StarvingStudentYeah

Was this the only M.A. that you applied for? I was initially going to apply to only PhD programs, but then when I started my research I discovered that I just didn't feel as prepared for that level as I'd like. I was a junior transfer into the psych program at my school, and though I think I could have been competitive it just didn't feel right for me. In fact, once I finish the M.A. at BC there's a one year M.A. at Harvard that I'm eye-balling doing before I start my PhD - hopefully back at BC. Anyway, I'm sorry to hear this is your only shot this year - I totally forgot you said that. Also sorry to have sounded negative about WM. The fact is, I absolutely LOVE them. They are the ONLY reason I haven't sent in the acceptance form, bought a t-shirt of a hoodie and cracked the champagne! I love their campus, I ove their tradition, and to be frank their M.A. program has launched the career of many luminaries in our field. Not to mention the fact that their faculty are by-and-large young, cutting-edge and about as innovative as they come. My negativity comes only from the fact that we're all being forced to wait so long. I know it was an extremely late deadline, but finding out right before the 4/15 deadline is just a bit crass, IMO. At any rate, I wish you all the luck and am sending out all the good vibes on your behalf that I can muster.

I'm 99% sure I'm off to Boston College for M.A. Mental Health Counseling which I consider a precursor to their PhD in Counseling Psych. Booking airline tickets for their open house in late April, and am told that funding will happen. I'm pretty stoked, good school, good town. I LOVE Boston and can't wait to get up there on the permanent and to get started. To the person who mentioned that it's daunting finding housing in Chi-town, same here with Boston. I'm sure we'll do ok, though. To the Northeaster M.A. know where you're gonna live yet? I'm thinking Brighton or preferably Brookline. I was told to avoid Allston if at all possible since it's a undergrad slum with far too many absentee landlords.

What does your gut say? I'd say in this instance, more than any I've read on this forum its important for you to follow the voice in your gut. Sounds to me like I'd do Politecnico di Milano. IMO that experience will set you off when it comes to apply for PhD programs. Renaissance people always do better in application processes than normal stat guys. Good luck!

It is cheaper, and you won't live beside a sorority/frat house. A lot of people do this. Pretty boring area, Athens itself has a nice chill, hippy sort of vibe to it. I'm getting ready to leave the area for my own grad school experience, but let me know if there's anything specific you need to know. I'm not aware of any landlords to avoid - never really heard anything bad in that way.

Yeah, it's getting pretty annoying. If the info they gave you is right it may still be 2 weeks? I'm hoping they promise late and then come in early. As it stands now though, it seems hard to imagine not going to Boston College anyway. I'm already starting to feel like a BC student, starting to feel connected to them, etc. I will fight to remain open minded though - especially since I really liked WM throughout the research phase of this process.

I sent this exact email to my assigned advisor at a school I was accepted at. I was very polite, told him I knew he was busy and that short answers were fine, etc. He responds with this fairly rude email about how email was not the right venue for such a discussion and that I should call him at his office. 1) Rudness from your potential adviser during your first correspondence from him/her is not a good thing. 2) I generally always prefer email to chit-chat on the phone. 3) Long distance is not a preferred thing for the starving student. In the end, this left a HORRIBLE taste in my mouth, and I ended up more or less eliminating that school at that point. My feeling of a generally grumpy/stingy atmosphere was later confirmed by some honest current student.

This would be an EASY choice for me, personally. UF is not a great school for undergrads, but IMO is an EXCELLENT top flight-research based university for graduate work in most any climate. The university itself has a great reputation among academics, and does a very nice job of placing many M.A. level grads at the top-choice PhD school. On the other hand, my experience in the northeast is the school where all the dumb NJ kids go after HS because they can't get into anywhere else, and besides a Kegger at Rehobeth sounds good. It's also where they say the rest of them end up in grad school after they can't get into Rutgers grad. I'm not saying that is my opinion, but rather than I have heard that anecdotally many times over in normal conversation. In summation, IMO UD has that rep all that way though whereas UF does at the undergrad level only. I don't recommend you put too much stock in our opinions though. Go with your gut. Email current grad students at UF to be able to compare them and their opinions to what you already know of UD. If you do good work, network, publish, and bust your hump you will get into a PhD program no matter where you go. The door is never really close, it just gets heavier and sturdier sometimes. Good luck!

I agree, the Psy.D is a very limiting option. I'd only consider that if you REALLY hate research and want to be considered more or less of a glorified M.A. level counselor - there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want, but then why do the Psy.D to begin with? That said, I know someone who completed the Psy.D through William and Mary and the Va. Consortium and seems happy with his career choices. I guess it really depends on the person - for me it is certainly not an option. My final destination is a PhD in Counseling Psych or bust!

