[need a 3rd LOR but have no one to ask]

Let me suggest a different tack. These schools go through hundreds of applications when deciding who to admit. If you can't find a third recommender, ask your mom or pop. It will be unique, and though is *formally* prohibited by most programs, puts a personal touch on your application. These committees are tired, weary, fried, and so emotive, maudlin even. If they read a letter that testifies to your lifelong ambition to be an academic (and who better to testify to that than someone who has known you, lifelong?), and the many obstacles you have overcome to reach that point, they will likely be moved and give you the thumbs up on a close decision. Never underestimate the power of emotion on an audience (see: Palin, Sarah).

troll.

[Letters of Recommendation]

I just sent out packages to my recommenders with all the necessary cover sheets, postage paid envelopes, and so on. But, I have not yet ruled out applying to additional schools. If I decided to apply to more schools, do you think it would be an issue to come back to my recommenders and ask that they submit a couple more letters for me?

I'm assuming it wouldn't be a big deal, but I wanted to see what the rest of you think.

Of course, I could just go the Ferraro route and walk into the office of the recommenders, grab each by the collar, and tell them they will write additional letters for me, or else.

haha

No it won't be a big deal, most professors are accustomed to these sorts of things when dealing with the grad admission race

[How does a credit card work?]

also--don't ever be late on a payment. A lot of credit cards have fine print where if you miss one payment or are late they hike your interest rate up so high you'll be indebted up to your ears. Be very careful about your payments and keep hard copies of EVERYTHING.

[grades question!!!???? please advise]

sorry... not to belabour the thread but one last question.

anese you mentioned: 'In short, do not mention it. ', and you seem fairly confident in your answer

if an admissions committee looked at the F, wouldn't they say what is going on? Assume you received my application and you saw the F in a graduate class with no explanation, what would be your thoughts about the student?

Believe you me, I would love to NOT mention it cuz it draws attention to something bad. I am just worried they will jump to criticize unless an explanation is provided, that is why I feel the need to add a sentence or 2. I am just trying to weigh everything before I send my application.

thx

If you really feel the need, a sentence or two is fine. I had an F on my transcript. I even had a few Ds. Trust me when I say that I did not spend even a paragraph discussing it. I focused on crafting a kick-ass SoP that focused on all of my strengths, not my weaknesses. I'm just saying in the end, leave them with a positive and honest picture of you as a dedicated scholar.

[grades question!!!???? please advise]

To the OP--honestly I wouldn't bring it up. Not unless I were asked specifically. Focus on your achievements and talent. If you do feel the need to mention it, it should only be a fleeting sentence that immediately segues into your excellent performance in the poli sci courses.

To the poster above, that approach will only make one look simply weak and defensive. Applying to grad school requires grit and determination, not milquetoast excuses. Throw a howitzer at the professor and move on with the rest of the SOP. I am incredulous you'd advise this applicant to go out of his/her way to diminish him/herself in any way.

There are ways to be honest without diminishing yourself. Honestly, I would think an applicant was irresponsible if they tried to "pass the buck" on a grade--especially a failure. In order for this to have happened, it had to be more than just a professor's incompetence...and if it WAS the professor's incompetence, then why wasn't the grade appealed? Who would the OP have to vouch for their credibility? You are putting your word, as a student, up against that of a (possibly tenured) professor! A person who has not only completed a doctorate, but has earned the right to teach at your previous institution! The very charge, while valid, could call into question your credibility, your maturity, and your ability to go on and do better in another graduate program. Please, by all means, encourage the OP to paint a big target sign on their backs!

Listen, it isn't that I don't think that terrible, malicious professors are not out there...but let us be honest with ourselves. Academia can be a scary, judgmental place, and by its very institutional nature caters to the hierarchy. In order to get in, you have to do your absolute best to sell yourself as someone that they want to work with. This means making yourself out to be the best candidate that you can, someone who isn't going to disrupt the system--challenge it perhaps, with your dedication and your grit, but not turn on your future professors and blame them for your shortcomings. Like it or not, if you start writing in your SOP that you aren't going to take any crap, they aren't going to be thinking "wow I respect this guy" they are going to be thinking "what kind of baggage does this person have that they couldn't LEAVE IT BEHIND...and start over again in our program?" You want to be concerned with selling yourself, and that means moving on from the past and not turn what was an incredibly ugly situation (regardless of whether the professor was at fault or not) into a dark cloud hanging over your future potential.

In short, do not mention it. And if asked, do not address the previous professor's character...simply say that you had a hard time, improved and are ready to move on. If you make that kind of charge in academia, you better be ready to put your money where your mouth is. You have no idea what that person's professional connections are and whose friends sit on committees!

