fullofpink

What aspect of non-western art are you interested?

Also, a note about internships - becoming a docent is a lot easier than becoming an intern usually and the training is very laid back (mostly because they know they are training people who have an interest in art but do not have an in-depth education or background in it). i received my internship without school credit although you may need a recommendation from the faculty. Also, many internships (not just ones that are paid) require a statement of purpose and in it you should emphasize that you want to do research work. This will look much better on an application rather than just being a docent who does no research whatsoever. Just a suggestion.

When you say get a job in an art gallery - does this mean your interest is in contemporary art? Most galleries are actually not hiring right now and most jobs in the "art world" are now through internships that are volunteer-based only and most are up to the discretion of the person you wish to work under. In school did you take any art history classes? Most graduate schools require between 12-20 credits (average is 16) in art history classes before they consider you an worthy candidate who knows what they want. You do have the option to attend more university classes in art history and build a repertoire with your professors who will write you awesome recommendations. Also, if you satisfy this minimum requirements the schools may require you to take even MORE undergraduate art history classes (at a grad level price) before they even enroll you in an upper level course. The language requirement is kind of a dilemma. Most universities want you reading a full language with dictionary within the first two years of grad classes before taking the SECOND foreign language final. Also, they do not stress speaking as much as reading so unless you really think overseas internships are going to benefit you (also, note, that it has become INCREASINGLY hard to get a visa for international work since the economy is so poor). Also, if you are interested in American art, an overseas job/internship really isn't going to do much (that is, if you live in America). Many of us applying to grad school haven't had a top level internship with places like the Met or the Smithsonian so while that will make you more competitive, it will be really hard to receive it in the first place. If you want a strong application these are some (easier) suggestions: 1) get an internship that will correspond with your interests 2) make sure you have enough art history classes (and should be relevant) 3) work on a paper to submit as a writing sample 4) figure out what program you want BEFORE you consider the convenience. Even if you wanted to go in the spring at U of Arizona, if you aren't interested in ANY of their professors interests (lets say that they all study precolumbian and you are interested in picasso) you wouldn't be accepted anyways. Relax, breathe and you will do fine

My school's library had it, only because the professors requested it ordered. I'm sure the budget has already passed so it may not be possible to order it before next year for your school, but this could be an option to ask them about. Most professors BELONG to the caa and your department's DGS may own it for reference. Also, just to know, my library only has it as reference and it can not be ILL, so just check your area's websites. Also, it's really only good to see how many applicants a school can take, how many are offered admissions and how many are offered funding. It also helps to know what professors are tenured vs. adjunct. It gives useful information but it may not be helpful.

Thanks guys! I've been developing an interest in Courtauld but I can't decide if it would be better for me to pursue a MA in Art History, or in curating the art museum. Decisions!! Also, I'm really familiar with Nina Kallmyer's work, I just didn't know what university she was at. Thank you for the info!

Hey Mims, a few questions: 1: did you receive any type of funding obtaining your MA abroad? 2: How long did it take you to receive your degree? I'm gonna say less than a year? 3: Would you mind stating what institution you went to? If not, I understand. I've started to develop an interest in studying abroad for a MA with some stipulations, especially in the case of funding. I'm pretty positive that I can enter into a PhD program and if so, then I should expect at least a little funding so the idea of going for a MA is a bit daunting esp. without funding and abroad. I think I would really enjoy the challenges of learning a new system and having an entirely new experience. Thanks!

That's a reaaaaaaaaaally good observation georgica! I had never thought of that, and I can definitely see that as an appeal for those who wish to do that. Thanks!

Lol. I was scared someone was going to ask me this - that's why I'm being a bit broad. Right now, I'm really interested in the intense period between 1770s-1830s France. Collection practices in France took a spin in the 1780s and after the fall of the ancien regime the entire system changed, again, and then transformed AGAIN after the Restoration. I really like Neoclassicism and the difficulties that it faced as time progressed over the 19thc (i.e. Impressionism). Also, 17th and 18th century French art has a lot of adaptations and commentary from Netherlandish art. I think it's really important to know ALL aspects. HOWEVER, I'm also studying English sporting art right now and that will be my slight obsession for the next half year, and I've been dabbling in some 19th c. photography and looking at Watteau. Although I haven't mentioned any American work but American art is really close to my heart especially since everything about it was so different from what was going on in Europe until the late 19th c. I'm a cultural nerd. I'll end now; it only gets more complicated. LOL. Right now, I'm looking for anyone that does Neoclassical (in the least) and possibly people who dabble in 18thc. They are so rare.