Reminds the Texan: Bigger does not always mean better. :wink:

It's hard to assume that both schools are exactly equal since you really seem to suggest that you like the one in a new place better. If I DID assume that, then I'd say why move far away - go closer. I don't believe that's the case for you though. That said, I'd say go to the program that you feel in your gut is the one for you. I can't imagine anyone being shunned in any graduate setting because you have a partner. The fact is that some grad students are married, seriously involved, etc - it's not undergrad anymore after all. Yes, the youngest single ppl may group together, but their socialization schedule and reality should not in any way harm or impede you. There will be another group for people who are significantly involved. I just can't see this as that big of issue. Just because "some people" have felt like it was an issue does not mean that you will. At every grad program there are people who have this or that issue. You'll have some, but you'll not know what they are until you go. I have to say I feel like you'd get along fine. Good luck, I hope whatever you do rocks your socks!

I personally think it would be very poor form to take a position at a school you are luke warm about with the idea that if it doesn't fit you'll just schluff them off and attempt a transfer. For that matter, I find it EXTREMELY annoying when I hear PhD ppl get the MA and then walk. In essence, you have screwed the scool (they invested a lot in you) and the person who would have been in that slot and would have finished. Basically, it amounts to lying. IMO the only way you could morally go to the third choice would be to contact them and let them know that you were luke warm, and will consider transferring out at some point. If you tell them this is your attitude and they still want you then fine - otherwise you are being dishonest. I don't know what field you are in, but in my field and many I know about firsthand transferring from one PhD to another is HIGHLY frowned upon. One, it's not really a transfer, but more like starting completely over. Most PhD programs have a TINY cap on credits transferred into a PhD ~3-9 and the coursework generally needs to be basically exact with syllabi available for perusal. I know of program that will not consider a PhD who has already began work elsewhere. Another thing I find puzzling why anyone would apply to a school that once they're in they don't really feel good about. I only applied to schools that I'd be stoked to attend - there were seven of them. I was told to apply to more, but those are the seven I felt I would be thrilled to attend so those are the only ones that I applied to. I can understand minds change, but if you did your work when determining which schools to apply to I can't imagine what info came to light for such a change. Also, if you only applied to three programs - and only really liked two I have to wonder if you really love your field or if you just love the idea of going to those two schools. I mean, getting training in a field you love that not everyone can do should be a pretty exciting issue if you love your field - I can't see how only two schools in the world would be appropriate places for you to accomplish this.

Oh hey man, I can't tell you specifically, but there are definitely stores and whatnot around campus. Where there are students, there will always be places to buy bread. That said, it's definitely the type of place where you need a car to get places any distance away. Like all hamlets, the buses suck if they exist at all and taxi's have to be called, never hailed. Walking is ok at times, but can be bad if you need to hit the highway - not safe. You'll be fine living there, you just may need to bum a ride from a friend every once in a while. My undergrad school is in a small town, and it's driven me a bit crazy, but it's definitely doable.

I have to chime in here and say that, IMO, many people put WAAY too much stock into a ranking. Have you ever seen the arbitrary means by which various people/organizations/etc come up with these all important rankings? Have you ever seen how much variance there can be in those rankings? Generally, they should be considered as advised already in this thread - as hierarchical rankings. Meaning #1 is essentially no different from #10 or even #15. Usually the rankings are based on # of apps, selectivity, % of ppl who are accepted and subsequently enroll, etc. While there is some valuable info you can glean from that, it's pretty general, impersonal, and based on majority. Need I remind you that majority mentality got us Bush, NAFTA, Britney Spears, and NSync? Not always how you wanna go, ya know? I am in the same boat to a degree so I certainly sympathize. It's SOOO hard to make a final decision. I'm getting there, but every time I think I'm done I feel that cognitive dissonance and get cold feet. As I said in another thread, go with your gut feeling. Whatever that little voice says, follow it. Basically, that little voice is an aggregate of all info you care about (in most instances) both conscious factors and things you don't even realize you picked up on. Sometimes it disagrees with your head and that feels icky - but in my experience the gut feeling is usually the correct one. In the end, you'll be somewhat stoked, and somewhat bummed about your program most likely. Good luck!

Sounds like someone has never lived in a city. I can't EVER remember shopping in a Wal-Mart in a city, and uh - since when is mass transit unreliable? I'll take the T, Subway, or El any day over driving a car (gas and all) all over creation.

I've talked to several academics about this and the contrary seems to be more commonly true; they tend to prefer an older and more mature student over a younger one if everything else is equal. The logic I have been provided here is that students with some real world experience are conceivably more mature and more self-aware which leads to being more aware of what they want out of career and life. A top gripe, particularly of PhD faculty and chair alike is students admitted to PhD programs who stop at the non-terminal M.A/M.S or at some other random point along the way. They are investing a lot in you, as opposed to someone else and they want you to complete the program and add to their line of research, prestige, etc - and most of them (rightly so I generally believe) that older students have a better sense of their interests and are less likely to decide one summer that they don't like Clinical Psychology so much after all, they actually want to work and have a family or whatever. In the end, there will be exceptions to this trend as there are with all rules and trends. Keep going. There is a program waiting for you.

