning an MA program in religious studies in the fall, which of these languages should I focus on? German or X (once I decide what that is)? I was thinking I might do Latin, should I decide to make X be Christian mysiticsm/negative theology, which I am leaning towards, and then try to buff up on German again once I'm in a PhD program. How long does it take to get reading proficiency in a language?

That's why I never applied to PhD programs and am doing an MA right now. A PhD is over two and a half years away, a dissertation even longer than that. My question is about what I should be doing right now while doing an MA. So is my Latin scenario a good one? I'm only concerned about what I will need to get into a typical PhD program. I assume I'll be able to take classes on other languages I may need once I'm accepted to a PhD program, but for right now, I'd like to know what is essential at the MA level.

I'll probably have to ask whoever my adviser turns out to be, but what if one is unsure of what one's "primary research area" is going to be? What if one's research interests straddle many different languages? For example, what if I'm comparing a Buddhist text with a Christian text by means of a German philosopher's philosophy of religion? Depending on the Buddhist text, it could be Pali, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, or Japanese. The Christian text would probably be in Latin. And the German philosopher's text would be in German. What if there's some really great scholarly articles in French and Italian that have to do with my research as well? Would I learn them too? The language proliferation seems absurd and unnecessary considering what people in this thread say that languages are used for. It's a case of "well, we, your esteemed professors, had to learn all this superfluous stuff when we did PhDs, so you do too!" Once again, "reading proficiency" sounds an awful lot like code for "fluency." If I can read somebody like Kant in the original German or an article on him in the same language, then I'm far, far beyond the level of ordering a sandwich on a Munich street corner. I mean, come on. It would take years for someone of my ability to get to that level and yet people here act like all one has to do is just pick up a book, read it in one's spare time, and voila, complete mastery. Here's a scenario: what if I just take Latin as one of my electives at the MA level? I take it all two years. Would that be enough to make me "proficient?" Latin is, of course, by and large, a reading language and it would fit at least one aspect of my interests. Would that be enough to get into a PhD program in religion?

How does one acquire a reading knowledge of a language as opposed to the conversational knowledge they teach as an undergrad? How is the former not simply damn near fluency? Are there classes designed for reading texts only? I'm really wondering how I will find time to study what I'm supposedly there to study for a PhD if I'm learning two languages at the same time and all just so I can possibly read some article in the secondary literature that hasn't been translated. What a colossal waste of time. As I said, if I'm going to learn a language, I would want to learn it completely. I was thinking about taking Latin and going as far as I can with that because that language interests me and fits my interests fairly well. German and French are completely uninteresting to me as languages. So what would you advise me taking at the MA level?

What should one do at the MA level in religious studies? I don't believe my program requires a language, but should I take language classes anyway? I did one year of German in undergrad (with one semester abroad, so that made it count for two years of German in terms of credit hours). I haven't touched the language since and so basically only retain a conversational ability. I took French all the way back in high school. I think I'm a pretty poor language learner. I never made As, and in the German grammar class I took I got a C-. Language classes are like math for me - something I dread and avoid like the plague. I also don't see that it will make one iota of difference in my research. I feel that if I'm going to learn a language, which is a massive time sink, I better damn well go full monty and become fluent. This half assed "learn only so you can pass a stupid test that the department requires" to me is a gigantic waste of time and money. All the texts that I could ever hope to do work on have been excellently translated so far as I can tell. I'll leave it there, however, lest this turn more into a rant.

Mysticism, asceticism, pessimism, and the philosophy of Schopenhauer.

Still not a word from Kansas. Someone told me they might be sending out notices over a week ago now. It's really getting down to the wire here.

Kansas sure is taking a while. Not sure what's going on there.

Rejected by HDS as well. But I did get a smallish funding package from Western Michigan. I don't know about the cost of living in Kalamazoo, so it's still up in the air for me I guess.

I might add that I have been accepted for some time to Colorado Boulder, with no funding, along with Western Michigan, where I'm not sure on the funding yet. I've also been accepted into an English program in my home state, which is my fall back.

I would be down with that, my friend. Reading through this thread, however, it's still looking pretty grim. Even in the community housing option, money for rent, etc will have to come from somewhere, either loans as someone said (a most unwelcome prospect) or a job (which I wouldn't know the first thing about where and how to obtain). I know Chicago will require me to send my FAFSA to them, and on FAFSA I did check the box for work study. Does anyone know the chances of getting that and how much it pays?

My main concern is how to pay for the cost of living. They cut my tuition in half. That's good, certainly better than nothing. The other half I will have to take out more loans for. Let's say I'm fine with that and decide to accept. Where, then, will I get money to pay for rent, food, etc? So far as I can tell, they don't seem to offer any basic stipend. I assume I would have to get a job, but where would I find one that pays enough for me to live and attend school full time? This acceptance is a double edged sword for me. Even if I am accepted, which I am, it seems like it would be impossible to go. Edit: They do appear to have stipends, but they only give them to one person, and I'm clearly not that person.

