[Switching departments within same school.]

Why can't you just fake it in Department A? Go to the weekly seminar, do occasional social things, etc. Also, be open to the idea that the geniality and radicality of a department can change as new students come and others graduate. My own department went through a period of time where radicals and anarchists were in the majority, though at the beginning and end of my PhD that wasn't the case. You may find that the incoming cohort brings people who are more your type in Department A (and the inverse could be true about Department B). I would just keep this in mind and not write Department A off entirely. There's some reason you went there in the first place, after all.

Yes this does seem like the best course of action... but I'm just not sure how much I would offend either department by doing so. I might make myself an outsider in Dept A and then never-fully-integrate in Dept B and lose out on the benefits of both. I guess it's very school and department specific. I'll have to do some more research into the culture of it all...

What does "more radical" mean? Is that code for "telling it is?"

I mean it literally: Dept B is more invested in radical (leftist) politics in terms of content, form, and methodology. Dept A, much less so, if any. In fact, many of the more radical professors have jumped from Dept A to Dept B over the years... one that I'm working with currently is apparently trying to make the switch.

[Switching departments within same school.]

 

Have you considered formally being a student in Dept A but doing all of your research and courses (as much as you can) in Dept B? You can hang out with people in Dept B, network with superstars in Dept B, etc. At my school, this is totally possible---the only difference between you and a student in Dept B is that you would follow the course requirements, quals exam, candidacy exams and thesis defense formats of Dept A and your final degree will be from Dept A, not Dept B. However, we have students formally enrolled in the Chemistry program work with people in the Planetary Science dept to study chemistry of planetary systems. These students are basically only Chemistry students "on paper"---they work in the Planetary Science building with the rest of us, take elective classes with us, TA our courses, present at our student seminar series etc. It's only the formalities (exams etc.) that separate them from us.

I considered this and it would certainly be the easiest course. I wonder how Dept A would think about me as a student then if I'm just their student in name and don't actually engage or do much with them as a "community." That's kind of what I'm scared about in terms of bridge burning.

Is Dept B ranked over Dept A because you may run into problems if you are reapplying if it is more popular etc. Also who would give you recommendations? I would recommend looking into building a joint committee, doing a masters in the other field, taking classes etc. When you apply for jobs they will look at your dissertation committee more than the department you are coming from.

I wouldn't say it's ranked over... they're probably about equal although Dept B is much, much smaller so that might be a concern. Joint committee definitely sounds like something I'd want to do. Thanks for the tip off on that!

[Switching departments within same school.]

Using throwaway account. Basically, I'm wondering if many people do this and, most importantly, how to do this without burning bridges.

I applied and was accepted to Dept A under a more old-school field. I want to join Dept B, which is affiliated with Dept A because they're more radical and also align a bit better with my current interests.  My school encourages a lot of cross-contamination between departments, so I could very well just take classes in Dept B while staying in Dept A. 

Here are some important considerations:

- Both humanities departments.

- Dept B has a much better placement rate than Dept A

- I have full-funding from Dept A and probably would with Dept B too but when I spoke to the current chair, he said I would probably have to reapply.

- I don't want to throw off my progress too much (I'm only in my first semester) so I do want to make this decision quickly.

- The superstars in the field in Dept B are way more relevant to me than the ones in Dept A.

- The cohort in Dept B seems way more genial and radical than in Dept A, which frankly seems a little stuffy and conservative. 

- Dept A and B, while affiliated, also seem like they're at odds with each other (whispers of rancor and drama between faculty.)

I don't know. I feel a lot of guilt and anxiety... I got into this school from the wait list and my advisor in Dept A was also head of the admissions committee and I really feel like he took a chance on me. I really feel like I'd burn a lot of bridges if I left Dept A behind but I also really think I'd be a lot happier. 

Anyone have any advice or experience with this kind of thing? I've been stressing out so much about this for the past couple of months. Any perspective would be great appreciated. Thanks in advance! 

[Taking Course with Adviser--Necessary?]

Thanks! Embarrassingly, I've had three dreams in the past few weeks about taking a course with this rockstar prof so I'm definitely taking it as a sign.

 

I'm entering as an early modernist but this course is in theory, though, so I hope it doesn't seem like I sold myself as a different type of scholar than I really hope to be. I will be taking this course over another one offered in Shakespeare as well... but then again I'm not a Shakespearian and I'm not into drama either. I'm not sure who I should be making these rationalizations to.

[Taking Course with Adviser--Necessary?]

I feel unnecessarily torn up about my course selections for my incoming semester. I totally want to do a course outside my department since it's being taught by a rockstar scholar in my field of interest but I also think it would look bad if I didn't take the course being taught by my (appointed) adviser. Thoughts?

[Considering applying to PhD in English for Fall 2016 or Fall 2017?]

what has changed exactly since you last asked for advice and ignored all of it?

[Who else is feeling crazy emotional right now?]

So you're expressing dislike of people considering opinions from others that may or may not be relevant when making one of the biggest life choices ever by...expecting these people to consider your opinion that may or may not be relevant...

Okay.

