
sciencegirl
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Everything posted by sciencegirl
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@tripwillis.. I'm applying into a different field, but this was discussed on our forums. Apparently, every department at Yale arts and sciences needs to call/skype and conduct an interview with the students they want to admit before they admit them. I wish someone had told us about this so as to not give us false hope... so you would get a phone call or e-mail setting one up before any of the formal admissions/rejections happen from Yale: http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2012/jan/11/grad-school-divided-over-interviews/
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That's great advice... thanks so much for the summary and finding that online resource.. I hate it when I see a book I want to read but can't access it right away. Thanks @faculty for pointing this stuff out. So the main lesson here is, go to your department's holiday party and bond with your department!
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Hey all, I saw this on another forum, loved it. It's advice for those of you going to visit upcoming programs at admit events:
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Hey - I think some admissions decision went out early already: And I think a few others posted in the acceptances/rejections thread... not sure if they are holding onto an informal wait list or if they are just torturing everyone and not rejecting people they know aren't in... (Arrggh... why do the schools do that???)
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@faculty... I'm assuming you read Lovitts's work? What does she say about this issue? Why do so many graduate students not finish? Not all of us have $40+ dollars to get a used copy or access to a library right now...
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@Chuck.. no ungratefulness here.. Just wondering if you had the older data set.. the interesting thing is that it seems like all the schools have a decently sharp attrition rate... 50-60% graduation rates across the board using your metrics.. and in reality, this doesn't surprise me. I heard some shocking tale of a cohort from one of the top publics, where only 5 of the original 20 cohort that entered ten years ago had graduated...
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@maximus... yeah, why I suggested that a better way to look at it would be to try and get the years as closely to match up in when the come in and then when those same people leave.. say, look at incoming between 1998-2002, and then outgoing from 2002-2006.. arguably though, you would want a spread that is more around 6-7 years as that seems to be more accurate as to how long it takes a cohort to graduate (if they do)... so better for something like average incoming from 1995-2002, then average phDs granted from 2002-2009.
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Thanks so much for all your work on this! One flaw would be that you are comparing sets of times that don't correlate... would you be able to easily do it where you look at numbers incoming from say 1998-2002, compared with outgoing 2002-2006? Sad how schools just don't report this number as part of their USNWR ranking... I think if they did, you'd see every program helping each one of their graduate students get a doctorate no matter what (sort of how the top Ivy's make it really hard for their undergraduates not to graduate since their completion rate plays a roll in their USNWR rankings).
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@jenjenjen - yes!! why I love you! It seems that a common mistake for competitive applicants is "tiering" your schools with a "Safety school" approach.. 2 to top 10, 2-3 to top 20, and then 2-3 "Safety" - the reality is with so many people applying, "safety" schools no longer exist really - anything in the top 50 I would say is HIGHLY competitive. Regarding application fees, I didn't qualify for this, but I wonder has anyone who is a first gen student or low income tried to get fee waivers from schools? I am sensitive to how much school application fees cost and I wonder if anyone was successful in getting fees waived? Also, the really important mental approach that my professors wanted me to understand was: "You could get rejected everywhere. Just be prepared. It has nothing to do with who you are, the amazing accomplishments you have achieved, the good you want to do in the world - for many of these schools its trying to evaluate hundreds of other people just as qualified and special as you are for just a handful of spots, so don't let rejection bring you down. It is almost always really not about 'you'."
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@gilmoregirl1010.. I'm so happy that you have that masters program! I think the lesson here is that whenever anyone says you are over qualified and you will get in anywhere, don't listen to them, even if you are super amazing. The process is really random and competitive. And thank you for your kind words - I did get accepted to at least 2 of my programs (I wrote somewhere else that they would not have been the 2 programs that I would have applied to had I only picked 2 though). And the funding that comes with the acceptances will clear off my credit card bills in September! (Someone else highlighted this, maybe @jacib in a past forum, but the $1000 investment is basically for your future and a good funding package could be worth almost $400,000 depending on the program). Also, it seems that half of the people applying now have masters degrees or some other sort of degree going into this... I think unless you are absolutely certain that you have a clear shot into a program (POI/personal connection somehow), applying to just 1-2 schools is a really risky move...
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@gilmoregirl1010 How many places did you apply to and what types of schools were they? I think the drawback to having very positive mentors is that the confidence doesn't allow for a back-up plan in case things don't work out. My mentor was perhaps the opposite - while she was very confident in my abilities, warned me how capricious the process is and there is no such thing a sure shot into any program. Any school I could see myself at and do good research, she encouraged me to apply. Hence my $1000+ credit card bill I am staring down now...
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@socioeconomist... CONGRATS!!! Is that where you'll wind up going? Did you get into the other place you applied?
