xenawins

This person made up a “test” to verify your likelihood of being admitted to a program. It involves pairing your writing with two current pieces from the New Yorker and asking someone who is unfamiliar with much literature (the mastermind of the “test” refers to this type of person as “illiterate”) to pick out the one that is different. If they pick yours, you’re not getting in. It operates on the assumption that people are published in the New Yorker based on their writing and merit alone as well as the assumption that admissions committees exclusively read the New Yorker despite the majority of them working, editing, and publishing in other journals. The same person who made up this test consistently makes up statistics about admissions rates etc. There’s been much speculation around whether or not this person is actually a writer and applying to programs. I would say they are certainly a humanist, perhaps not a writer, but they’re not in any field that would require them to know what an independent variable is. They feed on this forum being full of people who are putting their work out into the world and the vulnerability that goes along with that. Having an idea of what work is being published and contemporary literature might be constructive to your writing, but only you can decide that, and any advisor to your admissions process worth their weight would tell you to read wider than the New Yorker. Ignore whatever this person says.

I’ve heard MANY stories of people who get rejections from everywhere but, say, Iowa or Cornell. It really is so subjective, and I agree with Yellow, don’t count yourself out! It ain’t over til it’s over  

Best for me was the rejection I got from University of Michigan in 2020 letting me know that I made it to the top 15% of the applications before getting axed. Kind of bittersweet because it felt like a “so close, yet so far” type of thing, ha. 

Not at all! While there do tend to be a few superstars who get into a handful of the top programs each cycle, this process is so subjective that who appeals most to admission committees varies from school to school. Every year there are people who only get into one or two programs, but that's all it takes! Don't count yourself out yet

Also unrelated: who here was a Cornell applicant during the infamous 2020 Valentine's Day rejection? Major insult to injury. An honor to be a part of that bloodbath.

Can you please write a poem about this dream? All the Ozark I've been watching found its way into my dream last night. Not grad school related, but I thought I'd share nonetheless. I dreamt that Omar Navarro, the head of the Mexican drug cartel, was admitted to the psychiatric hospital where I'm a nurse, and it was my job to tell him he couldn't have his belt while on the unit, or cell phone, or the pile of cash and guns he brought with him. 

Hi howbizarre,
Thank you for your candid reflection on this panic-inducing limbo we applicants find ourselves in from the decision to apply to the prospective MFA programs' final decisions--however long that may be for an applicant. I'm the one who binged 17 straight hours of Netflix to "pacify my nerves." Embarrassing yes, but to my defense it was Ozark, which can suck you in like light to a black hole. I think my anxiety as an applicant is distilled by the same themes you addressed that seem to grapple with one another--Human Life versus MFA. Oftentimes artists feel they must forego raising a family because of limitations on time and resources. In the midst of mastery, no time can be sacrificed. I definitely had this mentality as an actress.
Slowly my priorities changed. By the time I hit my thirties, I knew I wanted more than a life solely devoted to artistic pursuit. I wanted a family someday. I wanted to help humanity in a more direct and tangible way. This transformation rippled through the decisions I made for my life. I took a complete 180 degree turn in my career, when I gave up acting to become a nurse. This was a huge sacrifice for me. For so long, acting was what I built my identity around. Once foregone, I felt like I'd lost the love of my life. Writing took acting's place as a creative outlet, because it could be done alone during stolen minutes between exams and clinical hours. Then when I became a nurse, that stolen time was found between grueling 12 hours shifts. 
As a result, my progression as a poet has been a slow and intermittent trajectory as I juggled my evolution as a nurse and my search for a partner with whom the dream of a family would be possible. It took about as long to find a partner as it did for me to reach a point in my writing when I felt ready to apply to MFA programs. Now, at the age of almost 38 (I turn 38 on Friday), I'm nearing the end of my child-bearing years. I know my boyfriend will be my husband in the next year or two--depending on when he finally pops that question. I know we want to try for children as soon as yesterday, because I'm running out of childbearing time.
The decision to apply to MFA programs was huge for me, but it's also compounded my anxieties and questions about whether I can have it all--whether I can do it all. All my goals are racing toward the same door, sorely late for the party. This seems to be my lot in life. Late bloomer to the end. I hope this means I die a centenarian! My dad was upset when I finally told him I applied to MFA creative writing programs, because he fears I wouldn't be able to juggle a newborn with graduate school. Then again, I come from a family of catastrophizing worry-warts. My boyfriend has been a hugely positive influence on my confidence. He seems to think I could do both, and he's ready and willing to support me financially to help make that happen. Despite his hopeful outlook, sometimes I wonder if I would be better off rejected from all my prospective programs to focus all my attention on starting a family now before it's too late.
Whether or not other forum posters and forum stalkers are faced with the same crossroad as I am, I believe this limbo blows as you so aptly put it, because the arm wrestle between human life and artistic creation is a close call for some. If one is lucky enough to be born with the God-given aptitude for artistic expression, when inspiration hits, it can feel as precious as human life, because it comes from the same beauty and pain that makes a human's life worth living.
 

