the17thscream

I made a similar fit vs. rank decision and choose fit. I also agonized over my decision between a huge #1/2 ranked program (X) with big name profs (though none in my subfield) and impressive/competitive grads and a tiny #9/12 program (Y) with two profs in my subfield (which is quite small) and chill/happy grads with whom I could actually see myself being friends. Coming from an Ivy undergrad, I am admittedly super competitive and probably would have done well in program X, but ultimately my loyalty lies in my subfield (extremely well represented at program Y), and I felt at "home" there. The professors I will be working with at Y took immediate interest in me and my research (which fits perfectly with their own) and spent nearly two hours discussing intersections between their stuff and my thesis. Contrastingly, the profs at X struck me as friendly but super busy; while they thought my research is "fascinating", my subfield is admittedly ill-represented at program X. As recommended by my profs at my Ivy undergrad (the grad program here is the primary competition of program X) my decision was based on the question, "Where will I write the best dissertation I possibly can?", and program Y was by far the winner. Besides its superior fit with my interests, it offered me more money (enough where I don't have to worry about debt or additional jobs) and had a nicer, happier environment. While I certainly feel some anxiety about my decision, particularly whether or not it will handicap me professionally to move from an Ivy undergrad, top ranked in my field, to a "lesser" program, I remain relatively satisfied/excited about Y. The program is ridiculously flexible, allowing me to tailor everything to my own interests, and even though it's small, the personal attention is unbeatable, particularly since the profs there already seem invested in me. I've spent four years orienting my studies towards making the academic institution happy, and now I'm ready to focus on myself and my research. That said, I fully intend to kick ass at program Y, using my competitive nature to rise to the top of the pile, all big fish/small pond style. ;-9

Ana (or anyone else in need of funding for NYU), I declined my acceptance, so hopefully, my scholarship $$ will go to you! That's right, guys, I ended up deciding to go to Bryn Mawr! I got to campus, and everything just clicked. Hertel and I spent the first 45 minutes of our 1.5 hour meeting talking exclusively about our research, and I've never met anyone whose research interests match mine so perfectly. The grad students I met with were awesome, in that I actually thought, "hey, I'd totally be friends with these people outside of school", and my field is very represented between Hertel and Saltzman. Other notes: --lots of academic freedom in that students choose not only their committee (profs on the committee can also come from outside the dept and from any affiliated institution including upenn) but also their pre-lim topics (must fit distribution reqs but can be any topic) --the speakers at the visual culture colloquia, held once a week, are typically chosen by the students (as in, you are researching, and you find someone whose work you're really into...you tell the colloquia programmers and they basically pay that person to come in, give a lecture, and have dinner with you) --no grades! Instead: written evaluations for every class that will actually help profs to write better and more substantive LORs (which are second most important to search committees after the dissertation) So, all in all, I'm really psyched. I love the IFA, and declining that acceptance was absolutely devastating, but BMC is a much better fit for me. I know that between being happier with the fit, not having to work, and studying under two people in my (generally underrepresented) field, I will turn out a better dissertation at BMC than at NYU, and that's what I based my decision on. (I'm totally going to be living in Philly though...the campus is beautiful, but if I had to live in the suburbs I'd go crazy!) Congrats to everyone else on their decision! I hope lots of late money is coming everyone's way!

I'm actually going to attend Bryn Mawr next fall for the art history PhD program, but I am definitely planning on living in philly (I'm coming from nyc and am completely a city person). I've never been to philadelphia though, so all I know is that I have to be near the R5 septa train and possibly near upenn since I will have access to their library and that might just be more convenient as a commuter. Any neighborhoods particularly good for a young small female type? Someplace with good restaurants, interesting culture, and that is relatively affordable on a humanities grad stipend? Do such things exist? (the latter certainly hard to find in nyc...) Any advice is appreciated!

CONGRATS lxs!!! You totally deserve it!

rising_star, Thanks for the advice...between a fantastic overall program with great professors outside of your field or a strong overall program with professors that are an excellent with your interests, which would you pick? I'm aware that my interests may change, but I don't anticipate it since I've been in the German art thing for 6 years now with shifts in interest remaining within my subfield.

Should I email BMC beforehand and tell them about the offer? I feel bad since I sent notice of my intent to accept their offer this morning--perhaps it is something better left to my visit tomorrow, but I also don't want to drop the bombshell when they are fully expecting me to come to BMC and create bad blood. I am postponing my final decision until I visit BMC tomorrow, since I will inevitably be comparing it to my NYU visit the whole time, and have no problem with turning down NYU if I really fall in love with BMC...

