the17thscream

Just received notice that while I'm not in UChicago's PhD program, they're offering me admittance to their (seemingly ridiculously excellent, unique, and attractive) humanities MA program (no funding, but it's only one year)...I've always had a serious soft spot for UChicago, and I have seen myself there for a long time, but it's stupid to pass on / defer my full ride Bryn Mawr PhD offer, yeah? Should I consider it a "soft rejection" like the no funding admit I got from NYU? The UChicago MA program (which provides an intense grounding in humanistic theory across disciplines) sounds absolutely fantastic, but it would be intellectual masturbation to go there instead of/before pursuing my PhD...right?

All of this talk about Rosand and Renaissance types is really making me miss James Beck--a fantastic teacher, scholar and human being. I was lucky enough to take a class from him (Italian Renaissance Sculpture) a few months before he passed, but I feel very sorry for his grad students (his passing was unexpected). Man, there are so many stories of "grandpa beck"...he would constantly do things like put the microphone on his jacket, take off his jacket halfway through the lecture and then ask his TAs where the sound went. Genius of a man, though, and very passionate about his hatred for restorers who don't do their homework and ruin the most amazing art (which he argues is meant to age hundreds of years, as the artist intended his work to last forever). Hence ArtWatch International. He had such great stories about arguing in Italian courts against restoring Michelangelo's David... Ah, nostalgia...

travelingartmuse, I'm still waiting on Harvard, UPenn, and UChicago...I'm not really holding my breath, particularly since all schools have already sent out rejections/acceptances, I think. My ego is a little bruised at the fact that I haven't gotten into any ivies whilst coming from an ivy, but I also recognize that as elitist bullshit. I'm confident that I'll end up whereever I need to be.

travelingartmuse-- I've heard great things about Rizvi, and I was in Murray's class on medieval cathedrals. He's a great man with a fabulous accent! Only problem was that the class was right after lunch, so when the lights are turned off and you're listening to Murray's ridiculously soothing accent, it's hard not to drift off at least a little (I always had to have a huge cup of coffee within arms reach for that class)...

travelingartmuse, what classes did you take at Columbia and when?

travelingartmuse and Renaissance08, Thanks for the advice! I did realize recently that I really don't *need* to be the next Meyer Schapiro (yes, we are obsessed with him at Columbia)--I would be perfectly happy with a tenure track job at some university where I like the location and the people. Which is not to say that I don't have ambition--I am very, very ambitious...but at the same time, I'm in this discipline because I love it and it makes me happy, not because I want to be Rosalind Krauss 2.0 (again, obsessed with her at Columbia, even though most students in the art history dept haven't met her). I've gotten disillusioned with the NYC galleries, having done several internships throughout undergrad, so no galleries in my future, and I'm not especially keen on museum work--too much bureaucracy from what I've heard, not that there isn't tons in academica. But ultimately what turns my crank is writing, researching, and teaching (there is something really beautiful about interactions between people who truly care about a topic). So at this point (and I'm still waiting to hear from three schools as well as about funding at BU), I think I am definitely going with Bryn Mawr. (!!!)

