Boomer not Ok

Just following the whole Marshall contretemps thing, the other side of it is that it's worse (IMO) not to apply and go through the next year or life wondering "What if...?"

Wondering whether the Syracuse letter mentioned anything about "record high" amount of apps this year. I think it's been established this year produced an abnormally abundant harvest for MFA programs to cull from, so interested whether Syracuse corroborates this.

Yes. it sure does. Especially as other folk seem to be getting responses. As far as I can tell with NYU from past reports, they seem to use a graduated notification process: full fellowships 1st, then partial etc., so they may spread acceptances and waitlists over the next few weeks. I imagine they are trying to lock in as many seats now as they can for their 1st choices, but I suppose any one who is getting offered a full package at NYU is waiting to hear back from IWW, Syracuse, Brown etc., which is why NYU probably spreads out notifications. Just my hunch. (Maybe Columbia employs the same tactic..?)

Anyone waiting on Sarah Lawrence and Emerson? Any news? I've applied to 11 schools for fiction (mostly Northeast/NY area programs) and only heard from 1 so far. Any more news on NYU for fiction about partial/non-funded acceptances?

I applied for fiction to Rutgers Camden, not sure if you mean Rutgers Newark though. My portal says "no decision," but since I've heard nothing from them, I suspect I'm sitting in their reject email dump pile; they just haven't hit the button yet. I'm still waiting to hear back from 10 schools...

No need for thanks, but thanks...I just think it's important to know you shouldn't be doubting yourself. While this is my first shot at applying for MFAs, I know from experience, having work published in paying pubs, BUT also so much of the same work rejected from as "good" or "higher tier" venues, there's no science to this. It's largely IMO whether what you write connects with the readers/editors, and you cannot 'control' for that. To some extent obviously the same principle applies with MFA apps, although there are other variables involved. (Of course, if your work is at the level where Granta or The New Yorker is hounding you, then this doesn't apply, but then maybe you should be teaching in an MFA, not applying for one. IMHO.)

That's great news and a wonderful accomplishment. The fact that your work went through a multiple vetting process (from initial reader to editor approval) and you are receiving payment means a lot. Well done.

I was wondering the same. I was writing quite a bit at night especially after I got all my apps in and took a short story I had published several years ago (it was on the long side, almost 8,000 words) and now it's become a novella at about 40,000 words (did this in a frenzy over about 6 weeks). I am hoping I can use it as the basis for my thesis, IF I get in somewhere. I would love to spend the next few years reworking it and doing the research to fill in some parts that require some specialized depth. I've also reworked a flash that didn't go anywhere into a short story. I figure it needs about 2 more weeks of polishing and then I'll send it out.

Nice to meet ya. I think being on the older side it cuts both ways. I think for some schools, having "older" students adds to their diversity. Different POV. Also, being older, generally, (not always) means more maturity, stability etc. OTH, I think some programs may be looking to "nurture" future writers/poets and may feel that for folks in their 40's, 50's 60's that time has passed them by (they're out of the writing game so to speak) and/or are better suited to a low-res MFA Program, writing groups, etc. Just my suspicion.

As a novice here, I hear ya. Benefit of hindsight, I think in my case, being on the older side, the biggest mistake I may have made was with my recs. I had to get them from a study group, respectable people, but not exactly familiar with my writing. I reached out to some schools about this before hand. Most said, "not a problem, 'older apps are ok', and recs are basically 'just to make sure you'll be an asset to the classroom,'" but honestly, IDK. If I do this again, I'm probably going to handle the recs differently. On another note: I watched some of the Hunter College Open House, and was surprised to learn that the program director said he thought maybe they had one student in their past who had been over 40. Program seems to have a young vibe or younger selective orientation. Also, since they pair their students with well-known writers, I looked up a couple of them, but couldn't find any published fiction writing by them (talking about current and/or recent attendees), so it's hard to know what Hunter looks for in submissions.

Nice list. I've been "looking" backwards, just finished A Separate Peace and The Talented Mr. Ripley, as they explore young "friendships", something I'm hoping to work on for my thesis. Both hold up quite well. Then, I took a deep dive into Paradise Lost, which I'd never read, but now I'm on my second run. Once you get past the 17th century "thees" and "thous," every other sentence could be a book title. (My favorite: "Which way the nearest coast of darkness lies...")

On Rutgers Camden, my portal says "no decision." But since I never got called for an interview, I think I'm out. I do not know for sure, but I suspect if they call you, you are on their short list and so you'll either get an offer or waitlist. On the other hand, I am not sure of their funding situation (I think someone indicated they got a partial-funded offer), so things may be different this year, because it's likely people who make their shortlist will also probably get fully-funded offers from other programs, so Rutgers may be doing it differently this time. Wish I could be more helpful.