I'm honestly torn between the two. NYU typically does not fund first year students at all, and they seem to really want me. While I prefer the overall program at the IFA, Bryn Mawr has professors that are more appropriate to my specific field. Although the IFA is offering me full tuition, I know how difficult it is financially to live in New York, and Bryn Mawr's offer would ensure that I wouldn't have to work beyond perhaps a workstudy job in the library or something. On the other hand, the IFA is certainly a top rated program, and it is always at least somewhat of an advantage to have a big name behind a resume. Should I place more emphasis on the program or the professors? The funding or the prestige/placement? Should I email Bryn Mawr and ask them for more money? This new development has thrown me for quite a spin...24 hours to decide where to spend the next 7-10 years of my life!

I'm honestly torn between the two. NYU typically does not fund first year students at all, and they seem to really want me. While I prefer the overall program at the IFA, Bryn Mawr has professors that are more appropriate to my specific field. Although the IFA is offering me full tuition, I know how difficult it is financially to live in New York, and Bryn Mawr's offer would ensure that I wouldn't have to work beyond perhaps a workstudy job in the library or something. On the other hand, the IFA is certainly a top rated program, and it is always at least somewhat of an advantage to have a big name behind a resume. Should I place more emphasis on the program or the professors? The funding or the prestige/placement? Should I email Bryn Mawr and ask them for more money? This new development has thrown me for quite a spin...24 hours to decide where to spend the next 7-10 years of my life!

NYU just gave me full tuition...after I've essentially accepted BMC...SHIT. What the hell am I going to do?

...and I just got full tuition from NYU...24 hours to decide. ::freaking out::

Ana, April 15 is the standard decision deadline in the US. If you accept someplace without funding and then hear about funding from elsewhere, I have a feeling that most schools will be willing to release you from your initial acceptance, since money is always an issue, and no school wants pissy mutinous grad students. Here is a good article (for everyone, really) that really lays out your options: http://www.uni.edu/~gotera/gradapp/results.htm

Hi Ana, When I visited NYU, they did mention that they are hiring another modern prof for next year though they haven't decided yet. Thomas Crow did just move there, and he's absolutely amazing. I think the other major modern person is Professor Lubar, who struck me as very intelligent but also very candid to the point of being tactless. When I spoke with him he went on a whole anti-theory/anti-Columbia rant that was a little disconcerting. As for funding, according to the people I spoke with there, there is funding for a little over 50% of students in the second year and 80% of students in the dissertation stage. Apparently they determine the people receiving the award and then match money to that (the IFA is independently funded), and financial aid is based upon a combination of merit and need. Hope this helps!

Congrats on UMich, charis! You should definitely try and visit if you can, since you also visited BMC. After that, just write a list, literally, of the things you like and don't like about each and compare. It sounds stupid, but it really helps to see everything written down. Or, flip a coin. If you are unhappy with the result you get, go to the other place...in other words, go with your gut. BTW, luckily I kind of hated the advisor I would have at NYU even though I loved the rest of the program. He just spent the entire time badmouthing Columbia, and even though I agree with some things he says, if he can't say nice things about someone as respected as Krauss, then I fear what he would be like when advising my dissertation. Also our interests really didn't match up at all. But I do still prefer the program overall, so if I feel at least equally about BMC I will go there

Yeah, I don't have a driver's license either...yay boarding school followed by 4 years going to college in NYC...I've never been behind the wheel of a car. Not gonna lie, the idea of it is pretty terrifying to me.

Hi all, So I went and visited NYU...and I actually really really liked it. The professors are fantastic and approachable, the grad students are intelligent and friendly, and the building is beautiful; everyone who has decided to go there is very lucky indeed! Unfortunately, funding (or lack thereof) is certainly a huge issue for me. I brought up my situation, and they are looking into it. An increase in funding is "very possible" but by no means guaranteed, and it is very unlikely they will match Bryn Mawr's offer. The professor and admin I talked to both said BMC is an excellent program and they can understand how difficult the decision is. What I was less than impressed with: -apparently ALL students there work one or two part time jobs, and the jobs available at the IFA will only cover "food and books", not rent and tuition, so another part time job is necessary. At BMC I would not have to work beyond a work-study job in the library or something to pay for books/food (everything else would be covered by my fellowship) -grad students do not receive a huge amount of feedback from their professors--usually a couple of comments and a grade on written work (I only asked this because one of my profs here told me that it is standard to write pages of comments on student work and meet with students to discuss submitted seminar papers, etc.) -some, but not all grad students I talked to have trouble meeting with their professors whose offices may be downtown and who are jetting off to conferences all the time So this all gives me a lot to think about...I really love the overall program and the environment and the faculty, but unless I get more funding, it looks like BMC (which I desperately hope to fall in love with on Tuesday!). If I do get more funding, I'll be in a whole different boat...