I'm an undergrad at VCU and I will tell you, Richmond is a small city/big town. In the city limits (because at times, Richmond just sprawls into the suburbs which tend to have the same names as Richmond districts. Examples: west end inside the city is where the millionaires live, but west end outside the city limits is Glen Allen where a major mall, and businesses are, etc.) Richmond has a few key areas: The Fan (where VCU is located smack dab on the edge of), Oregon Hill, Northside, Jackson Ward, Carver, Museum District, Monroe Ward, Downtown, Shockoe Bottom, and Church Hill. Location wise: The Fan (VCU) and Monroe Ward are in the center of the city. The Fan is located on the Western side of VCU and Monroe Ward is located on the eastern side. The Fan is a completely residential district mostly filled with students and moderately wealthy families and VCU professors. Rent in the fan can span $240-800 depending on how many roommates you want and what level of decency you go for. Currently, an apartment I live in on Monument avenue ("the prettiest street in the South") with 4 other roommates is a $320 rent/mo. However, you can esily find two bedrooms at 750-800 a month. Most one bedrooms will run you about $650. Property companies that you SHOULD NOT rent from are River city, Dickson, and Virginia Lee. The thing about the fan is that most of the apartments are actually renovated early 20thc. townhouses - so there has not been TOO much renovation to change the place. A lot of apartments run on radiator heat, are incredibly drafty, and furnances, water pumps, electrical outlets seem to go down quite often. Most rental companies are really crappy about maintenaince in the fan. Regardless of what anyone says, there has been an increase in campus crime lately and this generally extends to the Fan. I have had someone come into my fan apartment one night while I asleep and although nothnig was stolent it is a possibility. Also, the fan is loaded with resturants and bars and small galleries. VCU and Richmond are really an art center moreso than a sports, action place - if you want those things you have to go elsewhere. Monroe Ward is the Fan's gentler sister. This area comprises of the Broad street which is the new up and coming art galleries and centers. Also, this is where you will find a lot of students live in high rises. The general cost of livnig here, whereas you get free parking (sometimes), amnenities included, and guaranteed working electricity and heat and water but the cost is about $100 more. Rent here is about 800-1000 two bedroom. 700+ for one bedroom. However, it's a safer area (as long as you stay on Franklin and not on Main or Grace) and much more quieter than the fan where I've heard noise from parties that was more than two blocks away. I really enjoyed this area, but it has a much more "downtown" feel than the fan. A lot of medical students live here because it's just on the busline to MCV. Which turns into a 10 minute ride to MCV. Oregon Hill has housing that is smaller than the fan, but it is a LOT cheaper and run down. You can expect housing to be 200-600 typically. Carver is north of VCU and is trying to rejuvinate its image. Rent has been steadily increasing ni this area, but its really sparse and the only food here is by the Kroger which is no more than 4 blocks away. Jackson Ward is known as "Dangerous" but its crime has gone down since students and families have been moving into the area because its cheap. You can RENT an entire townhouse for 800-900 dollars while in the fan that's just for an apartment on one floor. It's a bit dodgier than the other areas and is a bit more unsafe than even the fan, but it's still a nice area to look at. It's directly north of Monroe Ward and you still have access to all the cultural events like First Fridays (which are the art walks the first friday of every month. Big thing). Museum district is west of the Fan and it has the Virgnia Museum of Fine Arts and the Virginia Historical Society located there. Big, fun museums that are world-class establishments. Also, there is Carytown (A cute shopping district), groceries and resturants out there. It is about a mile west of the school which is a bit of a trek or a 15 minute bike ride (bikes are big down here) but doable. Rent goes about 650-800 two bedroom which will probably be newer and bigger than the Fan. Grad student housing is more expensive than living off campus, this is including adding a ridiculous meal-plan (Shafer is honestly the worst food anywhere. It is terrible) and utilities. It's super cheap to live off campus, especially with a roommate. Also, VCU has 32,000 students and only has a limited number of housing so off-campus will be your best bet. If you are a Med student and will be working mostly at MCV campus, Monroe/Jackson Ward will be your best bet. VCU has two different campuses ("Main" campus and MCV - Main is for all academic studies except for the School of Medicine or Forensics). Also, you could try church hill. Church hill is the most eastern part of the city and it's generally safe. Also you can rent nice (nicer than Jackson Ward even) townhouses for 800-900 out there, but you may need to bike or drive to MCV since it will still be a (hilly) trek. Church Hill is across a valley to MCV. Lemme know if there are any otehr questions! Also, if you opt for Grad student housing you may end up livnig on MCV campus if you are an Academic student - therefore you'd have to endure a 30 minute busride (including wait time since it's not on set time) each day to get there and back. Not fun. From monroe/jackson ward you can at least walk some days.