I don't know anything specifically about the university itself in that I have no personal contact with that. However, I have family in the area and can tell you that the campus is absolutely gorgeous. It's hard to explain, but the architecture, landscaping, etc just make a very nice atmosphere - great for chill contemplative strolling. LOL. Purdue also has quite a nice reputation as a research university. I think it would have been a pretty cool place to be an undergrad. However, there is NO question that it is an island of ppl surrounded by a great deal of nothingness. The only sanctuary you can take here is that Chicago is only ~1.5 hours away. Purdue is a rural campus, and there is just no getting around that. In my opinion, location is a big factor in choosing a PhD, but certainly far from a top-tier factor. Hope this helps!

I agree with the poster above who said contact #3 to be sure, but likely accepting at #2. In my personal experience, I have almost always regretted it when I went against gut instinct. Psychology has some good explanations why this is the case, I won't get into those, but going with it is generally right. Did you say how much cost of living is in the places? Depending on location $4000 less in one place could feel like $10,000 less in another. Or, instead of being $4000 less it could actually be more like $10,000 less. In general though, money is not where it's at. You'll be happier IMO with your ramen noodles and basic cable and a program you love than a cart load of organic food and HBO.

I'm a bit confused as to your situation so I'll paraphrase to be sure we're on the same page. You applied to multiple PhD programs and have been rejected by most, perhaps all but one? Thus, you are very anxiously awaiting the last one and are taking it as a bad sign that they haven't told you yes yet? If this is the case I wouldn't get too stressed yet. As the other poster said, you are almost surely on their waitlist - which is not a bad place to be as most programs have ~75-80 of their offers choose to attend elsewhere. Regardless, you're not rejected until you're notified. Lots of people get into only one program, so don't analyze too deeply at this point. Secondly, don't write of ever being a doctoral candidate just because you were shut out your first season applying - this happens to many good candidates. It's possible to be rejected outright one year, change very little, and get accepted with funding the next year. Too many variables to make any blanket assumptions in this game. With a admittance type GPA, solid GREs, and 10 years of work experience you should have the background + for PhD work. This means that your problem is likely one or more of the following issues: 1: You applied to the wrong programs. You can't just apply to the programs you LIKE, the fit has to be superior - you to them, and them to you. There needs to be a professor whose research interests are VERY similar to yours. 2: You didn't apply to the right range of schools. Generally, it is advised to apply to schools based on a heirarchy. Say you are doing 9 apps - ~3 should be to elite schools, ~3 should be middle of the road, and ~3 should be safeties. This is a general rule, and should be applied on some level if you want to maximize your chances of acceptance. If you would never go to a safety school, then you'll need to fix your metrics and accept that PhD may not happen. In this case, remember rating and prestige have VERY little, if ANYTHING to do with the experience of students in that program. It's usually based on some formula that is from an administrators point of view. Academics know that reputation, prestige, and rankings are more or less arbitrary. Grads from the 39th ranked program frequently outperform Harvard PhDs once they are all in the professional world. That is just a fact. 3. If you did apply to schools you are a good match for, and you applied to a good range your problem is either LOR or SOP. Most likely it's the SOP. In your case you need to tell a story - and it needs to make rational sense. The story needs to be about why you are applying after such a long academic hiatus. IE, what SPECIFICALLY lead you back to school, and how their program can help you achieve whatever that was, and how your attaining this is beneficial to someone or some thing outside of yourself. Finally, if your 10 years out of academia are not filled with work experience DIRECTLY related to your field you need to have explained how it DID relate, and what specifically about it was beneficial to a person proposing to go into this new field or sub-field. IMO, if you did not do this, and do it well this is the most likely reason for your issues at this point. 4. Another possibility, (though somewhat less likely, IMO) is that your LORs were sub-par or contained inappropriate content for your field. LORs can be quite hard with that much time out of academia I'm sure unless the position you held had you in close contact to academics. If a PhD is truly what you want, do not give up. In almost all circumstances you can get there. It may take some extra research and effort on your part, but if you really want it almost all deficiencies can be overcome.

I'm sorry - did you say FOUR WEEKS?!?!? As in FOUR WEEKS from now? Based on that we'll hear sometime the week of April 15th? That is not even a little bit cool. I don't think the program is necessarily a PhD backup (though surely some use it that way). Most people whose CV's I've seen should have been able to get into a PhD program somewhere. The thing is - people from this program have a GREAT success rate getting into the the most elite programs in the field. Anyway, that four weeks is going to really put us in a bind. I have other schools (and wait list ppl) on hold. I suppose what I'll have to do is decline all but one school and hold off on a firm acceptance to the other one 'til I hear for sure from W&M. Not really all that amused. How did you procure this information? Call, email? THANKS SO MUCH for posting this info!