[grades question!!!???? please advise]

Address it forthrightly and firmly. Say you earned an F but it has no bearing on your contribution to the field of sociology or public policy or economics. Tell them if they exclude you based on that one course, they can go to hell. Don't fail to mention that the instructor was a vindictive prick. You want to make the ad. coms. feel guilty if they reject you.

Obviously, none of this poster's advice should be taken seriously. This is the second post I've read where he or she gave such horrible advice that it would be sure to land someone's application in the dustbin.

OP- No matter the difficulty of the professor, I would never discuss a failed grade or poor performance as if it was the professor who was to blame. Think of how many times instructors have to deal with lazy students who blame them for their poor performance. No matter what his incompetence may have been, DO NOT ADDRESS IT, DO NOT BRING IT UP in any way shape or form. Take responsibility for the grade, don't make yourself into a target for rejection by mentioning the professor's poor behavior. I have already learned this the hard way: 9 times out of 10, it really was the student, and if it wasn't, the grad committee isn't likely to believe a sob story telling them otherwise.

Focus on your achievements, not on what went wrong in the past. That is the best way to move forward and impress a committee.

[LOR roulette]

I would ask the school if it is ok, and see if there is a place in the application to upload "additional recommendations".

If they O.K. it, honestly, I can't see what is wrong with having the resources to say "Hey, these six people think that I would be a fantastic addition to your program."

I have a hard time seeing a graduate committee recoiling in dismay (lol) because you were able to find three additional people to vouch for you enthusiastically.

[Javits 09-10]

I don't understand. Are already fully-funded? Why do you want a Javits as well?

[how to hide my weak GPA]

There is, but he's not in the field I plan on going into. That's one of the other complicating factors - I was a political science major as an undergrad, yet want to go to grad school for history. The non-degree courses I'm doing right now are all history related.

Sometimes you can submit more than one recommendation letter. If you have at least one strong writer from your undergraduate years, I would include him as a fourth writer, or even as a third if you could not obtain one. Poli Sci and History are not that far off from each other. My undergraduate work was in politics, policy and history, it is what I got my degree in. The strong undergraduate school might mean a lot more if it comes along with the confident rec of a professor who saw your work there. That may offset the very low GPA.

ETA- I guess "not that far off from each other" should be put into context, my interests were US history, US urban planning, and US political science...so for me there wasn't that grand of a difference. However, that is besides the point if that professor can speak to your general abilities and accomplishments as an applicant. Seriously consider including him as an additional recommendation to the the three or two you are already securing.

I am also someone who comes from one of those "notorious universities" my GPA was above 3.0, but not in the ideal range. I think that having strong recommendations from faculty I worked with moved my application out of the "maybe pile". If you contact him and find that he can't write a strong letter, don't worry about it--but if he can, I would consider the possibility of adding it as an additional boost to your app.

[how to hide my weak GPA]

I was planning on studying in Korea, yeah, but mostly to improve my language skills as I'd prefer to be fluent or near-fluent when finally entering a PhD program.

One thing I neglected to mention that may also offset the bad GPA is that it's from a top university that's notorious for being both extremely difficult and having a brutal core curriculum. (If I mention that it's not in the Northeast, you should be able to guess which one.)

Sometimes that can make a difference, but when you are below a 3.0 I would try to prepare myself as if that wasn't even a factor in the admissions process. That is, do everything possible to demonstrate your aptitude and dedication. You are definitely on the right track--is there anyone from your undergrad that can write a strong letter for you in addition to the Columbia professor?

[how to hide my weak GPA]

I'm doing my damnedest to get straight A's, and yeah, I should make at least one stellar contact in my field (Korean history) whose recommendation would carry some really heavy weight should I manage to get one from her.

I haven't been out of school very long - I finished my BA in 2005 - but I did spend two years in Korea, which is what prompted a switch to Korean history in the first place. That may help, I don't know.

Korean history...that sounds fascinating. Would it be possible for you to do any studying in Korea during the intermittent time while waiting to apply? If you have a good professor contact, it might be a great idea to pick their brains about what historians they read, academic journals, conferences they attend...if you can really demonstrate interest and craft a stellar SoP you may be able to find yourself in an MA program where you can better position yourself for the PhD.

I completely just threw my resolve to post less here and lurk out the window.

[how to hide my weak GPA]

I'm in a similar situation to the one the OP's in - I have a terrible undergraduate GPA (2.6) and I'm currently trying to make up for it by doing a year as a non-degree student at Columbia. The nagging question in my mind, though, is if it will be enough.

