northeastregional

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"I am a doctoral candidate in a program that is discussed incessantly in this forum." And you say: "I have quite a bit more of it [anecdotal experience] than the opinions of two people" but we are two people working and studying in PhD programs, you are one person on the outside. I don't think you can claim to be more of an expert about what actually happens to students who enter PhD programs until you've been there. It's a matter of experience and expertise. Unless you, like my wife, served on an admissions committee this fall, we are more qualified to speak about graduate admissions in art history than you are. "it's about personality, self-awareness and experience" -- Who told you that? You will find that this is not true. Personality and self-awareness aside, you lack experience working towards a PhD unless, as previously mentioned, you have a PhD in another field. "there is no reason I could think of that I would not be capable of finishing a program" -- the admission committees have thought of reasons. A low blow, maybe, but my last.

I don't get why this is hard for you to follow. I am an art historian. My wife is an art historian. We are affiliated with different programs, we work in different subject areas and in different capacities, but art history PhD programs for us both. Unlike you, I have offered biographical details that are verifiable - I shouldn't be hard to find online. An article where a student is "interviewed about why they dropped out," is no different than the anecdotal insight I have offered here. "How about all of the posters on the results board who have said this is their second or third time applying, and they were accepted to a number of schools?" is also anecdotal. The difference is that I actually know these people, whereas you are trusting a "results board." "You have no way of knowing what I'm capable of, and it seems you have a very narrow definition of what "capable" is." -- you may very well be capable of finishing a PhD but you cannot support this claim, to borrow your phrase, until you have completed the degree. I also cannot say that I am capable of completing a PhD. I can say that I am capable of being admitted to a PhD program. "I think most of the people on this board would disagree with you" - I don't care. "I know it's crazy, but message boards can be about more than one thing at the same time." -- right, exactly.

My knowledge is not secondhand - I am a doctoral candidate in a program that is discussed incessantly in this forum and I have close (even marital, gasp) ties to other programs in the field. I don't need to support my "claims" because my insight is anecdotal, not statistical. There are no articles in Chronicle/Chronicle Vitae or elsewhere that breakdown PhD completion rates in art history vs. the application round at which successful students were admitted and the total number of PhD admission offers they had at matriculation. MaytheSchwartzBeWithYou, you say "persistence pays off" -- support that claim. "I do know I am capable of obtaining a PhD" -- you have no way of knowing if this is true unless you already have a PhD in another field. This is a forum for practical advice, not a support group. Sometimes when you ask strangers for advice, you don't get the answers you want. Maybe I will see you all in the fall (or the fall of 2017, it seems) but statistically, I would wager that I will not (odds are about 5-7%).

This 11-page thread says otherwise. Thanks to FERPA, there is no data on admittance vs. completion, which is why I began: "In my experience..." And I don't know anyone who has dropped out for any of the reasons you mentioned, but maybe their experiences are buried in the "etc. etc." It would be false logic if tweaking your application led to different results more often than not, but that's simply not the case. We should poll the repeat applicants from this year to the next - I predict little change. I agree that a rejection isn't necessarily a reflection of your ability to succeed. I just don't believe that everyone posting on this thread is the exception - most of you are, by definition, the rule. I'm not wringing my hands over the job market, top-ten or otherwise. I am married to a TT professor in the field and I have no plans to enter the academic track, so the job market doesn't affect me at all.

Funniest (and truest) tidbit in this thread.

I think we all know (or know of) people who "improved" their application and got in by the second try. That said, it can be hard to see ourselves objectively and I would put real stock in the decisions of admissions committees when you reflect on how to go forward. In my experience, the students who struggle the most in graduate school are the students who fought the hardest to be there, or for whom our program was their only offer. Those are the students who drop out ABD or earlier. It can be tough news to swallow but my advice would be to distance yourself from dramatic, absolutist romanticization - ie. "I was born to be an art historian," (you weren't) or "This is the only path would bring me happiness" (it's not) - and to be practical about the feedback you've received from professionals in the field who know what it takes to succeed as a graduate student.

You should ask them their acceptance rate for American students before you sink $30k+ into a 9-month course. "too good an opportunity to pass up" isn't quite right when they take over 40% of graduate applicants in the humanities: https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/Graduate%20admissions%20statistics%20for%20the%202013-14%20admission%20cycle_amended.pdf.

I'm a federal employee and a PhD is the fastest way to GS-13+. My partner is tenure track in the field (he's on that spreadsheet, actually) but I'm not sure he'd start over knowing what he knows now - he feels the ethical burden of taking on PhD he knows he won't be able to place on the job market. I would not advise beginning a PhD program on the basis of "passion/dreams" but if you are, these stats shouldn't bother you.

How can anyone look at this list and start a PhD program with plans to teach? Right now, your odds of getting a tenure-track job are effectively zero. Invest six to eight emotionally draining years of being exploited for cheap labor... your odds might scratch 20%, if you're in a top program. And there are students taking on mountains on debt for MAs (very, very cheap programs for schools to run, by the way) to improve their odds of getting into top PhD programs... so they can improve their odds to 20%. A 20% shot at a job you cannot possibly know you will enjoy. But if you're reading this, you're probably the exception, not the rule.

I don't think you're crazy - this is just a really bad situation and I'm sympathetic. A $30k loss is very difficult to swallow, but no, I don't think you should spend another $30k to finish. Is the program accredited? The upside to these new details is that I think quitting won't be damaging to you when you reapply to MA programs. Leave it off your CV entirely - you don't have to tell anyone you were enrolled in this program. If there are questions about the gap on your CV, you can simply say you took time away from the job market for personal reasons.

Nothing about my post above is hostile. I mentioned the PMs only to say that there is apparent interest in my connection to these departments so I better state things outright.

I've answered this twice already via pm so maybe I should just say outright: I am either directly affiliated with, friends with, or married to someone affiliated with each of those institutions, at both grad student (one of the three) and faculty (two of the three) levels.

FYI Delaware meets on Friday. Penn also meets this week. Maryland waiting on funding approval for their cohort from the university admins.

Keep dreaming.