I also suggest this time around that everyone put into their signatures what specialty they are in/look for. I think it helps everyone and it doesn't require you to keep saying "I'm interested in modern Chinese/Warhol/Mideval Manuscripts from Russia..." etc. The list I was providing is just a general list of what schools are generally recognized. I think a lot of schools often go unnoticed because people don't think to even look there. I started out by researching schools in like, Alabama (first state in the alphabet) and found most of them possibly completely useless. A lot didn't offer masters, and if they did the program looked really weak - maybe a school gallery with a few prominent names but nothing in regards to a major museum, excellent library collection, travel possibilities, etc. What *I'd* really like to see on the list of school's I've never heard of that seem awesome (I just recently heard of courtauld, for example) that does not require me to dedicate 40 minutes on wikipedia to find. lol. Not only that, but my subject area isn't really a "popular" subject right now so finding ANY interested parties is tough and I'm not opposed to going to a smaller school for a PhD/Ma if I get a better chance at funding.

I don't know what I'd call Tier 1/2/3 - I mean, most people think Ivy League is all Tier 1 but I found Cornell's Art History program to be the weakest of the bunch and a program like NYU IFA to be MUCH better than it. I think the most competitive programs are in Tier 1, you know the ones that everyone really really wants and some think that are just a bit too far out of reach. Here are some of my ideas; I like the idea of a list. Tier 1: Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, UC Berkeley, UM Ann Arbor, Upenn, NYU, WUSTL Tier 2: Northwestern, John Hopkins, UCLA, UChicago, Williams, SUNY, Tier 3: Most state schools that offer a Phd (not if they only offer masters), Penn State, Duke, UMD, Georgetown, UW, Texas schools, ... Ones I'm not familiar with at all (mostly because they don't have strong professors in my region) Tufts, Rutgers, Courtrauld (does it have a great reputation?- I think so)

Actually, for some programs (esp. 5 year PhD programs that offer masters in the second year) I can see already holding a masters as a deterrent. Many of these programs seem to gear undergrads for their strict line of study and it seems to be a worse deal for people with their masters. For instance, some of these phd programs are five years with strict guidelines and they talk about master applicants as an afterthought. Most students spend two years on a masters, but are only granted one year residency (if) in a phd program. And, I've seen many people with masters being rejected and I've seen many with only BAs accepted. If you have a strong application, you should feel confident!

I know this is late, but Harvard, on their phd track, has a qualifying paper, not a "thesis", option regarding the MA.

Thanks ne! The advice I was given was to just "specialize" in a field. Going for a museum studies certificate/diploma/whatever would be pointless if I were to become a curator since those geared to people who want to work in a museum, not really curate (i.e. registrar). I wonder who this "curatorial" degree is intended to be held by. I know that on a higher level in the museum, like Directors, that just knowing collections isn't going to do it for you - they are looking for people who also have experience in business. I'm also hesitant to spend 5 years JUST training to be a curator, however some of the programs I've looked at with this certificate enables you to actually work side by side with curators in the museum - it is mandatory. So no process of applying for an internship, etc.,because you are already guaranteed one. Also, if most of the classes focus on aspects that aren't art history (exhibition design, management 101, etc.) then when do you specialize in art history? I know you don't know this ne, I'm just tossing the questions into the air Do you want to be a curator? Or is there another level you'd like to obtain Ne?

