Chuck

Oh dear. Curiosity got the best of me, and I read the letter from my undergraduate advisor. Though it's absolutely fantastic to see such wonderful things said about oneself, I have to say that I am unexpectedly overwhelmed. I don't know how I can possibly live up to the image which my advisor painted. It's a pandoras box of things I can't possibly ever fully live up to. According to her, I apparently walk on water. There were so many amazing things said about me in that letter that it's truly overwhelming. I am embarrassed to have been spoken of in that way, and I just want to go hide in a cave. I haven't even been admitted to a PhD program yet, and already I have impostor syndrome! I miss thinking I was simply ordinary.

It looks like Wisconsin decisions will probably be out by early next week. Anyone else a Wisconsin hopeful?

Yes! Keep in mind that until a professor has all your application materials in front of them they're in no position to fully evaluate you as an applicant. I find this very reassuring. As long as you communicate in a professional and intelligent manner, the degree to which a POI is responsive to your initial inquiry as a prospective student is inherently not a referendum on you personally. A smart POI will not have entered the territory of truly judging your application until they've made a considered evaluation of your whole profile through your complete application materials. Then he/she will choose to contact you (or not) on the basis of an evaluation of your fit as a candidate. So go into your initial meetings with faculty with this in mind- you're both just trying, in good faith, to find the best graduate match.

This thread on the CHE forum may be of interest here: http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,84646.0.html

Thanks for the reply, Sociologyplease. I think it's also relevant to mention that I already have an MS, so using either of these programs as a backup option in that regard isn't really on the table for me. I've really done my homework in the application process and I'd truly be surprised if I didn't get into ANY those 5 programs. But I know that much worse things have happened in the history of PhD admissions, so it seems rather unreasonable to not at least consider more backup-type options. When I was applying to master's programs, I applied to a number of schools I had no real intention of attending. In that situation, ignorance paid off! I remember being very pleasantly surprised with several of those 'backup' programs once I was admitted, visited, and learned more about them. In the end, I went to the school which had been my top choice all along. But looking back on the whole experience, I know I could have been very happy at a number of other programs. This time around I've been making much more informed decisions about where to apply, so while I guess it's possible that either A or B could pleasantly surprise me on visit day, I'm pretty sure that my assessment of their strengths relative to my needs is reasonably accurate.

Ok, I know it's a bad idea to apply to a program you'd not realistically, for whatever reason, ever actually consider attending. My dilemma extends into some shades of grey in that direction. Is it bad form to apply to a program to which you know you're likely to be admitted, but have little intention of attending unless all of your other options fall through? I've already applied to 5 programs which I both consider a great research fit and for which I believe I have a decent shot at admission. Unfortunately, the fact that all those decisions are totally beyond my control is starting to do weird things to my brain! Five programs = not a lot of room for the huge amount of stochasticity in the admissions process. I'm now looking at 2 final programs which I am less excited about, but which could potentially also work out very well (hence the reason that they are on my list at all). The problem is that my actual enthusiasm about them is a toss-up. I guess if I am rejected from all 5 of my top programs, and either one of these other two programs came through with an offer of stable funding, I seriously would consider attending. But, that scenario aside, these are not my dream schools. I've already paid the whopping $46 to send my GRE scores to these other 2 schools, and my recommenders have already submitted letters to Program A. Should I cut my losses, or trundle through? (by the way, Programs A & B aren't necessarily Sociology departments, so for the sake of anonymity, please don't try to guess their identity!) Program A has one POI who I would very much like to work with. Other than that, there is nobody in the department whose interests are very much aligned with mine. Part of the big attraction of my top 5 programs is that I have identified multiple committee members who can contribute significantly to my project. As far as I can tell, Program A doesn't really offer that. Less of a concern for Program A is the university itself, which is fairly mediocre but in a beautiful location. Program B has several POI's who are good prospects. The problem here is these profs are the "superstars" in a very narrow sub-discipline, and beyond them I can't see that the department offers much. Through my advisor, I've made positive contact with 2 of these POI's. I get the feeling that they are very likely to want me (though this contact was months ago, so they are not necessarily definitely expecting my application). Though I would love to work with these few POI's, my research needs clearly extend beyond their disciplinary focus, and I'm fairly convinced that the department is not equipped to handle the broader needs of my project. These are people who I want to continue to build a professional relationship with throughout my academic career, so I want to do the right thing here. On the one hand, I feel bad courting these people in full knowledge that I don't have a very strong intention of attending their program. If I get funding offers at any of my other 5 programs, I'm going to say no. Program B's university is also fairly mediocre. But if my other programs don't work out- I suppose I would choose Program B over no program at all. So what about the grey area around "places I'd actually consider attending"? How wide is it, and in what circumstances? Anyone else feeling dishonest throughout this whole courtship process? Should I apply? Continue to play the courtship game? Potentially waste a few hundred more $$, and several hours tailoring my SOP?

