fredngeorge

Hello, all! I'm sorry if my post read as a "Please evaluate my chances post." I certainly didn't intend it that way, and I'm definitely to a point where I truly believe that even the near-perfect application (definitely not suggesting that mine is anywhere close), even when submitted to the "right" schools with the "right" fit, still has an extremely unpredictable chance of acceptance. There are too many uncontrollable factors at play (timing, luck, mood of people reviewing your app on any given day, how many other similar candidates applied to that program that year, etc.). Definitely huge parts of this process are under our control; many other just aren't. To answer the question posed by several of you, I absolutely have tried to change/better my application between app cycles. For the curious, I've broken it down below: Attempt #1: During my first application season, I was applying with my B.A. in English from a medium-sized (not-at-all prestigious) state school. My gpa overall/major was 3.77/3.84 (magna cum laude). I had one (small/undergrad-university-published) academic paper published, had presented at one undergraduate conference, was a member of a national honors society (Alpha Chi), and had been invited to take one graduate class (Critical Theory) during the course of my undergrad study by a professor who encouraged me to apply to grad school. I had two great letters of recommendation and one (I found out later) half-assed letter. My GRE scores were 610/88% (Verbal), 670/64% (Quant), and 5.5/92% (Analytical). My GRE Subject score was 580/62%. My writing sample was an award-winning paper. My Personal Statement could have been better but wasn't awful thanks to some very helpful advice from two advisors. I applied to eight programs (nine if you include my undergrad university, which I don't because, so long as you have a B average from them as an undergrad they required no application materials whatsoever -- simply the go-ahead from the grad advisor and proof that you took the GRE - no minimum score). The eight programs that I applied to were the result of a lengthy research project I embarked upon to find universities that fit my research interests. I did not limit myself by location at all, and I applied to no ivy-leagues (some programs were more competitive than others, but I would say that I was fairly realistic -- I didn't go by rankings at all but rather almost solely by research interests). I applied to half M.A. programs and half Ph.D. programs. I was accepted to one M.A. program but chose to stay at my undergrad university because, there, I could get my M.A. while my husband concurrently got his M.S. This decision may have been the limiting factor in my future attempts, but what's done is done, and I've been encouraged that it hasn't significantly altered my chances for admittance (both by my advisors and by graduate programs to which I've applied). I contacted schools to find info on why I hadn't been accepted (not many replied), and the common thread seemed to be that I had a "distinctly undergraduate" application -- that I had not developed the skills (yet) that they were looking for. The general idea seemed to be, "Get your M.A., and then come see us again." Attempt #2: I applied as I was finishing my M.A. at my undergrad institution. I graduated with a 3.97 gpa. I also completed two years of French (something I hadn't had time to do as an undergrad). I retook the GRE: 710/98% (Verbal), 720/75% (Quant), 5.5/92% (Analytical), and 660/87% (Subject). I submitted a different writing sample, one that included more of a theoretical framework (while my undergrad paper was well-researched, I hadn't yet taken a course in theory, so it was largely analytical). I again researched grad programs and this time widened my search to include more schools (about as many as I could justify fit with and was also financially able to swing). This time I applied to twelve Ph.D. programs (again no serious "reach" schools), armed (I hoped) with a significantly stronger application (after all, I'd "fixed" the one flaw that was pointed out the time before, right? ) This time around, I was rejected from every school to which I applied. I contacted schools to find out what hurt my application this time (again, not many replied). Two programs said I easily made it through two rounds of application review but that my writing sample was less-than-stellar (not enough recent scholarship and sometimes clunky syntax -- you may have noticed, and this is especially true in my academic writing, that I have a tendency towards long and winding sentences. ). A third program replied that I had had several strong supporters on the grad committee, and had they been able to admit another student that year, I would likely have been a top consideration -- they just didn't have enough funding for their typical number of acceptances. Okay, then. Attempt #3: I had decided to take a year off because my husband had just started a Ph.D. program, we had just relocated, and we weren't sure we could take the financial burden of yet another round of applications. I was working in retail, and at the last minute, decided I couldn't take it anymore. I decided to apply to one school (Mistake? Yes. ). I had applied to this school before, it is in close proximity to where I am now, they had been fairly positive about my application the last time around, and I figured I had time to tweak the parts of my application that needed it. I spoke with two professors (one in my field and the grad student advisor) on campus at length about my previous application and my new, much-improved writing sample (no clunkiness this time as far as I know -- the professor that I spoke to in my field said of one page "I wish I had written that"). I was waitlisted, then rejected. When I inquired about anything I could do to strengthen my application in the meantime, I was told that my application was good and basically just to submit a good application again next time. (so helpful....) Since then, I'd like to say that I've done TONS to strengthen my application, but that's not the reality. The reality is that the only things I can think of to strengthen my application at this point are to publish and/or attend conferences, both of which are extremely difficult (though certainly not impossible) to do when you're not in school (with library/journal access), you're working full-time (as a secretary's secretary -- not so fun! ), and have very little money. Additionally, the sense I've gotten from programs isn't that I have all that much to improve upon (Don't worry; I fully recognize that there's always something to improve upon -- see above), but rather that I need to time things better, tweak some minor issues, just keep on submitting good applications..... I've certainly made some mistakes along the way (some changeable, some not so much). So here I go again, not really sure if this will work out any better than the times before. Anyway, that's my story. I didn't necessarily mean to post it, but it seemed that several of you were curious -- and at the very least, I hope that maybe my story will prove valuable to someone who's dealing with a first-time rejection (I know I sure could have used a been-there-made-it-through story after my first time, when I hadn't yet discovered this wonderful forum). I appreciate all the help and feedback, but I'd like to make sure you all don't think I was just posting so I could whine about myself. I remain hopeful, maybe blindly so (oh, well). I genuinely would appreciate a success story at this point -- or some commiseration if you're in the same boat (misery loves company). Also, if, after hearing my story, you're genuinely fed up with me and think grad programs will be too, I can take it -- I've got a pretty thick skin by now. And since telling someone to give up tends to be generally frowned upon among actual friends, I'd like to think I can count on the truth from some faceless/nameless/virtual ones.