It depends on what type of non-degree work you are doing. Are you earning straight A's? Would you make strong contacts with professors who could then write recommendations/vouch for you? Will you have enough work done to submit for publication? Columbia University is notorious for its distant administration--unattached faculty, advisers who disappear or find "better things to do", kicking students out of classes (weeks late!) because they are reserved for students of other depts, etc...if you can't find at least one positive contact during your experience I don't think it would be worth it. Finding a less expensive school with accessible faculty might even be a better option.

If you have not been out of school for a long time, now might be the chance to prove yourself to admissions committees in other ways. That said, depending upon what program you are interested in, it might be worthwhile to acquire relevant professional experience. What would you want to study in graduate school? It might be possible to achieve your goals without it. I wish that I could be of more help, 2.6 is a very hard hurdle to overcome.

[Advice?]

Alone, your GPA would be dicey, but when you consider the entire package I think you stand a chance. Networking, in ivy admissions, is key.

ETA- to remove my spec about your school, as per your request...

But if it is the school I'm thinking of, I think you stand more than a chance. I have family who went there and were practically begged to join Harvard--faculty connections play a large part.

anyway, you only hurt yourself if you don't bother to apply.

[How about this network feedback? Will it help?]

I have to say you were lucky and UMich was really nice. For my target program, the administrative secretary now doesn't respond to my e-mails :oops: I have no idea why she is like this now.

So, you're re-applying, too? Good luck, man~~~~~

[/quote

I made it into NYU after the U-Mich denial--(btw I'm a woman)

I have been lurking all summer and I think this is probably my last weekend really participating in the discourse on these forums--my grad work is starting to kick in.

I wish you luck as well, I know how stressful this process is.

[How about this network feedback? Will it help?]

Thanks man~~

Well, I don't think there'll be lab rotation in that program. You just shop around and choose one. I didn't ask for the rejection reason 'coz I don't think they'll ever give that to the applicant, except some non-sense like "you'are highly qualified but slots are extremely limited" blablabla. I'd assume that 1) maybe another student networked and got it; 2) he didn't have funding to recruit a student; 3) other reasons.

BTW, how come you know I'm in BME?

I saw BME for your program

I asked U-Mich why I was rejected earlier this year, and the DGS was kind enough to go through an annotated list of reasons why. So sometimes it can be beneficial, and sometimes they'll just ignore you.

[How about this network feedback? Will it help?]

As far as I know, this program admits students without assigning into a specific professor and all students are supported by departmental fellowship.

Hmm I'm not sure if this is the case, but I know in Bio they don't assign professors because you have to do lab rotations and get a chance to work with/mesh with a lot of different professors before you choose an adviser. You are in BME, so I'm not sure if it is like that or not.

The previous professor asked me about my research background, my advisor's name (I'm already a graduate student) and where I got my B.S. I tentatively plan to hit the current professor with my research. He's doing pretty much the same stuff that I'm doing now, and I believe we have a lot to talk about that, and probably talk a little about future career development.

Sounds great!

Do you think my assumption is sound? I think my failure last year was 'coz I didn't network at all.

It is possible. Did you ever get a chance to ask the dept what was weak about your app? If not, I do think your conclusion seems plausible.

Don't lose hope, it looks like you are on the right track.

[How about this network feedback? Will it help?]

I tried to network with a Professor in my target program. First e-mail sent in April with CV and 2nd e-mail in June, no responses at all. I sent the 3rd a couple of days ago, briefly introducing my previous and current research projects and that I'll attend a conference next week and request for a talk in person.

He replied in an hour but said he won't attend. But, he said he'd like to talk to me over the phone after I get back from the conference. I e-mailed back that I'll attend another conference in Oct. and would like to talk to him in person, if he's gonna be there. No reply by now :oops:

So, fellows, what do you think about my networking? Do you think I have a great/good/fair/little chance? Actually I applied to the program last year and got rejected after being waitinglisted for a while. This professor happens to be the chair of admission comittee and I guess he must have read my application last year, and then rejected me.

Any comments and suggestions are welcome!

I hate to say it, but I think that you should have taken advantage of the phone call offer...pushing him and pushing him to meet in person doesn't make a good impression IMO. If you were wait-listed last year and then rejected, you had some qualifications that impressed the committee. It just so happens last year there was someone else who suited their idea of "ideal candidate" more.

I'm going to be frank here--I'm not sure what you could do to salvage this situation at this point...from what you've said it seems like you've beaten him over the head with your credentials, he gave you an opportunity for some over the phone "face time" (perhaps impressed by your tenacity, or finally has the time?) and then you blew it by urging him to again meet in person.

Either he is too busy to do it, doesn't want to give you any false hope, doesn't want to field a frantic prospective at an academic conference, or is afraid of "leading you on" and thus increasing your chances of (a) disappointment or ( putting himself in an incredibly uncomfortable position during the application process or © insert random reason here.