charis, Yes, I'm literally visiting BMC on the April 15, so here's hoping I don't like NYU (I'm terrified that I'll love it)...

studentfromla, You are absolutely right. I am certainly leaning heavily towards Bryn Mawr, but what is stopping me from embracing it wholeheartedly is the prestige issue (also since the program is so small, but placement strikes me as quite erratic in terms of the types of places people end up), which manifests in the reactions of my professors at my undergrad Ivy. I've only gotten funding at non-super prestigious schools, so they ask my what my GPA is again and then, after I tell them, look very confused (these are profs who wrote my LORs and have read my PS, etc) and say, well, it's mostly about the dissertation anyway. Anyway, I'm visiting both places this weekend, and I plan to bring up the funding situation at NYU (they don't know about my other funding offers, and I have heard a couple of stories about people who have successfully negotiated funding after describing a much better offer at a different institution)...if I am successful I guess I will be in a whole different boat, as I do prefer the overall program at NYU.

Hey all, I'm in art history focusing on the rather small field of German art, and I have gotten it down to a choice between two institutions: A) NYU --super prestigious and highly ranked --great professors but no one I really click academically with (no germanists), though all are open to me pursuing my own interests when I'm there --little to no funding the first year with promise of funding if my work is up to par --prefer the overall program, which is large and has lots of options/opportunities in NYC --amazing city, wouldn't have to move, but very high cost of living Bryn Mawr --less prestigious but well-respected (I think?) --two professors (both germanists) whom I really really want to work with --full funding plus a fellowship/stipend renewable over 4 years --small program with lots of personal attention, but limited in scope (but my field is well represented) --just outside of a great city with a high but not as high as NYC cost of living My greatest concern with NYU is that the competition for funding, advisors, etc. might be distracting; my greatest concern with Bryn Mawr is that I'm coming from an Ivy league undergraduate institution, and I don't want the move from Ivy to smaller less prestigious program to handicap me professionally. I have talked to my advisors about both, and most of the advice tends to be "go where you will write the best dissertation possible", but as much as I'd love to believe that we're all being judged exclusively on our work, I'm afraid that just isn't the case... Any advice would be very helpful.

charis, I have spoken to two professors about the prestige issue. The first, the director of graduate studies in the German dept, told me that it basically all comes down to the dissertation, that plenty of people from great programs turn out weak dissertations and plenty of people from less well known programs turn out amazing dissertations, and the dissertation is what most search committees will judge you on. Certainly, coming from a big name school will get a committee's initial attention, but if the dissertation is only so-so, then this attention will not last very long. She recommended that I go wherever will allow me to do the best work I possibly can, if that's within a large prestigious program, great, if not, my work will speak for itself. My advisor, who's coming from the German university system, said that she didn't know very much about rankings and their effect on decisions in the US, as she always bases her recommendations for positions on the dissertation, and she recommended that I talk to other art history faculty here to get a better sense of where Bryn Mawr stands in comparison to other programs. There is one art history professor at Columbia who did her PhD at Bryn Mawr, though, so it's certainly feasible to attain an Ivy league tenure track position with a Bryn Mawr PhD. She also spoke very highly of Hertel and Saltzman's work, and said that at both BMC and NYU there are fantastic professors turning out fantastic work, but that doesn't really speak to the advising chops of any professor, and she is confused by NYU's split focus between academic types and museum/auctionhouse types. She also said (just between her, me, and this board) that many of the students who come to Columbia/any super prestigious program are surprisingly weak and that if I write a strong dissertation, I would easily be placed before them at any university worth working at. Prestige does remain an issue--an advantage or an obstacle depending on what program you are in--but in the end, solid work and sheer luck will ultimately be the determining factors in placement. Just some food for thought...

NYU can't even find a grad student to take me on a tour, so I'm on my own showing up at class and the profs' offices...I know it's like, one building, but it still would have been kind of nice to not have to grab a random student on the street to ask questions. This is not looking good...

charis, according to the random rankings I found online (http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/art-history) BMC actually has a decently high (75%) placement rate and is #9 among "small prestigious schools" (#12 overall), all of which probably means absolutely nothing... I'm actually going to be meeting with my advisor very soon to discuss (among other things) the whole prestige issue. I'll let you know what she says.