This will be difficult since almost every school has a department on post-war/contemporary. What may help is figure out an artist who you REALLY love, or a movement, and find through the art bibliography modern people interested in your topic. I've found some crazy professors who like what I like in smaller schools I've never heard of but I'm sure would be interesting to attend. Another thing I did was just go to wikipedia and look for a list of universities per state and just check them off (this is easy since a lot do not offer a grad program, or even Art history). I had a good friend of mine tell me, she's in her 3rd year on a Phd track, that attending an ivy league or whatever does not really matter since getting your PhD already puts you in a small category of specialists. I've taken that advice to heart.

I've started on my list a long time ago, am on the fence about which program I want to do (a fun masters or just shoot for Phd?), and those stupid GREs. I'm 1700-1900 European/American paintings with a special interest in collections and the history of the museum. You can imagine the difficulty of THIS search. haha. It sucks because the professors at my alma mater are interested in the same topics I am but my DGS told me I'm not allowed to apply there. lol. I already know some professors at top tier schools I'm interested in, but I'm also interested in some MA specific courses of studies like Williams and Courtauld. Also, I refuse to go to school in the South so most of the schools I look at are in the Northern part of the country across the border Maine -> Seattle. This is going to be an interesting process. right now, how many schools do you think you will end up applying to? I'm hoping to narrow down to 8.

Personally, I'm on the fence whether I would like to be a curator or not. I'm pretty sure I'd love to go into a museum career, however I'm not opposed to teaching. I know there are very few curators who have actually done both (despite the professors who "guest" curate) and although I'd love to fit into that small margin I know it's based more on chance and luck than skill and perseverance. I've noticed that many schools are offering a "curatorial certificate" while others offer PhDs specifically incorporating a curatorial track. I also know that many curators today have just their Phd. Is anyone on this forum currently pursuing a C-phd? Or is thinking about doing one? If anyone feels the need to offer advice on my judgment, I just want to make note that I will not be applying until next year and that I've been working directly underneath a curator of an excellent, mid-size museum. I'm familiar with museums, but I'm not familiar with what type of education the Curatorial tracks entail. I know they include classes like "management" and "exhibition planning" and such, but I'm more interested in what is being expected in regards to art history classes and art knowledge. Thanks!!

I don't know who asked the question regarding the Phd vs. MA. I spoke with my department DGS about this specific situation just a few weeks ago and he explicitly told me to go straight for Phd, not MA, for a number of reasons, #1 (of course) being funding. Most MAs aren't funded, as we all know. However, he also stated that it looks better once you complete your schooling to have that Phd track, not a separate MA and then Phd. What his general opinion was that if you are accepted into a Phd program from undergrad, they kinda/sorta walk you through the process of researching (such as what the Abroad MA people were speaking about - it completely warps your view). Not only that, but some of the Phd tracks I've looked at say you HAVE to complete your masters eligibility before they even consider you "seriously" for the Phd track. Like, you have to submit your materials, make sure your GPA is right, and that you have your professors approval before you can honestly head towards your Phd. Another reason why he suggested doing the Phd track, getting your MA in the process, is that he suggested beginning your thesis in order to help your dissertation. His school, JHU, didn't require him to do a thesis and he feels like he certainly missed out on a great opportunity to research for his dissertation. What the Abroad MA people have said is considerable, but I mean, this could possibly be any kind of MA track program around. They are just specifically stating their lessons learned, although it is "different" from the norm - they are abroad while others are in the US. The MA, anywhere, is a different level of study and dedication than a bachelors - I'm sure everyone's experience truly is slightly overwhelming, difficult, and a new way to conduct research. Another thing my DGS stated is that if you apply, and succeed, to a Phd track it shows your commitment and dedication, which reflects much more positively on you when applying for jobs after your education. His major concerns were the effects of doing the track, not necessarily what the track entailed (esp. since every school is different). i hope this helps? Also, I suggest everyone to at least sit down with their own school's DGS (Director of Graduate Studies), even if he/she doens't teach undergrad classes. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to qualm any fears or answer any basic questions. Also, as I found out, it also gave me clarification on what departments look for in students.

Thanks! I remember reading somewhere that a 1300 was the minimum of acceptance, I can not for the life of me remember where, but at least this gives me a ballpark figure! I truly appreciate it!