"Dream school" =/= right choice. They aren't gross, selfish, or awful by carefully considering their opinions instead of pouncing on an acceptance out of emotion/excitement.

 

not expecting anyone to consider my opinion... just saying that there's a lot of selfabsorption in the room. how quickly we forget what it's like to be on the torturous waiting end! these are the kinds of attitudes that carry forward into academia and shows how profs can completely guiltlessly put applicants thru hell during app season.

 

apply your very powerful brain for a day or two, consult everyone you need to consult, and make a decision. because of this dawdling and "WEEEEE I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DOOOOO HEE HEE!" some people will have to make the tough choice of turning down offers to gamble for a wait list offer that may come after april 15. 

 

it's awful.

[Who else is feeling crazy emotional right now?]

It's a big decision, one that affects the rest of your life.  They have earned the right to not take their decision lightly and their deadline is April 15th.  

 

 

It's a big life decision! I personally made my official decision and notified all schools relatively early on, but I don't blame people who put off deciding for a while. Where you decide to go to grad school likely decides your entire career trajectory, that decision shouldn't be taken lightly. I'm sorry you're waiting on decisions from schools, but it's not productive to demand that strangers on the internet make huge life decisions hastily for your benefit. (in fact, it might not even benefit you; many departments end up not accepting people off the waitlist.)

 

yaaa no.... people in this thread are saying that "they know they should pick their dream school" but insist on being neurotic and beating the question to death by asking everyone and anyone their opinion. even when all of those opinions align with "pick the dream school" these people STILL don't decline offers. you people are gross, selfish and awful.

[Who else is feeling crazy emotional right now?]

seriously? you all got into your "dream school" yet you still drag it out your decision until april 15? so unneccesarily cruel to other applicants. 

[Writing 'bootcamp' suggestions?]

"Their journey took...well, let's say the standard country is like the size of a state--it's going to be like 200 miles across. Now a horse can cover about 25 miles per day, more if they change horses, less if they don't, so we'll go at a pace of 20 miles per day, which means they should get there in 10 days, but we'll slightly inflate that because it's a sedate pace, and they should get there in two weeks."

 

Haha you're amazing. 

 

Yeah I think it's screen-shock a bit. I try to print out and read it there as much as possible but long papers tend to get much more unwieldy. 

 

Thanks, I'll definitely look at the school I'm entering for a writing intensive summer class!

[Writing 'bootcamp' suggestions?]

I know there's lots of brilliant rhet/comp folks around here so I figured it'd be a good place to ask.

 

I'm kind of a terrible writer. It's shameful for someone preparing to enter a graduate program. I want to really improve my writing by making it clear, concise, and compelling. My main problem is that I get kind of lost in words when I'm staring at a wall of text on screen. Either that or I focus way too much on composing ideas rather than the writing itself.

 

Any suggestions for what I can do this summer to really kick it into high gear? TIA!

[Reputation Real Talk]

Hello Gradgrad, welcome to grad cafe! I can relate to your feelings about whether or not to be anonymous and the ramifications of that choice. 

 

It's difficult to address your question because I have no idea what you study. What is your field and area of interests? 

 

Like many folks have reacted, the English rankings from the US News are irrelevant to most people who identify with rhetoric and composition, writing studies, or technical communication. They are somewhat relevant, though, because so many of these folks work in English departments and contribute to the data that drives the US News rankings. Departments of writing are of course not included on this list at all, however. 

 

The scene for most graduate programs in the humanities is just very different from my discipline. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that writing studies programs are almost exclusively housed in land-grant institutions and also universities that began as normal schools. Graduates from programs that are housed in "low-ranked institutions" by US News standards routinely get jobs at fantastic universities ranking higher. There are so many reasons for this that I don't have time to reflect on at the moment, but the strength and quality of the graduate program itself is a huge factor, as is the kind of scholar that certain programs tends to produce, their dissertation advisor, their emphasis on teaching vs research, how they present themselves when on the job market, etc. 

 

This is a complex question, and none of what I've written is really all that helpful. What's important to remember is that your discipline, your values, and the context of research and teaching are things that I'd like to know more about before saying "don't go to the lower-ranked school" or something like that. 

 

Thanks for the super long reply! I'm kind of looking to get into cultural studies and I haven't much found rankings that sort into that category. It's been mostly by faculty reputation.

 

 

 

I think we're going into graduate study during a turbulent time for higher education in the US.

 

Some other people on the forums have mentioned some thought-provoking facts about rankings and PhD programs, and I think the takeaway is that no program is a sure shot at a career. 

 

This might be like comparing apples and oranges, but look at UC Berkeley's placement rate. 6/11 graduates are in postdocs or visiting assistant professorships. At Berkeley Rhetoric, 3/5 of their graduates have postdocs or lecturer positions. I know that postdocs are prestigious, so I'm not suggesting that their grads have postdocs because they "can't" find jobs. However, on the TT side of things, when I was researching the University of Nebraska, I believe they informed me of a nearly 100% TT placement rate. (One graduate had become an administrator, hence "nearly 100%") 

 

With the Internet and social media, literally anyone can become a famous author, an activist, or a scholar. I don't necessarily need a university's name to give me credence. While I'd love to do this the "traditional" way, I am not so sure this tradition is viable anymore. From my reading, I think the only viable way to turn a degree into a career is to market yourself more than your pedigree. Though a prestigious pedigree helps too, I'm sure. 