My advice: take a breather, relax...the best I can think of at this point would be to contact, express your disappointment at not being able to meet in person, and say you would be more than happy to discuss his current research work over the phone whenever he has time.

[History Admissions 2009]

Thanks, anese! That's good advice. It was a lack of language experience, and lack of academic experience in medieval history (my field) that supposedly held me back. I'm hoping that advanced language training and a graduate degree (MA) in medieval history will make my application stronger this time around.

Awesome! Sorry if I sounded like I was nagging--I'm glad everything is in order for you I just finished walking around the Byzantine/Medeival History library at NYU after cruising Columbia's...pretty neat stuff. I wish I had the language work/tenacity for that field! It's always fascinated me.

[Where to study propulsion (AE)]

yes, check out the programs on this list -- all first/second tier programs:

http://www.topgradprograms.com/search/r ... propulsion

Good luck!

Just a note--I'm not sure how reliable those lists are. I looked up some programs and noticed that the site lists some Ivy programs as top, when I know for certain that they don't even come close. I also noticed that for some degree fields, there was a lack of reputable public/private universities that are known to have some of the most prestigious programs, and instead Ivy institutions are listed.

Grain of salt, etc...

[History Admissions 2009]

Just a question for all the history re-applicants: I was told by adcoms that my SOP was actually quite good, and that other factors held me back last year. Now that I'm reapplying, should I write a new SOP, or simply tweak the one that I already have? (I intend to apply to many of the same schools that I did last year.)

Whoa hold on. You were told it wasn't your SoP and you are re-applying this year to the same schools without any changes?--do you know what they thought was weak in your application? Was it research experience? coursework? GPA? LORs?

If you have not made adjustments already, it is really important that your cv has some marked improvements before you re-apply to the same schools.

Also--you can keep your SoP with a few changes to adjust for any new relevant information that might improve your chances or paint a better picture of your research aspirations. I had a similar situation this past spring, and that was the advice I was given by a professor.

[Econ Grad School]

The issue I see with going after the PhD is that I'm not sure about my qualifications. I did well as an undergraduate at an unranked state school (3.5 GPA at Illinois State University). My GRE is partly good (800 Q), partly mediocre (560 V), and partly bad (4.0 AWA). My biggest issue, though, is my lack of math courses (I took Calc 1 and 2 as a freshman - back in 1999-2000). Looking at most programs, I will need to make up a lot of math work (linear algebra, differential equations, real analysis, etc.). Also, I have no econ papers published or history of working in econ research.

It seems that the PhD programs focus more on the math classes taken and work history. While I'm not going to Harvard, MIT, or U of C, I'd imagine that my deficiencies would hurt my admission/financial aid chances at most top schools (hence the nerves about whether applying to lower ranked schools is worthwhile).

If this is the case, a funded masters may set you well on the way to acheiving your goals. At the right school, it would give you the opportunity to:

a.) demonstrate ability to master Economics coursework at the graduate degree level (no pun intended)

b.) ample opportunities to publish and improve your academic cv

c.) will also give you, though you did not mention this, more recommendations--which may be from professors which are better known

You have solid stats for a masters program, if you decide to go that route. I would still send out a few PhD applications though, sometimes they can surprise you--but only go if you get funding.

[Econ Grad School]

I absolutely hate business administration classes (I had B.A. as a minor as an undergraduate). There is no way that I would go MBA.

Have you researched the salary/hiring options for someone with an MS in Econ?

Are you interested at all in a PhD? The job prospects for Econ PhDs, as I understand it, are very good--both in academia and in private industry.

MBA classes might not be that bad, as I understand it you only spend your first year on the general business classes/refresher econ/macro etc...which I think you would find easy--and then you start to specialize in the second year. But I guess the difference is that you are being trained to become a manager in industry, whereas an Economics masters would be more focused on training you as a researcher and would not have such a broad application.

I would consider what would be the biggest trade off for you given your career plans, if you detest business classes so much and have a real passion for economics and research, then a doctoral degree might be worth considering.

[applying to the same program a second time]

[quote name="Louiselab

[ETS how I love thee]

Well, the good news is I called them, and they're looking into it. They said the investigation may take up to ten days. Ten days to look in a file where there is the score request I mailed them and see that I am not a woman named karla. The gift that keeps on giving .

I think wielding the monopoly over education test taking has made them incredibly lazy and intractable...

[Too Early?]

Also, wanted to add that if you send in apps early, be sure to check and make sure the schools have not updated/changed standards for their application or added a supplement at least by November. I remember one poster sharing an experience where the graduate school added a last minute supplement to the app that they had not anticipated, but were lucky to have noticed!