Yeah, a $36K difference is nothing to scoff at. Also keep in mind that it is nice to feel "wanted" by a program. Regardless of overall reputation, each school has only so many resources. If you're at the top of their pile, it's likely that you're going to be able to command a higher share of the resources that the school has to offer. Theoretically, once enrolled, everyone is the same, but the go-getters are likely to get more out of their experience. Knowing they really want you there is going to count for a lot. On the other hand- you say that $36K is the difference- what is the total debt you're likely to face at Duke? Because something on the order of $36K in debt is really really manageable for an MPA graduate from a good school, even if you do go into non-profit or government service.

How much money are we talking here? I think if you give us an idea of the disparity, we'll be able to weigh in with more precise advice. I think it's pretty reasonable to, within reason, take out a significant amount to attend a program that is right for you. This is a major decision that is going to affect the rest of your entire career- I would certainly not choose a program just because they offered me more money. Obviously it's a consideration, but only you know what's right for you. And, with very few exceptions, you are going to have to take money out for a masters. That's just how it is.

Are there any US students who have just been admitted to FES who wouldn't mind sharing their financial aid offers? You can PM me if you don't want to be public about it. As a prospective Fall 2011 applicant, I would really appreciate this information. The financial aid office only gave me very general information. I have a lot of undergrad debt, so I only want to get my hopes up at schools that are likely to be affordable for me . Specifically- I want to know how much scholarship aid US students are getting at Yale right now. It is quite frustrating to me that this information is not public or online somewhere. Most of the kids applying to SIPA & other government affairs kinds of programs are sharing it right and left on Grad Cafe message boards, but it's really hard to find info about FES. I wonder how much scholarship aid a US-student can reasonably hope for? The financial aid office made it seem that all admitted students with similar aid needs are given approximately the same amount, but I want to know how much that amount is likely to be! thank you so much!!

Would those who have just received their financial aid packages please comment on the sweetness of the pot? Those of us who are really curious to know are potential applicants for Fall 2011 scoping out the MEM scene at different schools, we don't know who you are and will respect your anonymity!

Has anyone gotten funding information yet? I have a friend who is currently at the school and I'm pretty shocked with the small financial aid package they offered him. I know FES is trying to build their donor base for aid, so I'm wondering if the funding situation is getting better year-by-year or is simply getting swallowed by simultaneous tuition hikes. I think that for the most part the school does not award aid amounts preferentially on merit, except in the cases of outside/university-wide scholarships, or very specific funding sources. Once need is established, they try to spread aid around fairly evenly. I think. According to my friend, most students end up taking out the max in stafford loans for both years (21K each year), with some also taking the perkins (5K). This is in addition to working 15-20 hours a week as an RA (though I hear those jobs are plentiful for FES students). A significant number of students also take on private loans to cover living expenses or so they don't have to have a campus job. This seems like a lot of loans, but I'm just now starting to look into grad school so maybe it's normal. If you wouldn't mind telling the forum what kind of package you got (assuming you applied for aid with full financial need), future applicants would much appreciate it!!

This is a tough one. I've also heard great things about the LBJ school, but obviously their international connections are not going to be as strong as some competitors. As with most policy programs, a lot is going to depend upon what kind of effort you put in and the connections that you make. The fact that the school works so hard to make a fantastic experience available to students is going to count for a lot in this regard. How much are they offering you? Will it cover your full tuition? Tuition + Expenses? This counts for more than it seems, even now. I know folks coming out of top policy schools with 50K + in debt who are really struggling to find jobs, international or otherwise. It's certainly something to think about. Freedom from debt is huge.