Chicago just accepted me with 50% funding as well. Maybe I should make a separate thread about this, but what is the opinion on doing an MA with only partial funding? Is that wise or not? I have been accepted into another program in my state in which I will probably get full funding, but it's much less prestigious than a place like Chicago (and not in religious studies but in English).

Articulately and persuasively put. I think I will heed your advice.

Should I perhaps drop them then and only apply to MA programs? That seems to be the general drift of the replies in this thread. I suppose I was under the impression that applying to PhD programs is always better because of the funding. But maybe that isn't a good idea for me because my interests are so broad right now.

What else am I supposed to say? Thank him for an obviously patronizing response? If people want more information about me, I'm happy to give it to them, but not when they ask me in such a deliberately patronizing way. His silly little analogy, the damning of my interests as "vague" (he even has the balls to say they're not "literary"), and his rather obvious insinuation about paper length are all clearly meant to bait me, which was further confirmed by his most recent reply. I created the thread, not him. He first responded to me, not the other way around. So he could have set a respectful tone with his post, but he didn't. My only fault is perhaps in replying to him, which was a big mistake apparently. Despite this, I can say that all will be forgotten if he gives me a serious reply. These cat fights are such a waste of time, when all I really want are some opinions on my questions. Thank you for the advice peppered in your response as well. I will look up Duke and Notre Dame right now. I might ask about the latter, though, whether they would mind non-religious people applying. I know Chicago and Harvard don't care, but Notre Dame seems more iffy to me.

Yep, you caught me! I'm just a rude, entitled, passive aggressive snowflake. Now that that's out of the way, do you have anything of substance to add to my thread or are you just going to bait me with more patronizing garbage?

Yes, I know about the humanities MA at Chicago. For a long time, I thought "this is the program for me," but then I discovered, reading the funding information, that it was little to non-existent. So I have tried to find MA programs that are funded mostly at big state universities. I will probably still apply to Chicago, though, but to the divinity school instead. If you or anyone wants to see my full list and scrutinize it, here it is (the majority are in English, but you'll notice I have religion programs on there too, which I think would be a good fit for me): Kent State University - MA in Literature and Writing Miami University (of Ohio) - MA in Literature Michigan State University - MA in English University of Oklahoma - MA in Literary and Cultural Studies Purdue University - MA in Literature University of Tennessee - MA in English University of Oregon - MA/PhD in English University of Missouri - MA/PhD in English Missouri State University - MA in Religious Studies Western Michigan University - MA in Comparative Religion University of Denver - MA in Religious Studies Florida State University - MA in Religious Studies University of Florida - MA/PhD in Religious Studies Maybe Chicago Divinity School and Harvard Divinity School.

I had perhaps assumed that literature and English degrees were the same thing. I know that comparative literature is its own separate discipline, but are you saying that the former two are different as well? Many of the MA titles which I will be applying to say "Literary Studies," Literature and Culture," and the like. I have been researching mostly by the faculty interests to see if I would be a good fit, not necessary by the degree title.

Well, I don't particularly like the slightly combative and patronizing tone your post and others have exuded. I had never heard of this forum until very recently and thought I asked some pretty straight forward questions, to which I have received some answers, albeit grudgingly. If a mod wants to delete this thread or my posts, he or she can feel free if it doesn't contain the sort of questions I should be asking here.

I see. This is a very helpful post. I suppose it's a good thing I have mostly planned on applying to MA programs then. Many thanks.

I don't think you read my post carefully. I said I already have a degree, which means this year is a gap year for me, in which I have been working outside of school. Secondly, I explicitly said in this thread that the majority of the programs I'm applying to are MA programs. I have maybe 3-4 out of 12 that include the PhD. I don't mean to sound rude, so don't take this the wrong way. I apologize if I wasn't clear.

My true interests are probably in philosophy, but I don't want to apply to philosophy departments. I'm very poor at symbolic logic, which they all require, and there are far less of them than literature departments. Plus, the interests I gave you could translate to several different niches within literature departments. There are, for example, the English mystics (Cloud of Unknowing guy, Hugh of St. Victor, etc), the pessimistic Romantic and Victorian poets and novelists (Byron, Melville, Conrad, etc), and lots of other writers I could do work on.

Well, as I said, I do already have a list of 12 programs which I will likely apply to starting this week. I just found this forum and thought I'd pose the question in case I might have missed out on any programs I haven't already found, since it's hard finding professors with my interests (well, outside of the Harvards). Most of the schools I've found require an MA before the PhD, but I have found a couple that are hybrids. I thought it would be the opposite, actually. But to answer your question, I plan on going all the way and become a professor, and this with the knowledge of the job market, etc. Thanks for the tip on writing sample length.