Thank you for your kind, honest, and life-affirming words. I was glad to have had the chance to read your post. 

MFA vs. Human Life
I feel the need to say, with all the love in my heart, that this whole thing blows. Perhaps it's because I've never been accepted, so I don't know whether "all this" would be worth it if I were. However, I can say that when it comes to applying to MFA programs, it really takes its toll. Mentally, I mean. I speak for myself, but I assume the rest of you are also human. Anxiety, depression, self-worth, blah blah blah. There is a difference between the positive things I can tell myself about myself and how I actually feel, as related to my submitting myself and my work to be judged by graduate schools.
The unfortunate thing is that from the moment you decide to apply until Feb-April, your life is pretty much suspended—you shouldn't buy a house or get a new job or move on with your life, because, though chances are slim, you might be accepted into that dream program, and you'd have to uproot yourself, and move.
For example, I am of a childbearing age, but I have decided not to conceive human life until I hear back from these programs, because it would not be feasible to care for a small animal-person whilst also creatively writing for no money, full time. So that's pretty intense, I mean, really! In the decision between MFA v. Human Life, MFA is somehow winning over my priorities, even though I objectively value human life more. I have suspended procreation in service of this process, for which the odds are very much not in my favor. Sad. Curious!
And so I reflect: is it worth it? I think probably not, because, again, the odds are not in my favor. And yet I do it anyway.
I do feel pretty sure that for those writers accepted to learn under the wings of acclaimed authors, that will be a win. As for the rest of us. I mean, I read someone here binged 17 hours of TV to pacify her nerves? That just sucks. I'm so sorry to hear you're that nervous, and I am too. This is my third year of applying. To be fair, I have only applied to fully funded programs where I genuinely admire the faculty, so that's not a ton of schools, and maybe that makes the selection process particularly selective, but either way, this is some tough shit.
To be honest, I never thought I would post on here, though I've lurked. I can't imagine anyone applies to these programs and doesn't lurk. The last 3 years have been a slow grueling process of grinding the exceptionalist asshole out of me. Maybe that makes me a better candidate, but probably not.
As for how to survive the next few weeks, I'd suggest investing in your community. Do some service for someone in need, spend extra time with your friends, let them know you love them, and really live where you are. If you own property (grad school applicants, not likely!) do some gardening. Make your living space beautiful. That way, when you're rejected, you won't want to be anywhere else anyway. And if you're somehow accepted, you'll be sad to leave, which isn't the worst thing. That's what I think anyway.
Genuine love to all of you, who I am confident are much better than this nonsensical 1-2% acceptance rate. I hope you get in where you want to, but I believe you will go where you need to. That doesn't make ME feel better, but I am right there with you.

Yes. Sometimes this happens over the course of a day or two as adcoms call everyone, but they generally happen VERY close by. Wait lists might be sent slightly later, but rejections are almost always sent much later. Some schools will reject a bunch of people with their acceptances, and keep a few other people in "not rejected, but not waitlisted" limbo until their things go through, and reject them after that.
Some schools just keep everyone in that limbo until they fill all their seats.
However, this rule doesn't apply across genres. If Poetry is sent through, that doesn't mean that fiction has been notified yet, or even that fiction will be notified any time soon. 
But unfortunately, if a school's acceptances have been sent out for more than 24 hours, it's a pretty safe bet you're rejected, or MAYBE waitlisted, but don't hold your breath for that, since most schools do notify people if they're on the waitlist (with few exceptions)

Just got surprise rejected from Syracuse lmao, not even stressed though. Been doing a lot of meditation ?

Apparently Syracuse acceptances and waitlist notifications have gone out - 6 acceptances, 6 waitlists. Good luck to everyone who applied there!
EDIT: Information is from a post in Draft a few minutes ago
EDIT 2: These were for poetry.