Or anyone who got in after four (or more...) tries? I'm feeling a little bit like I've played this game before, and, while I'm not ready to quit yet, it would be nice to hear from anyone else who's either still playing or who has a success story to brighten my gloomy-November-weekend-application-marathon. Also, I'd appreciate any thoughts on the following question that's been nagging me: at which point do I cease to look like a person who has an admirable amount of perseverance and begin looking a bit delusional, like I just don't know when to call it a day? After five tries? Six? (god, I hope it's not three.....)

I only have a small amount of information to offer, but I hope that it will be helpful. From my understanding, what you're looking to do is definitely possible, but you would likely still need to take some courses in literature -- not necessarily in a particular period, but rather more for breadth of study. I'm sure you can find a number of programs that offer something like what you're looking for. For instance, UC Davis offers a Ph.D. in English Literature with a "Designated Emphasis" in Critical Theory, which sounds like it'd be right up your alley. Again, this isn't my area, so my specific knowledge is fairly limited, but I'm fairly positive that what you want is out there.

To be honest, it's naïve I guess, but that's not how it felt at the time -- although that's certainly how it feels in retrospect. It sort of always worked out (up to a point) that I had more to give up in order for us to remain on (somewhat) equal footing. As undergrads, I transferred instead of him because I was going to school in Santa Barbara and could afford to, whereas his transfer would have been impossible financially. With the M.A./M.S. degrees, I gave up the *great* offer for the sort-of-okay offer because he didn't have any other offer. My staying meant a degree for both of us. By the time it got to the point where I had given up and compromised so much that I was unlikely to get the kind of offers I would have otherwise, he was the only one with an offer. I think when we're young (unless we have a super influential experience or person in our lives telling us otherwise) we often imagine that love is the most important thing. It's only time and experience that help us to realize that it takes more than that to be a happy human being. Most of my decision about sacrificing by goals for my boyfriend-then-husband's goals were made by the time I was 21 years old. Now, of course, I realize I need the balance or I'll always feel unfulfilled, but in the meantime, I suffer.... unfortunately. I haven't broached the subject with my husband yet, but I'm becoming more and more comfortable, personally, with the possibility of relocating (temporarily) in order to accomplish my goals. I feel fairly certain that I have good odds of being accepted into the right program, and if I'd been ready to move on this year, I might have been. I'm just hoping my husband understands that my decision isn't ultimately a choice between him and school -- it's just a choice for myself, pure and simple.

You may need to contact them if enough time goes by. I applied to their M.A. Lit program in 2008, and I never heard ANYTHING back at all. No acceptance, no rejection, no "sorry, we forgot you." They e-mailed me once to let me know my application was complete, and I never heard back again. Fortunately for me, this program was one of my last choices, and by the time I would have needed to seriously look into it, my plans for my M.A. had already been finalized elsewhere. Hopefully they get back to you, but if you're starting to get antsy (and based on my own prior experience), I'd e-mail or call at least to find out where they are in their review process. Best of luck to you!