I have two questions, and if everyone would be cooperative, that would seriously be fantastic! 1) In your signature area would you mind putting your area of concentration, and what type of degree you are applying for (or if you already in your program place that in there)? You can be as specific, or non-specific, as you like. From what I've gathered most people here are applying for a Phd, and many of you are in Modern/Contemporary and/or Asian. I could be completely wrong, there are 16 pages here. That would seriously be awesome! That way, when we you say "I got accepted into school A, B, C!" it just allows us to know immediately what for! 2). For everyone who was accepted (with or without funding, I'm not sure if most know yet) into an Ivy league program, would you mind posting your GRE scores? If it's too invasive, I completely understand. I'm just trying to see at what level they are expecting . Thank you!!

Remember, you still have four more!

Oh! found something: here's a version of that Princeton thing. It's not the same as what I was stating (which was a .pdf), but here it reminds about "funding" issues, especially in the case of dependents. However, they have a whole other page devoted to family oriented programs: http://gradschool.princeton.edu/studentlife/childcare/. I still can't find that original .pfd. I think they deleted it since they "offered" full funding. Also, a woman who is above the average age with lots of teaching experience may be less of a risk compared to some fresh graduates who are entering grad school since they just want to "try it out" or are not sure what to do (I'm not saying anyone here is like that), annnnnd I know some people who have slid into some great programs just "trying it out." Ugh. About the family issue, I was just wondering if that may be the case, however if it isn't, that's superb. I can't recall what other schools pregs applied to, but they may be considering the distance thing. Who knows? Without really knowing your credentials, or who else applied and what talents they had, there seriously is no way to know. bob, I realllllly don't want to argue. I don't mean to be callus or anything, I was just asking if that was a possible reason. Clearly, it's not. But you should remember that all factors ARE considered in this case. Some programs may get 150 applications with 5-7 slots. It's a tough, tough decision. Anyone who applies is always susceptible to being discriminated in some way - "deemed" unfit for a variety of life reasons. Thanks to Malcolm Gladwell, Harvard gets 27k applications for its undergrad, 3,300 with perfect SATS and another 3,300 who were the valedictorian and so on, and only accepted 1,600. People get cut off for any number of reasons and commitments to other things might be the problem. Honestly, it's a terrible method, NONE of us would agree to it, but that is what we accept. First its them picking us, then if we are selected, it's us picking them. Nasty little game. However pregs, I really am happy for you. What schools are you applying to again?

Hey pregs, I know I'm new to the forum, but I was particularly interested in your situation. My recent internship (where I often end up staying after-hours) at a museum has allowed me to chat with a bunch of the curatorial staff. One stopped me one day and told me immediately "Get married young! 70% of the staff here are single!" Haha. I was thinking about it for a bit, I mean, not jumping the gun and getting married, but what the art history station of life does for people. I know most of my professors and professional-acquaintances (outside the dealing trade) are single, and their social lives revolve around their career. The curator who encouraged me to get married young explained that they had no weekends, frequently traveling and had to host a variety of people for social functions often. I honestly can't think of my professors/acquaintances I know who aren't doing something all the time for their job. I reaaaaaaally hate to the be bearer of bad news, and I HATE even more that I'm going to suggest that this may be the reason, but it could be that people aren't interested in your applications is that you are 1) married and 2) having a child. I reviewed Princeton's website last year regarding graduate admissions and it stated, or rather, warned, something to the effect that being married or having small children is detrimental to your application - I think it regarded the financial commitment. Since Princeton now offers full funding for the 5 years, I think they have removed this document, but this may be the case. I'm not sure how old you are, and since you have been teaching for a few years I'm going to guess that you aren't the average 21-22 year old, but it could come off that your focus is on family, not study, and that may be an issue. The first year of your child's birth is going to be a time commitment like no other! Dealing with the pressure of graduate school + newborn is something the committees may have concluded wouldn't work. However I can't be positive. I mean, this may have not even been information you have given out, or maybe if showed up in a finance report (I don't know), but if you applied only to schools near your husband's job you seriously limited your chances. And if you had to put this information down and would therefore be separated from your husband the first year of your newborn, I'm sure they considered it. You asked for a suggestion, I'm not sure if this is what you were hoping for. It could be other things, simply "We aren't accepting graduates studying her field" but this may be something to chew on and accept. I think you are incredibly fortunate to have a family, and I wish you all the best! Congratulations of your pregnancy and all your good fortune!