Hey All, So my thesis is finally DONE (92 pages of perfection written in 14 days with 30 hours of sleep!), and I feel like I've just given birth...to Hans Sedlmayr. The day after I turned in the thing, I received notice of BMC upping my funding package to include a considerable fellowship, and I cannot be happier! I am, however, planning on visiting both BMC and NYU this weekend, just to have a basis of comparison... stylefaxee, I know you (successfully) discussed funding with NYU--how did you bring it up, and with whom did you meet? I'm planning on sitting in on Prof. Westermann's methods of art history class, and I've also requested to meet with Prof. Lubar and ask how the hell I can do what I want to do within their program. (I'm way too intimidated to request a sitdown with Thomas Crow entirely so that I can drool over myself and blather nonsense) I'm pretty nervous considering NYU's competitive/cold reputation... charis, So glad to hear that it's likely we'll be at BMC next year! I will hopefully be visiting this weekend/early next week myself, and I kind of terrified since I have so much invested into the program right now (especially since they just offered me a lot more money), and I still have that undergrad intimidation of professors. We should definitely meet up though. PM me and we'll arrange something! lxs, I am so sorry to hear about your funding situation. One of my deans told me that you should never be paying for grad school (that is, the tuition--living expenses can sometimes be doable on a part-time job). It is important to talk to other grad students in a similar financial situation as you and to look at postdoc placement rates. Are there opportunities for funding following the first year? What are the rates for getting that funding? etc. ::sending big surprise funding vibes your way::

lxs, I am so thrilled for you! You absolutely deserve it, and CUNY seems to be a phenomenal fit for you. Since we're in the same field, I hope to meet you at several conferences in the future! emusinfrance, I too got an acceptance to BU, though I am ashamed to say that I don't know much about the program. I applied as an afterthought and while there is a professor there that fits my postwar German interests, there isn't really anyone who does anything with 18th and 19th century German aesthetic theory (as opposed to BMC where there is a professor perfectly fitted to each of my main areas of interest). I'm still waiting to hear back on funding from BU, and unless it is greater than the funding BMC offered me (full tuition but no stipends), I'll probably not go there. But any information you find about BU, please pass it on! charis, Please let me know how you find BMC! I unfortunately can't visit before April 15 due to financial/time crunches. I'd also love to meet up at some point (I'm up at Columbia). Are you planning on living in Philly or Bryn Mawr? I am leaning towards Philly, since I am very much a city person (I'll miss NYC like crazy), but I've heard that it isn't as near to campus as the BMC website claims...The grad student I talked to a couple of weeks ago said that about half of the grad students live in Philly though, but she doesn't and therefore couldn't offer too much advice in that area. Otherwise she was ridiculously informative and very friendly. She said that just about every day a professor stops by her carrel to show her some article or give her some book just because they found it interesting. As much as I love NYC and my friends/professors at Columbia, it will be ridiculously nice to get away from the big research university atmosphere... ::7 hours of sleep since Sunday and counting...oh, senior thesis, how I love you::

charis, I'd be moving from NYC to philly as well if I go to BMC (which is seeming very very likely at this point). We should definitely talk! Also, please let me know if you decide on BMC, as I'd love to get there already sorta knowing someone. lxs, I really hope that it's your posting on the results page about an acceptance to CUNY...You certainly deserve it and are more than qualified for graduate study. I hope your bad run of luck has ended (or will soon)!

guys and hack, Thank you very much for the advice! I checked the Chicago MAPH topic (I only had the Art History program bookmarked), and while it seems I would love the program, I absolutely cannot afford more debt on top of my undergrad (damn you Columbia for turning all undergrad loans into grants STARTING NEXT YEAR). Bryn Mawr is perfect for me (ie: not one but TWO professors I am dying to work with) in everything except name, and I'm still struggling with the whole stupid elitist bullshit Columbia's instilled into me. However, although I've received admits to a few PhD programs, Bryn Mawr is the only one that seems to want me enough to provide me a full ride, and I need to stop with this "won't join any club that will have me unless it's an ivy" crap. It's giving me cold feet. As ya'll can probably tell, I'm very young (senior in undergrad right now), and I'll be the first in my family to complete a BA let alone pursue a PhD, so all of the advice is very very much appreciated.