On this note, if , assuming MFA departments have allowed a lot of deferrals, is there any evidence of them accepting in the 2021 cycle but offering admission in 2022? I know some colleges do this, when they get oversubscribed and/or their algorithms get hit with a black swan event

Seems like this app cycle is a tsunami cluster*ck. Deferrals, plus COVID career/priority rethinking folk (guilty of this), plus perhaps general trend back to arts (not sure about this), plus adverse COVID effect on funding for MFA departments all seem like it's working against us. Interesting to see if MFA departments will increase their seats due to increased demand or treat this as an aberration.

Hi, nice to meet you. I wrote my response on David Mitchell's Utopia Avenue, which I was reading at the time. I liked the book, but felt his genre blend of fantasy with historical fiction did not work well, not nearly IMO as well as Whitehead's Underground Railroad. But I didn't get into that comparison or criticize. Stayed positive and went a bit experimental with how the story made me conceive of a counter life for one of the characters, which may come across as hokey, crazy, or get points for risk taking...? Anyway, I was wondering how much the response piece matters, given mine may come across as trying too hard to be different. This is my first time doing MFA apps, so I have no idea when Columbia announces decisions. Hope it works out for you.

Anyone apply to Columbia? If so, just wondering what you thought about the response piece for the app. I applied to 11 schools and Columbia was the only school that requested this additional piece of writing apart from the writing submission. Just wondering how important it is.

Yes, I put down some dead white dudes (and dudettes) in my SOP. So, that's probably toasted me. But if Eliot, Melville, Woolf and Borges influenced me, I guess I thought it worth saying. Now, when I look at my SOP, I see the mention of my influences is so "TMI, extra-ish," and pretentious, so I wish I hadn't. Also, put down some philosophers who influenced me, because I think there's plenty of cross-over between fiction and philosophy. But that may have screwed me too, who knows? But, whatever, I don't try to emulate or write like Borges or Melville, I just mentioned them in the context of what themes I explore in my work (madness, conundrum of personal identity, blindness etc.). But to answer the question, I definitely listed a bunch of influences but only for the SOPs that asked for more than 500 words.

Hope I'm not one of those "stereotypical" types. Blood Meridian cast a long spell over me. But so did Egan's Goon Squad and Mitchell's Cloud Atlas. ButI know the type, the guy whose memorized Hart Crane's The Bridge and cosplays Bukowski, as though living in a bar is going to magically turn you into a poet.

Thanks, and I hope things work out for you. Yeah, I think I really blew it with the flash, because I included 3 pieces in my apps. Since I'm out of the running at UMass and probably Rutgers, this means my shot at some of the "higher tiers" I applied to is zero. Maybe a partial funded program will come through, but it's looking I'll have to revisit this process possibly next year, and then maybe go easy on the flash.

Has there been any more evidence (anecdotal or other) from rejection letters that this year has seen an abnormal amount of applicants? I know folks were speculating on this...

Thanks for your informative response and congrats on your offer. I think I may have gone too top heavy on the flash, but I considered them illustrative of both my best writing and its range, so I felt I had to present them. And they're stories; they're not vignettes. The problem is, after I included them, I was at 10 pages and could only include another short story to make the 20 -25 page submission limit for most of the apps. For some apps, where you could submit more than 30 pages, I could get the flashes in, the short story, and some novel excerpts, so, for these apps, it was less of an issue. I guess, I will know soon enough whether the gambit paid off.

Yeah, this all goes to another thing I wonder about: who actually reads the initial applications? Do the faculty actually read them all and decide, or do the initial cuts get made by the MFA grads or even undergrad CW majors? I find it hard to believe the faculty actually read each submission, when a program is getting north of 700 apps, but maybe they do. If not, it just seems to make the whole process even more subjective. I can guess all you can hope for is that your work connects with the reader, whether undergrad/grad student or faculty or both. Supposedly, the submissions are read based on a 'rubric', but I don't see how that can take the subjective element out of the equation.

Thanks. Appreciate this. This is my first time round and after I submitted, I read some articles saying stuff like "don't bother listing publication credits unless they're in top twenty lit mags or The New Yorker, Three Penny...I dunno???? For my pubs, they were in decent venues, but not exactly the cachet of Ploughshares or Tin House, so I was taken aback. Good to know I'm OK on flash and pub credits.

Wondering whether any fellow fiction applicants here submitted any flash pieces? I submitted a couple flash stories in my portfolio and now I think it may have been a mistake. Do programs "frown" on this compressed form of fiction? The only program I've seen that explicitly references flash fiction as acceptable is Brooklyn College, although none say you cannot either. I've been writing flash for a few years and the pieces I submitted had all appeared in decent online and print pubs. But after I submitted all my apps, I read it's bad MFA etiquette to indicate publication credits (is this true?), so now that may be 2 strikes... Any clarification on this appreciated