Thanks I definitely get angry about the decision that I made. I'd like to say that I'm only angry at myself, but basically the only human being I have to direct my anger at is my husband -- so that's where it goes lately. I think that if things had turned out differently (if I'd gotten into ANY program) it wouldn't feel the same -- the regret only stems from what I perceive as a completely lost opportunity. As it is, I feel like I gave up my dream for his dream. Ultimately anger or depression or wondering "What if?," though, is essentially pointless -- a completely circular exercise. So while those emotions are something I often indulge in, I am constantly trying not to. My goal now is to try to move forward in whatever way I can. I think I'm beginning to come to terms with the fact that I have to at least think about widening my application pool next time. Living long-distance from my husband would be next to impossible. BUT living this way -- with him pursuing something he enjoys and cares about while I do nothing but bemoan my poor life and lost dreams -- isn't doing wonders for our relationship either. We did the long-distance thing before (we've been together since high school and I went away to school for a year after graduation -- That's a whole other story, but I gave up a huge scholarship at a better undergrad institution in order to move back so we could stay together then too), and we survived that, so I at least know we are capable at that much. And if we could do it as teenagers, it should be that much easier now that we're adults, right? Anyway, I can totally empathize with you on this situation. It's utterly depressing to look back and realize you may have sacrificed a part of yourself for someone who may or may not have done the same for you. While you've still got regrets, your attitude towards the future is something I definitely envy. Best of luck to you!! Congrats on deciding to move forward -- hopefully eventually your regrets will all be in the past, too!

I definitely agree with the posters who said that it's hard when professors give you hope ("You'll definitely get offers from at least a few schools!"), and then you're rejected from everywhere! I understand also that, as a previous poster said, the game has changed since most of these professors applied themselves -- more people apply and there are fewer positions and less money to go around. Still, false hope is the worse kind -- I'd rather have a sort of damp reality presented so that, if something good happens, it's that much better! This is my third round of applications. I was rejected everywhere twice (a total now of almost 20 times). This time around I'm more limited by location, and I (stupidly) only applied to one program. I've heard nothing, but acceptances and waitlist notices have already gone out for a number of applicants -- and last year I didn't hear from this school until May!! I feel your pain, fellow applicants. Hopefully it doesn't take you 3+ times to get in. Hopefully we all hear something good in the final hour (or sooner, if the universe decides to be kind to us). Hopefully everything works out for all of us eventually. P.S. I only just found this forum this week, and I love being able to communicate people struggling with the same things that I am. Thanks for being there, and thanks for sharing!

I don't know if anyone is still posting on this thread, but I'm hoping someone will be able to relate/make me feel better. After graduating with my B.A., I got married a month later. I put off applying to an M.A. program for one year because my husband hadn't quite graduated (he had one quarter left). My B.A. is in English, and his B.S. is in Biology. Our goal was to both hopefully attend graduate programs -- ultimately get our Ph.D.s. We both applied for multiple M.A./M.S. and Ph.D. programs for Fall 2008. I was rejected from four Ph.D. programs, but I was accepted to two M.A. programs (WA State U and U. Nev. Reno) with offers of full funding with teaching assistantships as well as being accepted to the small program at the Cal State where I got my B.A. (no funding, as the program was too small). My husband was rejected from each program to which he applied except for the M.S. program that was started at our Cal State that same year. I felt that it would be unfair/selfish to accept either of the amazing offers that I had received (even though WSU had been my second choice of all 8 programs to which I had applied) in light of the fact that we could both get graduate degrees if we stayed put. It was one of the hardest decisions that I'd ever had to make partly because the small program offered none of the pluses of the other programs (faculty with my research interests, any amount of prestige, etc.) and was basically an uncompetitive program designed to help high school teachers get a pay raise. I felt that getting my M.A. at my Cal State would significantly weaken my chances of being accepted into a Ph.D. program in the future. But how could I ask my husband to give up on grad school (for at least a year, possibly altogether) by moving to WA? As we completed our Master's degrees, I retook the GREs (general and lit.), significantly raising my scores, and crafted a much, much better writing sample and SOP. We both applied to Ph.D. programs again for Fall 2010. I applied to eleven programs. My husband (despite my urging to apply to a range of programs to increase our chances of being accepted into programs in the same region) refused to apply to anything but programs that fit his very narrow and specialized area of interest. He applied to two programs -- UCR (which was his top choice and to which I applied even though their program wasn't a particularly good fit for me) and UC Berkeley (which was one of my top choices -- unfortunately he decided halfway through the application process that he couldn't stand the adviser and probably wouldn't want to attend even if accepted). I was devastated when I was rejected from all eleven programs. My husband was accepted into his top/only choice, so now we've moved so that he can attend. My plan would have been to keep applying until I was accepted somewhere, but I've (so far) been unable to confront the possibility of relocating for several years and living apart from my husband to do so. This year I applied (stupidly, I'm beginning to think) to only one program -- the only program for which I would not have to relocate. I've heard nothing, but acceptances and waitlist notices have already gone out. My frustration/bitterness has only been compounded by the fact that I have been unable to find permanent work -- of any kind -- in the six months since we've moved. I've struggled with this whole situation a lot. The frustrations of grad school are huge enough without adding in a significant other -- and adding a significant other who also has dreams of grad school may make the whole thing impossible. I'm hoping to work this all out, but in the meantime it's been helpful for me to find this site and see that there are a lot of other people struggling with the same things -- it's not exactly that misery loves company, but the company does help. So, thanks for keeping me company... I hope that everyone is able to resolve their grad school and relationship woes. Unfortunately, from my own experience, I know that it can be just as hard to be the one in the position of dragging a significant other around or to be the one being dragged. Best of luck to everyone!