hi dontknowwheretogo, I might not be the best person to answer your questions, since as an undergrad at Columbia, I've grown very disillusioned and disappointed with the grad program to which I am only tangentially related. The professors here, for the most part, are dynamic, accomplished, intelligent, etc., and they DO care about their students. But yes, there is a lot of competition, and from what I can tell, as much as they care, most profs have very little time for students (though this could be primarily undergrads rather than grads). As an undergrad, I have taken only grad student lectures (not seminars) the past two years, and all of my undergrad seminars have included grad students. This is a common overlap between the last two years of undergrad and the first two years of grad school. There are indeed lots of students hanging around in the doorways of their profs, particularly since (depending on the prof) it is hard to set up an appointment outside of office hours, (usually a single hour once or twice a week, first come, first serve) which is really annoying if you have a class at that time. As for specific professors that are especially busy: Schama, Murray, and Ballon are especially busy professionally, younger profs like Grewe are going crazy trying to publish as much as possible, Joseph is paying his teaching dues as a new prof, but he doesn't seem to like students and is quite narcissistic (legitimately so--he's a rockstar), and I have yet to actually see Rosalind Krauss, even though I work with a lot of contemporary stuff and I've had to read her in just about every class I've taken. You will most likely have better luck with the Barnard affiliated professors (Higonnet, Deutsche, Kampen, Moxey), which is a more supportive environment in general, and some profs, like Rajchman are known to be fantastic advisors to individuals (in the MA program) but terrible teachers to classes (though admittedly easy graders). Are Columbia grad students a little orphaned from their advisors? It depends on the grad student. My impression is that if you are proactive (take lots of classes with your advisors, show up to their office hours a lot, etc.) you get a good amount of facetime, but you do have to work for it. The advisors will not come to you. Actually, the grad students strike me as being very unified and everyone seems to get along and socialize with each other. There does seem to be a grad community, though the PhD and MA people tend to be quite separate. It's a big program, but in a way it forces you to make friends with others, and I have yet to see a grad student treat another student in any way that is not kind and helpful. My TAs have all been either awesome or nonexistent. It really depends on the professor in terms of how much the TA grades papers/exams and how much they run discussion sections or even teach classes (many PhD candidates teach Art Humanities, a core intro to art history class all undergrads are required to take). And yes, there is a lot of competition for fellowships and funding, though no one seems to really talk about money very often. Columbia is an excellent program overall...its grad students and faculty are it's great strength. I just think that bridging the two is where most people run into a problem. Hope this helps, and feel free to PM me if you have any more questions. Again, I'm only an undergrad here.

Also, to people who are hearing a lot of bad news lately, DON'T GIVE UP! A friend of mine who is a grad at Columbia had to apply three years in a row, getting her MA (and engaged to a gorgeous and sweet Spanish man) in between. She is now working happily with the fabulous Cordula Grewe (even though she is taking undergraduate seminars since sometimes you have to do that at Columbia if you want extra facetime with profs). Anyway, she too didn't get in anywhere for THREE YEARS and is now in a top rated program with excellent funding. Also, those of you who have taken time to work and publish and get an MA will be infinitely better off in the postdoc job hunt, since you will have much much more work experience than those of us such as me, who are going in directly from undergrad and have never worked a full-time job except in the summer.

Renaissance08 and travelingartmuse, Thanks so much for the info on NYU IFA! I too was accepted without funding, and as an undergrad in NYC, I can't imagine living here owing $50,000 the first year alone...unfortunately like stylefaxee, my heart is saying one thing (NYU), and my head is saying Bryn Mawr (over BU, UIowa, and NYU). Hearing horror stories about INTERVIEWING FOR SEMINARS (god, I and thought the seminar application process at Columbia was annoying) definitely helps though, as does the ridiculous coldness of IFA whenever I contact them. Bryn Mawr has really been so much nicer to me--I emailed both NYU and Bryn Mawr requesting more information, since finances and time commitments prevent me from visiting. NYU sent me some form letter "Dear firstname lastname, We really recommend that you visit rather than request materials like this." Bryn Mawr hooked me up with a current grad student (working with one of the professors I'm interested in and who received the same amount of funding (full tuition but that's it) as I), and we talked on the phone for 2 hours last night. The grad student was way helpful and told me that not a day goes by that a professor doesn't stop by her carrel to say hi or show her an article or give her a book they just read. The grad students at Bryn Mawr are supposedly way chill and non-competitive, usually socializing together and babysitting each others' cats and the like, and the relationships with the professors tend to be very close and collaborative. Apparently there are only 3 or 4 new grads per year, and about 35 total (TINY!). Even the undergrads sound pretty awesome in that they apparently have a lot of respect for TAs and are very active and interested in classes (majors dominate the classes run by TAs), though it is very rare to be in class with an undergrad as a grad student (something rather unusual as compared to Columbia, where the last two years of undergrad I've taken only graduate art history classes). Also, fundingwise, the grad student said that she has never heard of funding going down--only up (as hers did after the first year). So maybe my heart is saying Bryn Mawr while my head is saying NYU, since I intuitively know I will be happy at Bryn Mawr, where there are not one but two profs that are perfect for me, and at least one or two courses per semester in my field (usual with German art), and the ability to take classes at 3 other universities nearby. But the name thing is still bothering me--it's hard enough to get jobs in academia and art history especially, and I don't want to handicap myself professionally by going from Columbia to less of a name. Stupid, stupid, I know. I think worrying about this is really just my way of procrastinating on my senior thesis...