Congratulations on the interview! I would also imagine (contributing my own grains of inexperienced salt) that them taking the time to interview you means that the rest of your application was promising. I don't imagine they have the additional time to interview anyone they're not seriously considering. They may also be interviewing you to get a sense of that intangible essence of "fit" when it comes to the culture of their program and how they operate. Regardless of writing talent, not everyone will be a good fit for every place. I actually appreciate the idea of interviews because it also gives -you- an opportunity to interview -them- and better decide if this is the institution you want to commit such considerable time and energy to. I'll give the interviewing advice I have offered others, just as ideas to consider (YMMV):
- ask your own questions, especially (in this instance) about funding, teaching expectations, if any, and costs not reflected or captured in the funding offered
- what about their program are they most proud of? what are the challenges/growth opportunities they see for their program?
- what have their alumni gone on to do? is their program more geared toward supporting future educators, publishing, and/or literary prestige? I imagine a lot of them might say "all of the above" but it's still helpful to get a sense of what kind of education you might receive in these different areas and align them with your own personal goals. Some programs have extensive opportunities to learn about publishing, for example, while others have a cursory one-class option once a year kind of thing.
- are there opportunities to connect with the writing community outside of the institution?
- do they provide funding options for development, such as funding conferences/trainings, international trips, and/or scholarships/fellowships for special projects.
- what can you expect regarding timeline after the interview? what do next steps look like?
- are there themes, subjects of emphasis, or specific qualifications they are considering as they build their cohort? (this could give you insight into what kinds of things/people you might see in the workshop space)
- as you are a parent, asking additional questions about university support (such as childcare on-campus) might be helpful. Also, how have other parents fared in the program? I've noticed some programs are much more holistic about the contesting demands on their students, while others (IMO) have had extremely unrealistic expectations for students, regardless of other responsibilities.
Again, congratulations and best wishes on the interviewing process!

Congratulations on the interview! I would also imagine (contributing my own grains of inexperienced salt) that them taking the time to interview you means that the rest of your application was promising. I don't imagine they have the additional time to interview anyone they're not seriously considering. They may also be interviewing you to get a sense of that intangible essence of "fit" when it comes to the culture of their program and how they operate. Regardless of writing talent, not everyone will be a good fit for every place. I actually appreciate the idea of interviews because it also gives -you- an opportunity to interview -them- and better decide if this is the institution you want to commit such considerable time and energy to. I'll give the interviewing advice I have offered others, just as ideas to consider (YMMV):
- ask your own questions, especially (in this instance) about funding, teaching expectations, if any, and costs not reflected or captured in the funding offered
- what about their program are they most proud of? what are the challenges/growth opportunities they see for their program?
- what have their alumni gone on to do? is their program more geared toward supporting future educators, publishing, and/or literary prestige? I imagine a lot of them might say "all of the above" but it's still helpful to get a sense of what kind of education you might receive in these different areas and align them with your own personal goals. Some programs have extensive opportunities to learn about publishing, for example, while others have a cursory one-class option once a year kind of thing.
- are there opportunities to connect with the writing community outside of the institution?
- do they provide funding options for development, such as funding conferences/trainings, international trips, and/or scholarships/fellowships for special projects.
- what can you expect regarding timeline after the interview? what do next steps look like?
- are there themes, subjects of emphasis, or specific qualifications they are considering as they build their cohort? (this could give you insight into what kinds of things/people you might see in the workshop space)
- as you are a parent, asking additional questions about university support (such as childcare on-campus) might be helpful. Also, how have other parents fared in the program? I've noticed some programs are much more holistic about the contesting demands on their students, while others (IMO) have had extremely unrealistic expectations for students, regardless of other responsibilities.
Again, congratulations and best wishes on the interviewing process!

Thank you for your work and all you do for the community. I'm a mental health therapist and the situation in my region is dire, desperate, and underfunded in every possible way. Your work is important and I also incorporate these themes as they have shaped so much of my life, personal and professional. Encouraging meaningful life and instilling hope remains one of the most powerful acts I think we can do as human beings. 

Thank you for your work and all you do for the community. I'm a mental health therapist and the situation in my region is dire, desperate, and underfunded in every possible way. Your work is important and I also incorporate these themes as they have shaped so much of my life, personal and professional. Encouraging meaningful life and instilling hope remains one of the most powerful acts I think we can do as human beings. 

Hello M,
Welcome and congrats on the interview! What program granted you an interview may I ask? I think it certainly bodes well for the rest of your pending decisions. At the very least, it tells you they judged your writing sample to be competitive. Granted, do take my advice with a grain of salt, the salt being that I'm offering wisdom without experience--a similar perspective as yours being my first year applying to MFA programs as well. Though, I'm not sure who on this forum would know the number of applicants a particular institution may invite to interview compared to the number of slots available in a genre. Likely, only admissions committee members of that institution know those details. No amount of scouring the internet on my part has produced that information. I assume this aspect of application decision-making would be as variable as the application itself. I myself found each application to be unique to the university and its department culture. What genre are you applying to study? What schools did you apply?
 