I've never posted anything before -- only just discovered this site. In fact, I don't think I've ever posted on an online forum before. I sort of stumbled upon this site just yesterday when I was googling to find out if people had heard back from schools yet. It's weird that I never found this site before, actually, considering this is my third round of applications to Ph.D. programs. I applied to eight graduate programs (four M.A.s and four Ph.D.s) when I finished my B.A. (with a 3.77 gpa, 70-80 percentile gre scores, and a 55 percentile gre lit. score) and was fairly quickly rejected by all but one Master's program. Fortunately my husband was able to complete his Master's at the same school (in Biology). It was depressing the first time around, but at least I knew that I had two more years of school, another degree, and lots of work that would go into preparing me for a second round of applications (I retook the GREs and significantly raised my scores). After completing my M.A. (with a 3.98 gpa, 90-95 percentile gre scores, and 85 percentile gre lit. score), I applied to eleven Ph.D. programs and was rejected from each one. It wasn't easier considering the fact that my husband (with significantly lower scores) applied to two programs and got accepted into his top choice with full financial aid. (Maybe I should have gone into the sciences? haha) Now, unfortunately, I'm more limited by location. We haven't been able to bring ourselves to discuss the possibility of living separately while completing our Ph.D.s, so I (maybe stupidly?) only applied to one program this time around -- but I live close-by, and I really tried to communicate with the department and the faculty members to increase my chances of acceptance. I'm fairly certain that all of this program's acceptances have been sent out, and now I'm really stuck. I haven't been able to find work since graduating -- I was teaching while finishing my Master's, but moving (and losing all the connections I built while living in one place) and the budgeting in my state (basically the fact that NO ONE is hiring) has left me with little possibility for finding a teaching job (to be honest, teaching composition is pretty much one of the last things I want to do anyway). I've really branched out in my job search, and in six months, I've only worked as a minimum-wage, part-time, seasonal retail employee and had a brief three-week stint as a private SAT tutor. There are other careers I can see myself pursuing if it came to that -- but not truly enjoying. What's difficult at this point is that it seems inevitable that I will have to relocate (at least temporarily) in order to even potentially attend a Ph.D. program (if I could even ever get in) or pursue ANY meaningful career, while my husband finishes the next 4-5 years of his program. I know the economy sucks -- but I can't even get a sucky job. I'm frustrated and depressed beyond anything because I don't really know what to do to strengthen my application at this point. The only thing I haven't done is attend conferences, but like some other posters, I'm discouraged about my ability to do so. I feel so much that these rejections from programs must speak to my weaknesses as a scholar ,and I've started to feel that what I've written (in spite of a lot of positive encouragement from faculty mentors) would be unsuited for presentation at an academic conference. Anyway, to all the other rejects, I feel your pain -- it's nice to know I'm not alone!! ...... Although I will say that all the perky posts by people who have been accepted into multiple programs kind of make me want to crawl into bed for about a week. If any of you know anyone who has been accepted on the fourth or fifth time around, I'd love to hear from you!! P.S. I'm sorry to complain so much -- this message board struck me as a good place to vent, but reading over my post, I realize that's pretty much all I've done.....