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Big Name Schools vs. Lesser Known Schools/Terminal MA Programs
sciencegirl replied to lovenhaight's topic in Sociology Forum
@lovenhaight.. I do think there is too much focus from us on GPA numbers, but not on what a GPA usually represents, but 4 years of academic coursework. And then coupled with 3 letters from former professors. And then add to it that about half of us spent more time in schools in masters programs. The GPA hence means a lot more than just a number... and I think we are trying too hard to compare a number that isn't comparable among us. For instance, a 3.9 at a place like Swarthmore (notoriously known for giving low grades) means a lot more than a 3.9 from other places. If there is anything I learned from this process, is to not sell yourself short in the application process. I applied to 7 of the top 10 programs, and the results have been really really fascinating. So far, I've gotten into 2 of them, but they were not the top 2 I would have applied to if I were to limit myself to only 2 applications to the top 10. That if I were to drop that number down to only 2-3 applications instead of 7, I would probably have seen only rejections. I also did not apply to the programs for prestige reasons, but more for faculty fit, program strengths, my academic interests, and location. -
Big Name Schools vs. Lesser Known Schools/Terminal MA Programs
sciencegirl replied to lovenhaight's topic in Sociology Forum
This thread has been so fascinating and has provoked so many thoughts for me over the last few days! I wanted to bring up the idea - while maybe unpopular here in this thread - that while there is some bias in hiring from top programs, there could be some logic to the idea that given the way graduate admissions is set up, that the top schools get a larger number of students who are more inclined to succeed in academia than programs that aren't in the top 30. Of course, I am not saying an all or nothing case, but there seems to be this thinking that the students who go and got into top programs got there because of some fluke, or they were legacy, or they knew someone at the school... more than likely these students when judged by the standards of what it takes to be a professor (ability to write, critically analyze reading, converse about ideas with faculty, work under pressure) showed promise to adcoms in the admissions process. Of course there are people such as @dizzidawn who have had greater challenges to overcome (and I'm so happy you got into a program!), but for many applicants who were fortunate enough to not encounter big roadblocks, I would venture to say that it isn't like we didn't work hard. (I've always worked while in school, and yes in service jobs where people treat you like poop, working two jobs while applying to schools and studying for the GREs not from some $1k class I couldn't afford but from 2-3 used GRE books I bought for a total of $40) - and yes, I feel lucky that I always focused on school since I was a teenager. I just want to emphasize that everyone applying and going to phD programs from all tiers have worked very hard to get where they have gotten, and we shouldn't play a game of looking down on people in any "tier" and unfairly judging them. We also think that when the job market comes around, all they look at is the phD program we went to... reality is they look at A LOT of things, such as your research that you are doing for your dissertation, your publication record, your talk, your building reputation as a scholar, the connections you make at conferences. Plenty of phDs from top 10 crash and burn at this level, and there are instances where people rock up "the ladder" based on their work... in fact, I've heard of this trap where students arrive in a top program and stop working hard thinking that their school's reputation will get them a job, only to slack off and get burned in the job market... apparently, this happens a lot. -
So...is no news better than bad news?
sciencegirl replied to danielcharles87's topic in Sociology Forum
@panasic - Have you not heard back from either of the schools? Or are you just waiting on one? -
If I ruled the world!/was on an admissions committee...
sciencegirl replied to sociology27's topic in Sociology Forum
@sociology27... I totally agree with you. I think your GRE's are higher than mine and it doesn't come down to that (or I'd trade you, you know what school). It's very much US who think its such a big deal, and if we are having this tortured debate about GRE's, I'm sure cohorts 20 years ago were having it too, and now that they are in charge of adcoms, I'm sure they don't take it as seriously as we think they are. Just imagine us in 20 years! -
Hmmm... @panasic did your SO follow the grad housing lottery? The impression I got was that they really try to get you onto on campus housing - in fact, they do guarantee housing if you are willing to live in any of their dorms (this policy though might have been only started 2 years ago when they built the new grad dorms, so I don't know when your SO started), most are in the below $1000 range with some of the nicer places mostly designed for law school students in the $1300 range. I've been to Palo Alto a few times, have friends who went to Stanford, and from their feedback, I don't think Palo Alto is going to be twice as expensive as living in Berkeley. (Taxes are going to be the same for the two cities... and the 8% sales tax isn't the highest in the nation either). And yes, there is the car thing if you want to get off campus. Maybe I've been totally burned out by the grind of the big city, but the idea of staying in on campus grad housing, walking/biking around, and taking advantage of the classes, libraries, lectures, student activities, on campus gym, seems incredibly appealing - and not get distracted by a big city. Its been awhile since my undergraduate days when I did this, and I can really see myself being super academically productive if I'm put back in this environment. Different strokes for different folks. And yes, Stanford is offering an insane funding package.. think not just stipend, but extra money for books/moving expenses, conference travel, and a computer. They seem to be totally aware that people think they are expensive, and are willing to offer what I think is one of the best funding packages from any school.