Thanks a lot, you all! What a friendly and helpful bunch of sociologists I have found here on the virtual interweb. Makes me think that I should weight my program selection to sociology over geography or environmental science Thanks also for the reassuring words about GRE scores. I was pretty pleased with them 5 years ago, and see no reason to re-take. Honestly, it feels a little juvenile as a means of evaluation. I'd like to get my foot in the door, and let the real meat of my application speak for itself. That being said, I hear that many public schools use raw numbers for university-wide fellowships. And I read somewhere on this forum that schools like Madison don't even guarantee funding for some of their cohort (!!)- while 5-6 are given guaranteed 5-year full rides (from university-wide fellowships) right off the bat. It's this kind of thing that scares me almost enough to want to re-take the test! Almost... I also got to thinking more about my application and it's made me a bit paranoid over all the unknowns. When I was finishing up my MS, I was quite certain that I did not want to continue on to a PhD. In my last semester, I let my research slide a little bit and focused on my consulting internship (which ultimately led to a job offer, so I think that trade-off was worth it). Anyway, I didn't do so well in my last semester of the MS (not horribly, but a couple of B's). I'm thinking this probably looks really really bad, especially since the B's were in my research classes with my advisor. I wonder what a good strategy for redemption might be here? I guess the issue is that I need to prove that I can follow through with research. I did present my MS research at a number of national conferences, so that is probably a plus. But I'm going to have to get an LOR from my advisor, and (the paranoid) part of me has no idea what she might say. What would you do in my situation? What are some do's and dont's for approaching my advisor? Should I address this discrepancy in my SOP?

I want to thank you all for taking the time to put all of this advice out there. Take it from a prospective 2011 Sociology applicant, this is really really helpful! I'm gathering that it's considered a bit tacky to be too specific about one's applicant profile on this forum, but while I have the attention of all you folks who have just gone through the process, I'd really appreciate some anonymous advice. I'm an "older" (this feels really weird to say) applicant trying to get a head start on next year's admissions cycle. I think I'll be applying to environmental sociology, environmental policy, and/or geography type programs. That's a bit of a range, but I have a highly interdisciplinary background and I think I have a good "fit" with advisors across those fields and departments. I'm still in the early stages of researching schools, and I'm trying to make some choices as to where to hone down my list of schools. I'd like your frank advice about my competitiveness, given your recent experience with the application process at a range of schools. I'm not concerned with getting into a tip-top competitive program, but much more concerned about fit. I'd love to go to a place that really "wants" me- and can provide me with a guarantee of sufficient funding to help support my family (yes, one of us will be making an actual salary, thank god!). One of my main concerns at the moment is whether I should retake the GRE. I took the GRE back in 2006 and got a 780 Q, 620 V (87%), 5.5 AW. These scores were fine to get me into a top master's program, but I'm worried that they: A- may be considered "too old" (even though they are within the last 5 years), and B- If I put my mind to it, I think I could probably do better given another chance. That being said, I'm a busy professional and if there is a good chance that these scores are "good enough" to get me where I want to go, I'd really rather not bother spending hours and hours and hundreds of dollars re-taking a silly exam. Here's my basic profile: UGRAD GPA: 3.87, top liberal arts college, science major. Excellent reccs, but this was... many years ago (do these reccs even still count?) MS GPA: Officially ungraded, but something like 3.7, I should actually calculate that. A top MS program in environment. Good reccs (I think?) GRE: 780 Q, 620 V, 5.5 AW Lots of work experience in policy, writing, etc for a range of employers, some well-known in my sub-field. What do you think? How do these stats bode with schools like: Chicago, Michigan, Wisconsin, Clark, Berkeley ESPM.... wherever you applied.

Is it ever ok to have a recommendation from a family member? Obviously, the person would be expected to disclose their relationship. But would the assumed bias of a familial connection just squander the letter being taken seriously? I'm in a bit of a pickle here. I've been doing great work with my father, who is in my proposed PhD field of study, for the past 2 years after my MA. I know he could honestly write some insightful things in a letter, and he has offered to do so. I don't want to jeopardize my application being taken seriously. The obvious answer here is to ask someone else closely affiliated with our work to write the letter. I really can't think of anyone of the same caliber (both in terms of academic seniority and daily professional knowledge of my work) who I am associated with right now who could vouch for me. Is this a no-no regardless? What might make it acceptable?

An advisor from my MA has the potential of writing a great recc for my applications to PhD programs (Fall 2011- I have some time). I worked very closely with her for 2 years on a project I am quite proud of. Towards the end of the project, she had a series of life challenges and a bit of a mental breakdown that caused her to leave the project and me to finish the project on my own. The break was relatively clean, but messy enough that our contact, once frequent and relaxed, has been awkward and minimal since then. Though I really resented the ways that she abused me and let me down in the last few months on my MA project, I was never anything but cordial to her. There were a few moments, however, where I got the impression that her resentment of me had turned personal. The problem is, I have no idea what this woman might say on a letter of recommendation. I have heard horror stories about folks agreeing to writing a letter but then only making it lukewarm, and I know that a half-assed letter is much much worse than no letter at all. The thing is, I really don't trust this woman. I have heard her go on endlessly and mercilessly in her mocking and back-biting of others (both deserved and undeserved), and I am pretty certain that when I am out of earshot, I also do not escape this petty two-facedness. On the other hand, I did excellent work for her during my MA, and I know that before her breakdown she was extremely happy with my work. Objectively speaking, she should be able to write a strong letter. I don't want to take the risk of not having a positive letter from her in my file- but I also think my asking her could backfire enormously. What do I do? How do I approach her? Is asking her if she "would be able to write a favorable recommendation" in regards to my performance on my MA Project enough? Part of me thinks that she would certainly agree to write me a letter (out of politeness) and then turn around and say something half-assed/lukewarm... and I would never know! I have other recommenders (who I know will write very favorably) from this MA program, but none who are as thoroughly familiar with my work. Nevertheless, I'd much rather have my former advisors perspective. The only thing I can think to do is to try to re-kindle a dialogue with my former advisor, about our professional work and my interest in graduate school, and scope out how warm she is with me... any suggestions about what to do in this situation?