lxs, Wow, our interests are ridiculously close! Your thesis proposal sounds really fascinating (I adore Klinger and symbolism, and the northern renaissance has so many tropes revived in the 19th century particularly in terms of nationalism, which is a main interest of mine). Cordula Grewe is my thesis advisor, and I've taken several classes with her. She is an amazing and dynamic professor, though advising-wise, she is often too busy to meet with me for more than about 10 minutes a couple of times a semester. The great thing about Cordula is that she truly loves her field, and you can really see the fire in her eyes when she talks about the Nazarenes. Unfortunately, as nice as she is, she isn't much on active guidance, though her comments (when she gets around to them) are always very insightful. Also, as an undergrad I always felt like I was competing with the 4 or 5 grad students that also make bids for her attention, and in the end, she is much more concerned with her own work, as is appropriate for a professor at a huge research university like Columbia. If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to discuss the other places I applied--it's certainly really difficult to find appropriate professors in a field such as ours...I found a few that I really adore, but for many it was a rather awkward fit, like you said. Cordula recommended Hertel to me, actually.

Hi lxs, I'm a German art type, primarily 19th and 20th century, though I also do a lot of work with 18th century aesthetic theory as well as postwar critical theory. Of primary interest to me is the influence of German aesthetic philosophy and art historical practice upon German art and cultural ways of seeing (I'm much more of a theory/art historical historiography person). At Bryn Mawr, I'm very interested in working with Christine Hertel (who shares my interest in the intersections between German visual and literary culture as well as in recurring theories of German art criticism and aesthetics throughout the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries) and Lisa Salzman (whose publications regarding postwar German art, particularly those concerning Gerhard Richter and Anselm Kiefer, have been major resources in my previous research positing Richter

Hey lxs, As an undergrad at an ivy school, I thought you should know that I applied to 5 ivies, and have gotten rejections from 3 (still waiting on two, but I'm not holding my breath). Honestly, I think that people who are coming from the top of their non-ivy schools have a much better chance of getting into ivies, even better than those (like me) who are coming from ivy undergraduate schools. The majority of the grad students I'm taking classes with at columbia are coming from non-ivies, and several of them got their MAs from non ivy schools in addition to doing the non-ivy undergrad thing. Though in the end, it's all a crap shoot that doesn't reflect upon your merits at all, but rather upon the perceived compatibility of your interests and the professors who happen to have open spaces for students. What I will say, as someone who has observed a lot of the grad program at columbia, is that big ivy league programs are super competitive, even after you are in, and the professors, while ridiculously intelligent and well published/accomplished, aren't necessarily the best teachers or advisors. All of the professors I have felt close to at columbia have been postdoctoral fellows who are only here for a couple of years and who are actually interested in teaching. The other professors here, while generally very nice, just seem to have too much on their plates with publishing/competing for tenure, and the result is not great for their grad students.

Hey guys, I'm new to the board and have recently received news of acceptances to NYU-IFA, UIowa, and Bryn Mawr. I'm still waiting on Harvard, UPenn, UChicago, and BU. Like Ana, I also got into NYU-IFA with absolutely no offers of funding beyond a miniscule summer fellowship, and my dealings with the director of graduate studies there have been somewhat...off. I emailed them with questions as to how students with similar packages manage, and all they said is that I should visit (I'm currently an undergrad at Columbia, so I can easily visit, but they don't seem to know that and assumed I had never been to NYC.). Personally, I'm torn because it is such a top rated program and the best I have gotten into thus far, rank-wise, but I absolutely don't want to commit financial suicide with their non-guaranteed funding game, and my dealings with the administration as a prospective student have been less than favorable. Bryn Mawr, which offered me a full ride but no stipends of RA/TA ships, gave me the contact information of a current student studying under one of the professors I'd like to work with (there are two that are doing exactly what I am into at Bryn Mawr). However I worry that I might be handicapping myself professionally by going from Columbia to someplace that is less of a name. As for UIowa, they offered me a $16,000 TAship but no tuition assistance with the request that I tell them about any funding offers I get from other schools, so they might willing to negotiate, but Bryn Mawr is giving me more money and seems to be a better fit for me anyway. If anyone could give me any advice on the situation, I'd really appreciate it...