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Possible connundrum between PhD this year vs Next
sciencegirl replied to Supernovasky's topic in Sociology Forum
@giacomo.. generally, R1 is thrown around to refer to a school that has both undergraduates and a graduate program, and has a decent reputation - oftentimes R1 is used to contrast a liberal arts college, which is more focused on teaching and generally only has undergrads. In R1s, your emphasis is on your research and not generally teaching, where teaching is the focus if you are at a liberal arts college. -
The other thing to think about when you compare housing costs is the neighborhood that you are comparing... there are some college towns where online you will see really inexpensive housing, but say if you are a more concerned about safety, might not want to live in that specific area alone. The way I'm doing it is mostly by just comparing on-campus housing... a friend of mine said that if the school offers it, you should really look into it.. there is something to be said about the convenience of being right next to your classes, the library.. even if you are just saving an 45 minutes-an hour each day, that's almost 5 hours during the week that will come in handy when buried in research...
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What other schools are you looking at? Also, isn't there a really high rate already as it is for all schools of people not finishing? Where are you getting your NW stats?
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@jenjenjen.. here is the chart of the housing rates for this year, and I heard something that they try to give you a spot in a place under $1000.. occasionally for some unlucky folk they can't get their top choices, but it seems that a lot of the graduate students are ok: http://www.stanford.edu/dept/rde/shs/pdfs/grad_rates_11.pdf At the moment, Stanford's offer is a good $500-1000 more per month than other ones I'm looking at, so I can't figure out what would be $500-1000 more living in Palo Alto vs. other areas.
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I spoke to a few friends who have gone to Stanford for both undergrad and grad, and they shared with me that the cost of living there is overblown. Palo Alto is a weird mix of both really high income and very low income (East palo alto)... the campus, due to its large student population seems to equalize both sides a bit. Everyone I spoke to who has gone there about the "high cost of living" says it way overblown. No where is it/could it be as expensive as say Manhattan. It's basically an upper-middle class suburb, but the cost of a lot of items of concern for students - housing, food, are fairly standardized in any location for a student if you take advantage of the housing options from the school. I was surprised that they offered places where you could have your own room for $650-900 a month.
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Well, you are living in New Haven... hahaha! Actually, I also spent some time on that site @jenjenjen mentioned and I don't think their control variables make sense for a graduate student, as on-campus housing would equalize to some degree (Stanford guarantees somewhat on campus housing, and many of their dorms are below $1000). Books cost the same, food is not going to be 100% more expensive at trader joes and the grocery store than in Palo Alto than in New Haven (in fact, produce might be cheaper)... travel to conferences depending would be basically the same depending on location of conference.. unless you have children and you are raising a family, I don't think the calculator is actually the greatest measure. The $13,000 difference between Berkeley and Palo Alto is most likely a direct result of a median home price/income calculation figured in somewhere. Highly doubtful that it will cost $13,000 more for a graduate student in Palo Alto vs. berkeley. Basically, I love you to death @jenjenjen, but common sense dictates bestplaces.net isn't the greatest way to figure out the differences in cost. (I'd be more concerned with the cost of their on-campus housing, and other things such as transportation costs etc).
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Another school is actually making a really strong push for me too and I'm balancing out a few things - but definitely leaning towards Stanford, probably 70-80% lean. I'm really trying to not let the rankings thing affect me either.. I've been reading the other thread about rankings and top-ten schools that has been flaming all up this past week and it got me really thinking. I actually feel awkward trying to weigh in on that forum as I think some people have said some a few things that I"m uncomfortable with. Maybe I'll weigh in later when I have my thoughts more gathered. (One question I was wondering if someone would pass on a top-5 program for say a top-30 program), if all else was equal, fit/advisor etc. It's also hard to get good advice in some ways since I feel weird saying, "I have a problem - I got into this amazing school with amazing funding, but I don't know where to go!" Its sounds so diva for some people, and I am wary of inciting people's feelings in this tender part of the application process on this forum). When you say "deep-seated" what do you mean by that? I actually don't have something like that, but rather, all signs - advisor/fit/funding/program, so far are pointing me in that direction, but I'm not drawn to it emotionally...
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Yes... I mentioned this to some people in PMs who were wondering.. but it's probably the best offer out there... not sure the details of places like Yale, but the total numbers easily surpass what I was expecting and anything I've seen posted so far. @socscholar - you leaning towards Stanford? or trying to feel out "fit". I was comparing the numbers to other schools' offers that I've gotten and it would be impossible to turn it down.