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Thanks, both of you! Those sites are quite helpful. And best of luck in your applications this season! I know numbers are far from everything... but they do tell the outlines of a story. As there isn't (to my knowledge) a centralized resource of these kinds of stats for Geography programs, this could become a great resource. Hopefully enough people will choose to participate this application cycle! *Also note that the survey template only allows for 20 responses to each question- thus I had to leave out a few grad programs. I'm pretty much a total newbie when it comes to knowing much about geography depts, so please don't be offended if I left your school out! I literally googled "Geography Departments" and picked the first ones that came up.

I'm a newbie to the field of Geography, hoping to apply to PhD programs for the Fall 2011 admissions cycle. As it is really hard to find admissions stats online, I'm hoping to get an idea of where I might be most competitive. I would be super grateful to you all for filling out a brief survey about your academic background and admissions success. All geographers and those in related disciplines are invited to participate- whether you are currently waiting out the Fall 2010 admissions cycle, or have applied in past years. Please feel free to leave any comments or additional information about your academic or professional qualifications that you felt were important to cinching the deal at your target institutions. I hope this information is useful to all of us - future applicants and current nail-biters alike! Thanks so much! Chuck!

At the suggestion of one of my advisors, I'm looking into applying to UWisconsin Madison for the Fall 2011 cycle in Geography. My masters is in the environmental field- though I have presented at AAG and have found a number of faculty at Madison I would be interested in working with. I've been searching online, but can't find any admissions stats for this program. Does anyone know how many new PhD students are admitted each year? How selective is the program? Any stats you can provide would be quite helpful (GRE, GPA, Admit Rate, other vitals for admitted candidates). Thanks so much! Chuck

I'm applying to interdisciplinary programs in several different related departments- mostly in Environmental Sociology: Pros- Undergrad at top liberal arts college- Phi Beta Kappa (top 3% of senior class). 2 highly competitive scholarships and research fellowships Official major not in my field, but I took (and did well in) many related classes. 3 Excellent LOR's from undergrad, 2 with information along the lines of "best student/project I've ever had" Senior thesis with presentation at regional conference Professional experience in the field, both post-BA and Post-MS MS from a top program in the field. Named scholarship + 3 prestigious university-wide program fellowships during the degree. Secured $50K grant and named scholarship funding for MS degree, international research and conferences Edited a scholarly journal during the MS. TA'd and assisted with publication of a book for one of the biggest names in the environmental field. Excellent LOR from this person. Presentations at 3 international conferences (including 1 keynote), and 2 national conferences. Book written for major publisher after completion of MS (still in press). Cons- * BA largely unrelated to PhD field of study, 2 of the 3 undergrad LOR's are also from recommenders outside the field * MS was officially ungraded. I aced most of my classes, but some of the classes I did not perform so well in (B+ ish). My "excuse"?: I was busy with the excellent opportunity of working with one of the top people in my field. * My MS advisor had a mental breakdown and left the school in my last semester and I am unable/did not think it wise to get a recc from him (also, because of this, I barely finished my thesis). Hence- I am relying more on my (out of field) undergrad reccs than I would like. * Most spots in this field are highly competitive due to very few established research programs, lack of funding, and the interdisciplinary nature of intersecting fields in which tons of applicants potentially have lots more experience. * I neglected to re-take the GRE and instead submitted my pre-MS scores from 5 years ago. 780 Q, 620 V, 5.5 A. Very respectable numbers, but not tip-top for what some of these programs are expecting (or perhaps what I could score today- seriously, who wants to spend months studying for and re-taking the GRE? Maybe this would have been a good idea, but I couldn't bear to do it!). * I haven't made as many personal connections with potential advisors as I should have.