 

 

 

This. My undergrad institution, though it ranks in the top 40, places a huge emphasis on providing as much support as possible to its PhD students once they go on the job market, so their placement rate is really surprisingly strong. When I was talking with mentors there about which schools to apply to, two of them mentioned the fact that even top ranked UCs can't compete with the placement rates of some top 20 and top 30 private schools that place a stronger emphasis on placing their students. The sense I got from them was that you're sort of on your own on the job market if you graduate from a UC (I mean, you're probably on your own either way, but I'm sure more support can only help.)

 

All three of the poster responses above have been quite comforting to me (namely the idea that some "lower ranked institutions" have better placement rates than some top-tier schools). I'm assuming it's simply a matter of perhaps being able to coast on top-tier reputation for a bit but still working quite hard to get a TT position, while lower-tier might just be all gumption and hard work. I'm okay with those odds but when I do school visits I'm definitely going to play tough with my placement rate questions.

[Reputation Real Talk]

Well - obviously rank is a touchy subject for anyone associated with a particular school, so I think you're wise not to name names, and I'm going to follow your example. But I think there are a couple of different ways to see if a department "ranks" at a different level (either higher or lower) than the institution it's part of.

 

The first thing would be placement - does the English department at the school you're looking at regularly (or ever) place Ph.D. graduates at universities ranked higher than that school? (So - if the university is ranked #55, does the English department place students in the 40s and 30s? Or is there a downward trend?) If graduates are getting placed at higher-ranking universities than the one they attended, that suggests the department is stronger than the school as a whole.

 

The second thing would be faculty - where did they attend graduate school? Who have they published with/list in their book acknowledgements? How often are they cited? If a faculty member at Blah University studied under Professor GodKing Amazing at OMG College, chances are s/he will retain stronger connections and a higher reputation within the field than if s/he came to Blah University with a Ph.D. from Mediocre State - and these connections, of course, will be passed down to his/her students.

 

In general, I think, the overall rank of a school matters because the money, opportunities, and prestige offered by Schools #1-10 make the process of getting a graduate degree much easier - even in a field like English, where job prospects are dismal. I think most programs are "worth" attending in that they will offer challenges and opportunities to students - but prestige? That's a different story. Privilege is real. But it's a variable that changes with each publication, hire, retirement, etc... pedigrees, like currency, are always in flux. 

 

Ah jeez. I didn't even think of weighing the department against the wider school. The NRC gives rankings by specific department, though. 

 

And I had no idea where the faculty come from was particularly important. It seems like pretty much every school I look at nowadays, the faculty come from Berkeley or Yale. 

 

This isn't mentioned often when those rankings come up around this forum, but the NRC rankings floating around are over five years old at this point. Please keep that in mind when referring to them. Many professors have since retired/ moved on to greener/warmer pastures. 

 

They haven't updated the thing in five years? I guess it's the latest set of data out there, though, right?

 

I should note that the reason the NRC varies so hugely is because it uses a completely different set of criteria. For the S-Rank in particular, they survey a bunch of professors and students about what sort of qualities they would value in graduate programs in general, and then the surveying body (can't remember who) goes through and examines all graduate programs for those specific qualities. US News and Report pays much more attention to reputation, which, honestly, is a huge deciding factor in job placement. You're target university has all of the traits associated with successful institutions (diversity, helpful faculty, publishing faculty, collegiality atmosphere, or whatever was on that survey, which is half a decade old)--it's just not a "name." That's fine. The NRC thinks your target university has all of the best qualities an English department can possibly have. I think you can assess those qualities for yourself. If you're worried about going national or international, look at the school's placement record: if people have consistently had success doing just that despite coming from a "no-name" school, throw that worry out of the window.

 

That's a tough call... anyone else mind sharing which type of reputation they're valuing more? I guess it's not really up to me since I didn't get into a Top 10 school...

[Reputation Real Talk]

So, obviously a throwaway account because I know faculty and current students lurk around here. I'm not intending this to be a thread to dump maliciously on schools or anything, rather I would like to talk frankly about different schools' reputation/rank in theory vs. the real world.

 

One of the schools I've been accepted to traditionally ranks somewhat low (hovering near the bottom of the Top 50 of US News) but in the Chronicle rankings list I saw posted in another thread around here, surprisingly is pretty high up, especially compared to regional schools that are better regarded.

 

I'm wondering how people feel about schools like that: if it has a low rank/reputation to a wider/uninformed audience (ie. US news seems to represent a broad, general public type of consensus to me) but has a decent rep within the specific field of English (Chronicle), is it worth attending? I'm worried that even though it's somewhat well regarded, the name won't carry much currency if I go national or even international after graduating. 

 

As you can tell, I'm pretty mixed up in my feelings about this. Any input is welcome!