It's especially hard to even begin to make a rational decision as I still have 4 programs I haven't heard from. I feel like the area is an equally important factor in the decision process though, because there's a good chance I'll be there around six years, and ultimately a lot of living will go on where ever any of us choose. I know for me, I do far better work when I feel stimulated and satiated by my environment. Unfortunately, there is just no way to know what it's like to live somewhere until you've done it. About the heat - I can definitely understand where you're coming from. Heat is nothing to mess with and it can be absolutely unbearable at times. This goes back to what I was saying about living somewhere. I lived in Tampa and can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that you cannot quantify that kind of heat until you have lived in it. For whatever reason, a week or two of vacation does not have the impact. I didn't like the heat necessarily, but I did like what it afforded, health and year round outdoor activities. I have several family members who have lived in FL and AZ at various times and they all agree that the heat in AZ is better than that of FL. One said 80 in Tampa felt like 105 in AZ. Both still HOT, but one felt better. On the other hand, dehydration is a far more serious consideration in AZ. I guess that's my concern about location - if you choose a bad one it can be a major issue. I know a few ppl who nearly when crazy in FL - just could not thrive or function at a high level for large portions of time in that climate. I feel sort of the same about winter - but I actually like the cold until Feb, at which point I begin to loathe it. On the other hand, after a while I start to really miss the seasons. Did you say you visited Arizona St? If so, what did you feel about the atmosphere on campus? Did it feel academic or overly meat headed? I'm really interested in a nice scholarly/academic milieu.

I'd say it depends on the program at both ends. If the M.Ed affords ample research opportunity and you take advantage of that (thesis at minimum) you should be fine. I know several people who have went on from M.Ed to PhD in both Clinical, Cognitive, and Quantitative Psych. If you get research experience, maintain an good GPA, and can explain why you went into the M.Ed that you did and why it's beneficial to you as a PhD candidate you will find you way into a PhD program that will make you happy.

I disagree with the comment about a 4.0 from a liberal arts college being less than a 4.0 at a major research university if you're talking about an undergrad GPA. In fact, I have evidence from many primary sources that it's the reverse. Professors generally assume that undergrads and small intensive schools write their A**** off because faculty have time to grade with a fine-tooth comb, whereas undergrads at major universities take bubble-sheet tests have written work graded, at least initially, by more tentative TAs. If, on the other hand you are talking about say MA GPA then the reverse would generally be true about which 4.0 would be (preferred). Really though, at this point we are splitting hairs. Cal Tech, MIT, RPI, whatever the school - 3.9s are not the kiss of death (or much of a difference maker at all) at the 3.8 and above levels. 4.0 ppl want to believe it is, but there are always going to be instances at all schools where 3.8s beat out 4.0 because the simple fact is that the GPA is one piece of a complicated puzzle and GPA is not a particularly reliable measure of future professional performance within tenths of a point.

Ok, I'm now into two of my highly ranked programs. BC Pros More elite school Boston is a fantastic city No need for car (YAY!) Many alums from my program are living BIG lives Funding seems more likely Less distance move (I'm currently in OH) Excellent culture Acela train to NYC BC Cons Expensive city (rent, etc a major consideration) Program not accredited by CACREP (Would be nice to have, but not essential since I'm going on to Counseling Psych PhD regardless) COLD winters - yuck. ASU Pros Fantastic climate (Sun, yah!) Excellent entertainment (I can probably afford sports in Phoenix and not in Boston) Program is accredited by CACREP Recreation in AZ Hiking, grand canyon, etc This U is quickly on the move - really progressive AZ Cons Less prestigious Need a car - Urban sprawl, ugh FAR and expensive move Somewhere deep down my heart seems to want BC for the city and life and ASU for the program (even though it's somewhat less prestigious). Any advice thoughts appreciated.

I've not heard of them doing interviews, and it seems a little late in the game to start that now. One of my concerns is that I didn't personally contact the professor who I'm a great match for - simply discussed that in my personal statement. I made a conscious decision not to, as that's done less in M.A. apps, but more or less regret the decision today. I don't feel particularly confident about my chances at WM like I do at most of the other schools I applied to, but certainly feel like it would be a mutually beneficial circumstance if they did accept me. Hopefully we'll hear this week?!? Good luck!

From my conversations with professors and other academics I'd say that 99.9% of the time a 3.9 would be judged EXACTLY the same as a 4.0. The only exception being if you took an out of sequence foundational class late in a program and had your issue there. Generally though, all 3.7's and above will be grouped as intelligent and scholastically capable and will be differentiated based on goodness of fit, LORs, research experience and personal statement. Hope this helps.