Best, J

Hi all- 
New here, first year applying. 
I have only applied to 4 schools so far,  I most likely have to do a low-residency program because I cannot move (kid) so I have applied to two that I could commute to and the rest will all be Low Res. I have 4 more on my list to apply to but the apps aren't due till March 1st and I am going to avoid spending the time/money if I get news of first choices before then. 
So- that said. I have only heard back from one school so far, but was asked to interview! 
My prof said that this means I am almost in—barring I don't make a fool of myself. 
I am wondering what you all think? 
Does an interview usually mean you are in/and or they are considering funding you? 
Does an interview usually mean that I can expect more interviews/possible acceptances? I am hoping this means I can hope a little harder for my first choice. 
Words of wisdom? 
Good luck to all! 
M

Thanks for the commendation. It's been a tough two years and counting. That's for sure. I love helping my community in a meaningful way. I'm passionate about what I do as a psychiatric nurse, and much of my poetry is psych related. The first book I publish will be on themes of mental illness and recovery--whenever that happens, but it's good to have clearly delineated goals.

Oof. I wish someone had given me this advice when I was working on apps. I don't have any close contact with poetry professors being so far out of my undergraduate career, so my app prep was done almost entirely in the dark. I did cite verse that inspires me when universities prompted, but otherwise did not due to SOP word count limits--Virginia Tech had by far the shortest word limit with a barrage of questions they wanted answered within such confining restraints. While I understand it's important to show a breadth of reading and familiarity of lesser known poets, I felt it was more important to reference poems that are actual favorites. As many others have mentioned, I have also fallen victim to reading and rereading my SOP/Writing Samples for different apps, and I have one positive take away. Even if I receive across the board rejections, I'm damn proud of my writing samples and SOPs. I know that I submitted the best applications I could have thus far in my writing career. Everything else is left to subjectivity and chance as you say.

@Rm714@koechophe@poem for her
@fireflystasis
Thank you all for your supportive comments. I'm sure we as writers know that words matter. They have power. This forum has been a godsend as I wait for decisions from schools. I'm used to rejection from my acting days, as well as all the submitting I do for publication. There is an added sting and weight to the rejection when you spend almost a grand on application fees. I know I will keep writing my lines of verse as inspiration hits and develop a more regimented writing practice in time--with or without an MFA degree. I'm aching for a writing community. Not many of my friends are writers. I didn't study English or creative writing in college, and I'm close to 15 years out from my first bachelor degree. I used to go to literary readings and open mics around town, but COVID has squelched that outlet for now. I think the hardest part of this month is this stagnant limbo of unknown. My boyfriend Matt and I can't make any plans because we don't know where we'll be yet come August. I guess I just have to take one day at a time, and try my best to focus on other areas of life. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for everyone on this forum as more results come rolling in. Ever grateful for this community. 

Honestly I'm just really impressed that you're a nurse, especially at a time like this, so I have to express my thanks and admiration. I feel like you're already doing 100x more meaningful work than most people doing an MFA, and you should be proud even if a bunch of admissions committees with very particular tastes don't consider your writing a good fit for the direction of their program this year. So many genuinely talented authors aren't going to make it into programs due to a myriad of factors that don't actually have much to do with the objective quality of their writing. It really is a crapshoot.

 

I'm so sorry you're feeling down. And no need to apologize for ranting, that's part of what this forum is for! Writing is a field full of rejection, many have told me that – but it doesn't take all of the pain away, it still stings. I'm sorry you've experienced rejection with other fields you loved - my teenage years were full of that, and it pushed me into a field I hated and ended up leaving (for writing, of all things)! I wouldn't abandon hope just yet, but of course it's always good to have a backup plan. If you know poetry is where your heart and soul reside, it could be well worth it to look into workshops and fellowships! That way, you still have something to be excited for even if the worst happens.

Feeling super bummed today. WUSTL was my top choice--no email. And no email from University of Oregon. By induction, I can infer two rejections so far. : ( : ( This is going to be a tough month. I kept telling people, "I'm expecting not to get into any programs," to keep my expectations low. Now that statement is all I can hear, ringing in my ears. My boyfriend keeps telling me I can't measure my talent and potential as a writer based on whether I get in, but how can I not? I poured my heart and soul into those applications. I keep binge watching shows on my days off. I literally binged on Ozark yesterday for 17 hours yesterday--I kid you not. Luckily I'm a nurse, and my 12 hour shifts are too busy to dwell and ruminate on work days. So much for telling myself to learn a new hobby during this time!
This is the third time I've applied to grad school. The first time, it was for an MFA in Acting when I was in my twenties. Back then, I got one callback, but ultimately all rejections. I only applied to three of the top schools at the time, which I realize now was a mistake. Then last year, I applied to become a Nurse Practitioner. I only applied to UT--Austin, because I didn't want to leave my hometown or do an online program for a terminal nursing degree. Second rejection. I didn't even get an interview. This time, knowing that poetry is where my heart and soul reside, I applied to fifteen schools. If I don't get into any...ugh...I don't even want to finish that sentence. Sorry ahead of time for the rant. I don't usually dumb on complete strangers I've never met.

This is great news! Fingers crossed for you that you're close to the top of that list, and it turns out you make it into the program. : )